Cryptocurrency Mining Consumes More Power Than 17M Population Country

[cdawall]

People don't see to get that but yeah, I think a ban is impossible now. Regulation is the most that could happen.

How do you regulate a network on multiple continents are we going to try and regulate the Pirate Bay as well?

 

[R-T-B]

How do you regulate a network on multiple continents are we going to try and regulate the Pirate Bay as well?

At the point of exchange to your native currency, is pretty much the only way.

 

[efikkan]

Ethereum mining consumes more than 8x the power it takes to run the entire VISA network, while Bitcoin consumes almost 27x as much (this shows how much more efficient centralized systems are. This is the cost of transparency and doing away with the trusted third party.) Cryptocurrencies and the blockchain technology in general have come to stay, and they will change the world (I am a staunch believer in that myself.) However, this goes to show that the current Proof of Work (PoW) design is unfeasible in the long-run - especially if blockchain technology does want to achieve a global scale. Proof of Stake anyone?

To see how much more energy efficient centralized systems are we also need to consider how many transactions are processed in each system.

None of these decentralized blockchain based cryptocurrencies are scalable, both in terms of transaction count, processing speed and reliability, and in terms of energy consumtion. To apply a misused word, they simply are not sustainable in the long run as currencies. Bitcoin was originally intended to be a currency "no one" could manipulate or speculate in, instead it has become nearly a pure speculation object which none of the qualities of a currency. It's never going to be fast and reliable enough for people to use as a currency in stores, coffee shops, etc.

Where's Earth Hour when you need it..

Yes, all the lefties using ideology to argue for cryptocurrencies have never looked at the sustainability of such systems. There is not enough energy in the world to make it an universal currency.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Considering bitcoin really only accepts SHA-256 nonce hash counts on a port, no, I really doubt that. This also limits attacks on the software itself.

You do realize SHA-256 was designed by the NSA, right?

Not that it really matters. An organization could proliferate the market with machines so they become trusted then use those very same machines to destroy the blocks they come in contact with. The damage can be so widespread and prolific that legitimate nodes won't be able to distinguish the correct transactions from the destructive transactions. Think of it as a cryptocurrency black hole that grows until the entire currency is swallowed. Because there's no centralization, there's no way to stop that ball rolling once it is set in motion.

Once a cryptocurrency unit is captured and destroyed, it's gone forever. This would increase the value of exiting units initially but greed would quickly turn to fear and the value would plummet to virtually nothing. The currency is effectively dead.

Nearly everyone mining on this forum is mining bitcoin. No one however, is mining it directly and thus is being counted in this survey.

Actually, I suspect the opposite is true: only a small fraction of TPU users are mining and of those, most are only doing it casually.

What survey? Digieconomics isn't a surveying organization, it's an analytics organization.

At the point of exchange to your native currency, is pretty much the only way.

And extremely effective. If a country bans cryptocurrencies, they would have to be traded in a country that accepts them. Then they'd have to trade whatever currency they trade in for the currency of the country that you live in. Any country that facilitates that exchange is going to want to take a cut off the top (read: taxes and fees).

 

[R-T-B]

You do realize SHA-256 was designed by the NSA, right?

And that whats submitted is a text string, yes? Lets stop the silly technical debate there, we both know regulation is far more likely and effective. The question is how much is appropriate, and whether the government should be so harsh as to destroy entire lives in the process.

Either way, you should read my recent editorial. I think you'd find my views on the present landscape surprising.

Actually, I suspect the opposite is true: only a small fraction of TPU users are mining and of those, most are only doing it casually.

I said "everyone mining," not implying that most here mine, only that none mine bitcoin direct here and thus would never be counted.

Yes, all the lefties using ideology to argue for cryptocurrencies have never looked at the sustainability of such systems. There is not enough energy in the world to make it an universal currency.

Blockchains are not really inherently inefficient, it comes down to node count. Reducing it helps loads, exponentially really, thus my proposal in my editorial.

It was never supposed to make you rich, just pay the energy bill.

Oh, and "lefties" made me chuckle. Crypto is more like the libertarian frontier, my good man. It's as far from left as you can get.

 

[efikkan]

Blockchains are not really inherently inefficient, it comes down to node count. Reducing it helps loads, exponentially really, thus my proposal in my editorial.

It was never supposed to make you rich, just pay the energy bill.

Oh, and "lefties" made me chuckle. Crypto is more like the libertarian frontier, my good man. It's as far from left as you can get.

I think you misunderstood my point; I was referring to all the leftie hipsters drinking their organic health shakes, which has recently jumped on the bandwagon thinking cryptocurrency is a way of fighting "the man" and never really understanding the actual technology, libretarians are usually less ideological. But that's another discussion.

Any blockchain payment technology is ultimately doomed, but cryptography certainly will be a part of the solution to online payment. Many banks have recently started using some kind of token system for two-factor authentication, usually with some 6-8 digit codes, these systems are not cryptographically secure. Many banks also use some kind of chip-and-pin system, which actually opens up the card to remote exploits, and since all such systems can easily be bypassed using their fallback mode, they are just a type of false security. Google, Apple, Facebook, etc. and many banks have their own online/mobile payment systems. But we are still in the early days of this technology, and there are still no widely adapted secure standards. A secure solution would have to include some public/private key encryption with signing of banks, similar to how SSL works.

 

[R-T-B]

Any blockchain payment technology is ultimately doomed

Why? All it's inefficiencies are a result of human greed. What would be wrong with a bank or government running say 16 CPU based nodes to handle transactions? This could be done.

Actually, it's looking into being done:

https://www.google.com/search?q=government+blockchain&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[efikkan]

Why? All it's inefficiencies are a result of human greed. What would be wrong with a bank or government running say 16 CPU based nodes to handle transactions? This could be done.

