• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD To Change Suppliers for Vega 20 GPUs on 7nm, HBM2 Packaging for Vega 11

Raevenlord

News Editor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,755 (1.23/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
Storage Boot: Transcend MTE220S 2TB, Kintson A2000 1TB, Seagate Firewolf Pro 14 TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
AMD's RX Vega supply has seen exceedingly limited quantities available since launch. This has been due to a number of reasons, though the two foremost that have been reported are: increased demand from cryptocurrency miners, who are looking towards maximizing their single node hashrate density through Vega's promising mining capabilities; and yield issues with AMD's Vega 10 HBM2 packaging partner, Advanced Semiconductor Engineering (ASE). It's expected that chip yield for Vega 10 is also lower per se, due to it having a 484 mm² die, which is more prone to defects than a smaller one, thus reducing the amount of fully-enabled GPUs.

AMD's production partner, GlobalFoundries, has historically been at the center of considerations on AMD's yield problems. That GlobalFoundries is seemingly doing a good job with Ryzen may not be much to say: those chips have incredibly small die sizes (192 mm²) for their number of cores. It seems that Global Foundries only hits problems with increased die sizes and complexity (which is, unfortunately for AMD, where it matters most).





Due to these factors, it seems that AMD is looking to change manufacturers for both their chip yield issues, and packaging yield problems. ASE, which has seen a 10% revenue increase for the month of August (not coincidentally, the month that has seen AMD's RX Vega release) is reportedly being put in charge of a much smaller number of packaging orders, with Siliconware Precision Industries (SPIL), who has already taken on some Vega 10 packaging orders of its own, being the one to receive the bulk of Vega 11 orders. Vega 11 is expected to be the mainstream version of the Vega architecture, replacing Polaris' RX 500 series. Reports peg Vega 11 as also including HBM2 memory in their design instead of GDDR5 memory. Considering AMD's HBM memory history with both the original Fury and and now RX Vega, as well as the much increased cost of HBM2's implementation versus a more conventional GDDR memory subsystem, this editor reserves itself the right to be extremely skeptical that this is true. If it's indeed true, and Vega 11 indeed does introduce HBM2 memory to the mainstream GPU market, then... We'll talk when (if) we get there.

As to its die yield issues, AMD is reported to be changing their main supplier for their 7 nm AI-geared Vega 20 from GlobalFoundries to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), who has already secured orders for AI chips from NVIDIA and Google. TSMC's 7nm and CoWoS (chip-on-wafer-on-substrate) capabilities have apparently proven themselves enough for AMD to change manufacturers. How this will affect AMD and GlobalFoundries' Wafer Agreement remains to be seen, but we expect AMD will be letting go of some additional payments GlobalFoundries' way.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
2,995 (0.78/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X ||| Intel Core i7-3930K
Motherboard ASUS ProArt B550-CREATOR ||| Asus P9X79 WS
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S ||| Be Quiet Pure Rock
Memory Crucial 2 x 16 GB 3200 MHz ||| Corsair 8 x 8 GB 1333 MHz
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1060 3GB ||| MSI GTX 680 4GB
Storage Samsung 970 PRO 512 GB + 1 TB ||| Intel 545s 512 GB + 256 GB
Display(s) Asus ROG Swift PG278QR 27" ||| Eizo EV2416W 24"
Case Fractal Design Define 7 XL x 2
Audio Device(s) Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
Power Supply Seasonic Focus PX-850 x 2
Mouse Razer Abyssus
Keyboard CM Storm QuickFire XT
Software Ubuntu
Vega11 on HBM would be a huge mistake, AMD needs a volume GPU in this segment. There is also a large gap between GTX 1060 and GTX 1070 for anyone to fill. And Volta is coming early next year…
 
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
1,942 (0.56/day)
Location
Seattle, WA
Vega11 on HBM would be a huge mistake, AMD needs a volume GPU in this segment. There is also a large gap between GTX 1060 and GTX 1070 for anyone to fill. And Volta is coming early next year…

I think RTG designed themselves into a corner with Vega in general and are at the point of no return to change over to GDDR. While it's true we don't know what they taped Vega 11 to be, the popular chorus of 'switch to GDDR5(x)' requires a completely reworked ASIC, PCB and reference HSF assembly (assuming they don't reuse an old design). All of that costs time and money that AMD can no longer afford for Vega. At this point I would not be surprised if the other execs told Raja to focus his teams on Navi and just get all of Vega out the damn door.

