• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

PCI-SIG: PCIe 4.0 in 2017, PCIe 5.0 in 2019

Raevenlord

News Editor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,755 (1.23/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
Storage Boot: Transcend MTE220S 2TB, Kintson A2000 1TB, Seagate Firewolf Pro 14 TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
After years of continued innovation in PCIe's bandwidth, we've hit somewhat of a snag in recent times; after all, the PCIe 3.0 specification has been doing the rounds on our motherboards ever since 2010. PCI-SIG, the 750-member strong organization that's in charge of designing the specifications for the PCIe bus, attribute part of this delay to industry stagnation: PCIe 3.0 has simply been more than enough, bandwidth-wise, for many generations of hardware now. Only recently, with innovations in storage mediums and innovative memory solutions, such as NVMe SSDs and Intel's Optane, are we starting to hit the ceiling on what PCIe 3.0 offers. Add to that the increased workload and bandwidth requirements of the AI field, and the industry now seems to be eager for an upgrade, with some IP vendors even having put out PCIe 4.0-supporting controllers and PHYs into their next-generation products already - although at the incomplete 0.9 revision.





However, PCIe 4.0, with its doubled 64 GB/s bandwidth to PCie 3.0's comparably paltry 32 GB/s (yet more than sufficient for the average consumer), might be short lived in our markets. PCI-SIG is setting its sights on 2019 as the year for finalizing the PCIe 5.0 specifications; the conglomerate has accelerated its efforts on the 128 GB/s specification, which has already achieved revision 0.3, with an expected level of 0.5 by the end of 2017. Remember that a defined specification doesn't naturally and immediately manifest into products; AMD themselves are only pegging PCIe 4.0 support by 2020, which makes sense, considering the AM4 platform itself has been declared by the company has being supported until that point in time. AMD is trading the latest and greatest for platform longevity - though should PCIe 5.0 indeed be finalized by 2019, it's possible the company could include it in their next-generation platform. Intel, on the other hand, has a much faster track record of adopting new technologies on its platforms; whether Intel's yearly chipset release and motherboard/processor incompatibility stems from this desire to support the latest and greatest or as a way to sell more motherboards with each CPU generation is a matter open for debate. However, considering Intel's advances with more exotic memory subsystems such as Optane, a quicker adoption of new PCIe specifications is to be expected from the company.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
4,638 (0.92/day)
Don't see industry adopting this new standard well into late next year. Also other storage devices and other enterprise hardware PCI-E 4.0 specs will be useless for gaming industry.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,564 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 5800X Optane 800GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
2 years for one PCIE spec? that's ridicules and stupid

That's actually quite fast for a fresh standard. Fastest we've seen historically has been around that from drawing board to implementation. You don't notice because you're usually toying with whatever else is fresh and new for those two years.

Unless you mean that's TOO fast. I'm not sure we can ever have too fast of advancement.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,729 (6.69/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
Just Skip 64, go straight to 128, i figured gpus cant utilize all the bandwidth, even 2.0 still is fine.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
5,484 (1.04/day)
That's actually quite fast for a fresh standard. Fastest we've seen historically has been around that from drawing board to implementation. You don't notice because you're usually toying with whatever else is fresh and new for those two years.

Unless you mean that's TOO fast. I'm not sure we can ever have too fast of advancement.

Thing is, if you know that your product, or spec for that matter will be much better only in two years, in that area, just go with it instead and delay progress for those two years.

PCIE spec market is not in a huge rush. staying with 3.0 until 2020 will be just fine. This way there will be more time for chip makers to aim for a finalized 5.0 spec much ahead
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
666 (0.18/day)
Location
Scotland
Processor 5800x
Motherboard b550-e
Cooling full - custom liquid loop
Memory cl16 - 32gb
Video Card(s) 6800xt
Storage nvme 1TB + ssd 750gb
Display(s) xg32vc
Case hyte y60
Power Supply 1000W - gold
Software 10
why just not skip your post?

Why not just skip PCIe 4.0 ? No real point in it if we'll be at PCIe 5.0 by the year after...
 