Because building a chain of transactions are not scalable. Delays, diverging chains, etc. are unavoidable when the amount of transactions get too high. The point of the blockchain is to have a collective way to authenticate transactions, but with banks hosting the nodes there is no need for this.

 

[cdawall]

At the point of exchange to your native currency, is pretty much the only way.

So what happens when most of the market accepts bitcoin as payment. I mean there are already bitcoin atms...

 

[R-T-B]

So what happens when most of the market accepts bitcoin as payment. I mean there are already bitcoin atms...

Presumably, whatever taxes are enforced get added to said ATMs, or said ATMs are removed.

Because building a chain of transactions are not scalable. Delays, diverging chains, etc. are unavoidable when the amount of transactions get too high. The point of the blockchain is to have a collective way to authenticate transactions, but with banks hosting the nodes there is no need for this.

Then why would banks be looking into using blockchains? I don't believe there is a technical limit based on node count, at least not a very unreasonably limiting one.

 

[cdawall]

Presumably, whatever taxes are enforced get added to said ATMs, or said ATMs are removed.

Good luck telling American companies they cannot.

 

[R-T-B]

Good luck telling American companies they cannot.

It's not really some new concept. Comply or be removed.

 

[cdawall]

It's not really some new concept. Comply or be removed.

That concept is purchased through the same politician's that block those movements.

 

[R-T-B]

That concept is purchased through the same politician's that block those movements.

I do not disagree, at least for the moment. I'm speaking theoretically. The most I see is a mild tax at best

 

[cdawall]

I do not disagree, at least for the moment. I'm speaking theoretically. The most I see is a mild tax at best

I don't see that at all. I see the same income tax on profit for all stock exchanges. That is basically how the irs sees it.

 

[R-T-B]

I don't see that at all. I see the same income tax on profit for all stock exchanges. That is basically how the irs sees it.

I'm inclined to agree for the moment, I was just speaking best case in the event we got a more pro-oversight government. ("best case" being for regulation, not users, obviously)

 

[Ruru]

So lets see.

Mining hurts gamers, it also hurts the environment.
Very nice.

Agree. Also it sucks to buy an used card which is "raped" by mining toy money.

 

[nem..]

 

[Melvis]

That's just crazy....I should start growing money on trees then, better for the environment and basically the same result right?

 

[MrGenius]

Also it sucks to buy an used card which is "raped" by mining toy money.

Except when you buy one for half the price of a new one. Like the previously used for mining 280X I bought. Which is still running strong after more than 3 years of overclocked to the max gaming. Because the 6 months of mining it went through had no lasting effect on it whatsoever. Best deal on the best graphics card I've ever owned by far.

"Raped" by mining. I'm glad people like you think so. Then there's less competition for me looking to score a killer deal on a used graphics card being sold at a massive loss by a miner just looking to get a little quick cash for something he no longer has any use for. So yeah. Don't buy second-hand graphics cards that have been used at all for mining. No matter how cheap they are. They're no longer good for anything. Avoid them at all costs. Please do. At least until I've bought all the ones I want.

 

[notb]

How do you regulate a network on multiple continents are we going to try and regulate the Pirate Bay as well?

You don't have to regulate the cryptocurrency. You only have to regulate it's usability.
BTC value lies in the fact that you can use is in online stores and this can be easily blocked.
When that happens BTC will drop to a couple USD and the whole mining phenomenon will be over in matter of days.

 

[cdawall]

You don't have to regulate the cryptocurrency. You only have to regulate it's usability.
BTC value lies in the fact that you can use is in online stores and this can be easily blocked.
When that happens BTC will drop to a couple USD and the whole mining phenomenon will be over in matter of days.

The market isn't going to crash like that without taking things with it. People think it oh so easy to forget crypto after it has pretty well embedded itself into things...

 

[notb]

The market isn't going to crash like that without taking things with it. People think it oh so easy to forget crypto after it has pretty well embedded itself into things...

You really believe in what you're saying? Just how is it "embedded itself into things"? :-D
"Taking things with it" - like what?

BTC is not very well utilized. It's not important. It has advantages, but nothing fantastic - nothing we can't live without.
Think about PayPal - a giant when it comes to online payments. And what would happen if PayPal suddenly vanished? Pretty much nothing, maybe just a small shock at first.

We don't need cryptocurrencies. Of course they are very useful, so they will stay in our lives, but the ones we have today (like BTC) simply create way too many problems.

One of bitcoin aims (if not the most important one) was to popularize the idea of blockchain. And it succeeded for sure - soon blockchain will become an important idea of many systems (not just in finance). But open cryptocurrencies mined with private GPUs? Oh come on.

 

[Ruru]

Except when you buy one for half the price of a new one. Like the previously used for mining 280X I bought. Which is still running strong after more than 3 years of overclocked to the max gaming. Because the 6 months of mining it went through had no lasting effect on it whatsoever. Best deal on the best graphics card I've ever owned by far.

"Raped" by mining. I'm glad people like you think so. Then there's less competition for me looking to score a killer deal on a used graphics card being sold at a massive loss by a miner just looking to get a little quick cash for something he no longer has any use for. So yeah. Don't buy second-hand graphics cards that have been used at all for mining. No matter how cheap they are. They're no longer good for anything. Avoid them at all costs. Please do. At least until I've bought all the ones I want.

Yeah I don't buy cards used with mining toy money anymore. 3½ years ago I bought 2 HD5870s and their fans were almost dead.

 

[yotano211]

That's just crazy....I should start growing money on trees then, better for the environment and basically the same result right?

USD is partially made from trees.