So yeah, HBM on Vega 11 is probably a massive mistake, but if that's the way they taped it out then it's a mistake they're stuck with.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
2,995 (0.78/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X ||| Intel Core i7-3930K
Motherboard ASUS ProArt B550-CREATOR ||| Asus P9X79 WS
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S ||| Be Quiet Pure Rock
Memory Crucial 2 x 16 GB 3200 MHz ||| Corsair 8 x 8 GB 1333 MHz
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1060 3GB ||| MSI GTX 680 4GB
Storage Samsung 970 PRO 512 GB + 1 TB ||| Intel 545s 512 GB + 256 GB
Display(s) Asus ROG Swift PG278QR 27" ||| Eizo EV2416W 24"
Case Fractal Design Define 7 XL x 2
Audio Device(s) Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
Power Supply Seasonic Focus PX-850 x 2
Mouse Razer Abyssus
Keyboard CM Storm QuickFire XT
Software Ubuntu
Sure, it takes a while to redesign a memory controller.
If AMD have chosen HBM2 for Vega11 as well, they've dug their own grave. These chips would have to last until Navi.
 
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Messages
514 (0.14/day)
Location
Ilirska Bistrica, Slovenia
System Name Thermaltake
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 5800X3D @ 4.60 GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte B550 Aorus Elite V2
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin
Memory 32 GB Crucial Ballistix @ 3600 MHz CL16
Video Card(s) XFX 319 Merc 6800 XT
Storage Kingston 256GB SSD | Kingston 240GB NVMe | Samsung 1TB NVMe | Samsung F3 1TB HDD | Barracuda 2TB HDD
Display(s) 34" ultrawide LG 34GL750B 144hz 1ms | 55" LG UR91 4k@60Hz
Case Phanteks Eclipse P400
Audio Device(s) ALC 1220 120dB SNR HD Audio
Power Supply Thermaltake GF1 850 W - 80 Plus Gold
Mouse Logitech G502 HERO Lightspeed
Keyboard Asus TUF Gaming K3
Software Windows 11 Pro x64
I guess:
  1. Keep GlobalFoundries as supplier for Ryzen?
  2. New GPU supplier?

profit for everyone?
 
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
585 (0.14/day)
If this is true, AMD really needs to fire the people they're using to do future forecasting for technology design. Because HBM on their mainstream product is just a horrible decision. It was already a bad enough decision on their high end part...
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.20/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
If this is true, AMD really needs to fire the people they're using to do future forecasting for technology design. Because HBM on their mainstream product is just a horrible decision. It was already a bad enough decision on their high end part...
While I get you i think something to remember is HBM have yeilds have bins too plus I personally see the Vega chip type's as Amds stepping stone to Navi , if they indeed do tie 2-4+ gpus on an interposer with each having Hbm they clearly need to put some time in the lab with something similar and these could be seen as affirmative steps in that direction, ie what is the best config 2x4096 ,4x4096 4x2356 who knows , It is not going to help with costs but maybe they see mining sticking around, and the market remaining at higher norms.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.87/day)
Advantage of split GPU's would also be heat distribution. Even if it's higher as a whole, it won't be concentrated in a "tiny" spot like current massive monolithic GPU's. It's all speculation for Navi, but if they can really pull it off, it's gonna pay off big time. The problem is taking away 300W from a single spot. Taking away 300W of heat from a larger surface is a lot easier. We'll see in about 2 years...
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
17,232 (2.52/day)
As to its die yield issues, AMD is reported to be changing their main supplier for their 7 nm AI-geared Vega 20 from GlobalFoundries to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), who has already secured orders for AI chips from NVIDIA and Google. TSMC's 7nm and CoWoS (chip-on-wafer-on-substrate) capabilities have apparently proven themselves enough for AMD to change manufacturers. How this will affect AMD and GlobalFoundries' Wafer Agreement remains to be seen, but we expect AMD will be letting go of some additional payments GlobalFoundries' way.