Raevenlord

News Editor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,755 (1.23/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
Storage Boot: Transcend MTE220S 2TB, Kintson A2000 1TB, Seagate Firewolf Pro 14 TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
Why not just skip PCIe 4.0 ? No real point in it if we'll be at PCIe 5.0 by the year after...

Not for consumer workloads, but for professional workloads, it will ease current and future bottlenecks.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,564 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 5800X Optane 800GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
Thing is, if you know that your product, or spec for that matter will be much better only in two years, in that area, just go with it instead and delay progress for those two years.

PCIE spec market is not in a huge rush. staying with 3.0 until 2020 will be just fine. This way there will be more time for chip makers to aim for a finalized 5.0 spec much ahead

Actually, you've swayed me with that argument, at least for consumerland. Have a thanks.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,729 (6.69/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
2.0 8x takes a hit of 4%, 2.0 4x takes a hit of 16%... etc...I'd clarify and say 2.0 16x is still ok. :)

Higher end
Gpus were only ever designed for the 8/16x slot anyway...
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
2,697 (0.45/day)
System Name Dire Wolf IV
Processor Intel Core i9 14900K
Motherboard Asus ROG STRIX Z790-I GAMING WIFI
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 w/Thermalright Contact Frame
Memory 2x24GB Corsair DDR5 6667
Video Card(s) NVIDIA RTX4080 FE
Storage AORUS Gen4 7300 1TB + Western Digital SN750 500GB
Display(s) Alienware AW3423DWF (QD-OLED, 3440x1440, 165hz)
Case Corsair Airflow 2000D
Power Supply Corsair SF1000L
Mouse Razer Deathadder Essential
Keyboard Chuangquan CQ84
Software Windows 11 Professional
PCIE spec market is not in a huge rush

This is incorrect. There is a massive push for increased bandwidth brought forth by 100/200GbE. Faster and faster multi-port NICs are the main consumers of PCIe bandwidth and GPUs aren't even close. Server NICs, by and large, are x8/x4 beasts, and x8/x4 slots are by far the most common in the server world. In order to reduce system cost and/or size (and thus cram more things into a single rack), OEMs wish to pack the most traffic in the smallest amount of real-estate. That is where PCIe bandwidth matters, and this is where the push comes from.

GPUs do not move the world. NICs do.
 

Durvelle27

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
6,798 (1.49/day)
Location
Memphis, TN
System Name Black Prometheus
Processor |AMD Ryzen 7 1700
Motherboard ASRock B550M Pro4|MSI X370 Gaming PLUS
Cooling Thermalright PA120 SE | AMD Stock Cooler
Memory G.Skill 64GB(2x32GB) 3200MHz | 32GB(4x8GB) DDR4
Video Card(s) ASUS DirectCU II R9 290 4GB
Storage Sandisk X300 512GB + WD Black 6TB+WD Black 6TB
Display(s) LG Nanocell85 49" 4K 120Hz + ACER AOPEN 34" 3440x1440 144Hz
Case DeepCool Matrexx 55 V3 w/ 6x120mm Intake + 3x120mm Exhaust
Audio Device(s) LG Dolby Atmos 5.1
Power Supply Corsair RMX850 Fully Modular| EVGA 750W G2
Mouse Logitech Trackman
Keyboard Logitech K350
Software Windows 10 EDU x64
This is incorrect. There is a massive push for increased bandwidth brought forth by 100/200GbE. Faster and faster multi-port NICs are the main consumers of PCIe bandwidth and GPUs aren't even close. Server NICs, by and large, are x8/x4 beasts, and x8/x4 slots are by far the most common in the server world. In order to reduce system cost and/or size (and thus cram more things into a single rack), OEMs wish to pack the most traffic in the smallest amount of real-estate. That is where PCIe bandwidth matters, and this is where the push comes from.