I had been begging AMD to switch to GloFo for GPUs because of info leaks on unreleased GPUs that came out of TSMC. Turns out, this time, with VEGA, nobody had any real idea as to what the real story was with VEGA, so perhaps moving to GloFo did improve the security of the data on AMD's unreleased products. It will be very interesting to me to see them go back to TSMC, and to see how the next launch works.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
3,881 (0.84/day)
I had been begging AMD to switch to GloFo for GPUs because of info leaks on unreleased GPUs that came out of TSMC. Turns out, this time, with VEGA, nobody had any real idea as to what the real story was with VEGA, so perhaps moving to GloFo did improve the security of the data on AMD's unreleased products. It will be very interesting to me to see them go back to TSMC, and to see how the next launch works.

This could be foundry diversifying due to demand both in CPU and GPU. If in fact they are gaining market share.

If VEGA is being received well they might be hedging their bets. We still havent seen & heard much of VEGA x2 since ROCM leaks and since releases started moving months back we might not see it until next year Q1 or even Q2. Imagine the ruccus thats going to cause if things havent calmed down
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
3,244 (1.22/day)
System Name Grunt
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte x570 Gaming X
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A
Memory Corsair LPX 3600 4x8GB
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 6800 XT (reference)
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 2TB
Display(s) Samsung CFG70, Samsung NU8000 TV
Case Corsair C70
Power Supply Corsair HX750
Software Win 10 Pro
Curious where the original Global Foundry fab was located?

Why must everything be in freaking Taiwan.

Well, except Intel thankfully.

edit: Even more sad since AMD used to be in my home state... along with others.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
5,717 (0.93/day)
System Name Virtual Reality / Bioinformatics
Processor Undead CPU
Motherboard Undead TUF X99
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory GSkill 128GB DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra
Storage Samsung 960 Pro 1TB + 860 EVO 2TB + WD Black 5TB
Display(s) 32'' 4K Dell
Case Fractal Design R5
Audio Device(s) BOSE 2.0
Power Supply Seasonic 850watt
Mouse Logitech Master MX
Keyboard Corsair K70 Cherry MX Blue
VR HMD HTC Vive + Oculus Quest 2
Software Windows 10 P
I am wondering the spec of possible Vega11. Gotta to be a further cut down version of Vega56. Or a Vega56 with GDDR5X?
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
17,232 (2.52/day)
Curious where the original Global Foundry fab was located?

Why must everything be in freaking Taiwan.

Well, except Intel thankfully.

edit: Even more sad since AMD used to be in my home state... along with others.
iirc, GloFo has manufacturing facilities in Singapore, Germany, and the US. Not in Taiwan at all. They might have an office in Taiwan though. GloFo used to be AMD-owned, but they split off the foundry business many years ago when they went to an "Asset-Light" business model, and since then, the only new things that I can think of for foundry stuff was in Fishkill? I cannot recall directly. I'm sure that they must have this sort of info on their site though. Anyway, so iirc, they had their main foundry in Germany then, Dresden I think.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
3,244 (1.22/day)
System Name Grunt
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte x570 Gaming X
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A
Memory Corsair LPX 3600 4x8GB
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 6800 XT (reference)
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 2TB
Display(s) Samsung CFG70, Samsung NU8000 TV
Case Corsair C70
Power Supply Corsair HX750
Software Win 10 Pro
iirc, GloFo has manufacturing facilities in Singapore, Germany, and the US. Not in Taiwan at all. They might have an office in Taiwan though. GloFo used to be AMD-owned, but they split off the foundry business many years ago when they went to an "Asset-Light" business model, and since then, the only new things that I can think of for foundry stuff was in Fishkill? I cannot recall directly. I'm sure that they must have this sort of info on their site though. Anyway, so iirc, they had their main foundry in Germany then, Dresden I think.

I never looked at their site. It's usually difficult to find for most companies so I gave up. Thanks.

As for Taiwan, I mean this new operation they seem to be moving to (not GoFlo).
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
17,232 (2.52/day)
Oh, that's TSMC, and yes, most definitely is in Taiwan. ATI used TSMC prior to being bought by AMD, and AMD continued to use TSMC for a while, too, but then recently switched to GLoFo for their GPUs.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.54/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
If it was cheaper and more available, wouldn't it make sense for there to be more of them? Why would they trickle it into the market when miners and gamers alike would (and are) swoop these up?
 

Perihelion

New Member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
2 (0.00/day)
Vega11 on HBM would be a huge mistake, AMD needs a volume GPU in this segment. There is also a large gap between GTX 1060 and GTX 1070 for anyone to fill. And Volta is coming early next year…

Volta is NOT coming soon. 1080 and TI are selling well enough. And there are also Miners.. Damn Miners... neither of them will rush
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,609 (6.67/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
iirc, GloFo has manufacturing facilities in Singapore, Germany, and the US. Not in Taiwan at all. They might have an office in Taiwan though. GloFo used to be AMD-owned, but they split off the foundry business many years ago when they went to an "Asset-Light" business model, and since then, the only new things that I can think of for foundry stuff was in Fishkill? I cannot recall directly. I'm sure that they must have this sort of info on their site though. Anyway, so iirc, they had their main foundry in Germany then, Dresden I think.

I believe that was the famous FAB51.

I doubt glofo can adapt properly or hold up a dual front, perhaps another fab needs to handle gpus since glofo is not up to the task, same can be said when amd changes cpu designs too...
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.44/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Taiwan, Malaysia, etc. often have final assembly which appears on the integrated heat spreader. Most electronic components are individually made in the west (e.g. Intel has a lot of fabs in the USA and GloFo has a few).

I'm more concerned about the memory. Presumably Vega 11 is only going to get 4 GiB but how are they going to package it? 1x 4 GiB or 2 x 2 GiB? 1 x 4 GiB would be cheaper to manufacturer but would make for an odd looking chip.

I heard that most of the supply problems did stem from the interposer integrator. Not surprised at all that they're changing.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
3,244 (1.22/day)
System Name Grunt
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte x570 Gaming X
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A
Memory Corsair LPX 3600 4x8GB
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 6800 XT (reference)
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 2TB
Display(s) Samsung CFG70, Samsung NU8000 TV
Case Corsair C70
Power Supply Corsair HX750
Software Win 10 Pro
Taiwan, Malaysia, etc. often have final assembly which appears on the integrated heat spreader. Most electronic components are individually made in the west (e.g. Intel has a lot of fabs in the USA and GloFo has a few).

Huh. Most components in general are made in the West or just these companies?

Where can I read up on this? I don't mean to derail, but it's a subject of interest to me.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.44/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
3,244 (1.22/day)
System Name Grunt
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte x570 Gaming X
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A
Memory Corsair LPX 3600 4x8GB
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 6800 XT (reference)
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 2TB
Display(s) Samsung CFG70, Samsung NU8000 TV
Case Corsair C70
Power Supply Corsair HX750
Software Win 10 Pro

the54thvoid

Super Intoxicated Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
13,119 (2.39/day)
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar B650 (wifi)
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
Memory 32GB Kingston Fury
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX4070ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 M.2 1TB / Samsumg 960 Pro M.2 512Gb
Display(s) LG 32" 165Hz 1440p GSYNC
Case Asus Prime AP201
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply be quiet! Pure POwer M12 850w Gold (ATX3.0)
Software W10
I never looked at their site. It's usually difficult to find for most companies so I gave up. Thanks.

As for Taiwan, I mean this new operation they seem to be moving to (not GoFlo).

TSMC does stand for Taiwanese Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. It's based there for a reason.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
9,504 (3.27/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
So much for those "huge gains on 7nm" , to me this would be another confirmation that GloFo sucks and it's dragging AMD down.

That being said , it's very good news that they are trying to switch to TSMC.
 
Top