GPUs do not move the world. NICs do.
Didn't the NICs lose
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
12,019 (1.72/day)
System Name Compy 386
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard Asus
Cooling Air for now.....
Memory 64 GB DDR5 6400Mhz
Video Card(s) 7900XTX 310 Merc
Storage Samsung 990 2TB, 2 SP 2TB SSDs, 24TB Enterprise drives
Display(s) 55" Samsung 4K HDR
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Mouse Logitech MX518
Keyboard Razer
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
This is incorrect. There is a massive push for increased bandwidth brought forth by 100/200GbE. Faster and faster multi-port NICs are the main consumers of PCIe bandwidth and GPUs aren't even close. Server NICs, by and large, are x8/x4 beasts, and x8/x4 slots are by far the most common in the server world. In order to reduce system cost and/or size (and thus cram more things into a single rack), OEMs wish to pack the most traffic in the smallest amount of real-estate. That is where PCIe bandwidth matters, and this is where the push comes from.

GPUs do not move the world. NICs do.

This is how we ended up with PCIx and a few other less well known ports, we needed faster server access, and the communication lines have to be wide and fast, and each extra step adds latency when routed. Servers need fast data access between racks of HDD's.

Its also why AMD came up with Infinity Fabric and have plans on using it in server space, more faster.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,729 (6.69/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
There are 16x physical slots which are wired x4. ;)

I know that, it was to support any plug in board but example a gf510 doesnt even need the bandwidth to run
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
484 (0.16/day)
What's interesting is this will most likely affect NVMe storage more than anything else, GPU acceleration and other uses of the PCIe protocol are far from being bottlenecked by the bandwidth of an x16 slot.
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
166 (0.05/day)
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
System Name Royal Fortune (Main)/Adventure Galley (NAS)/Little Ranger (HTPC)
Processor Intel i5 4460/AMD C-70/Intel Pentium G3258 Anniversary Ed.
Motherboard Gigabyte ga-z97x-gaming 5/Asrock C-70M1/Asrock Z97 Anniversary
Cooling Phanteks PH-TC12DX/Stock/Raijintek Triton Core
Memory 8GB Team Group Dark 1600 CL9/8GB Team Group Elite 1600 CL9/8GB Avexir Core 1600
Video Card(s) VTX3D R9 280X 3GB/APU/Palit GTX 750 TI StormX Duo
Storage 120GB Team Group Ultra L5 SSD + 1TB WD Black/4 X 2TB WD Blue/120 GB Kingston V300
Display(s) Dell 2310/AOC e2070Swn 19.5"/TV
Case In Win 707/Bitfenix Prodigy M/Dimastech Easy V3
Audio Device(s) N/A
Power Supply EVGA Supernova GS 650W/be quiet! System Power 7 350W/Xigmatek Maverick 400W
Mouse Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex/Razer Abyssus/-
Keyboard Corsair K70 Red/Steelseries Apex Raw/Logitech K400
Software Win10/FreeNAS 9.3/KodiBuntu
2 years for one PCIE spec? that's ridicules and stupid
In any other industry two years is ridiculous...fast.
Look at MIDI, AC measurement (weighted average vs. peak average) and any standard used in the automotive industry...adopting a new standard usually takes decades, not years, but in computer technology it sometimes only takes months.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,774 (1.40/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
100/200Gbps Ethernet, multiple USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt 4.0 ports over a PCI-E card, and so on....
 

cdawall

where the hell are my stars
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
27,680 (4.11/day)
Location
Houston
System Name All the cores
Processor 2990WX
Motherboard Asrock X399M
Cooling CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory 4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s) (2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage 2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s) Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s) Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard Keychron K8
Software W10P
I would be curious the bandwidth the new amd cards with dual ssds in the back required. Wonder if those would even use the 4.0
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
484 (0.16/day)
I would be curious the bandwidth the new amd cards with dual ssds in the back required. Wonder if those would even use the 4.0

The SSDs on those cards act as VRAM, they interface directly with the GPU, not the PCI bus.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,846 (3.95/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
Just Skip 64, go straight to 128, i figured gpus cant utilize all the bandwidth, even 2.0 still is fine.
As far as connectivity goes, it's nice to always have untapped bandwidth available. It gives us 100% peace of mind that the interface is not a bottle neck. The only downside would be if this extra bandwidth came at significant additional cost or power draw.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,372 (3.54/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
I know that, it was to support any plug in board but example a gf510 doesnt even need the bandwidth to run
I mean....................................................................................................

I was just clarifying your point. We didn't need to go down a rabbit hole. Anyone with half their grey matter can figure out this is with high-end cards...
 
Top