• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD Struggles to Be Excluded from Unwarranted Intel VT Flaw Kernel Patches

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,608 (6.67/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
569 (0.12/day)
Processor i5 4670K - @ 4.8GHZ core
Motherboard MSI Z87 G43
Cooling Thermalright Ultra-120 *(Modded to fit on this motherboard)
Memory 16GB 2400MHZ
Video Card(s) HD7970 GHZ edition Sapphire
Storage Samsung 120GB 850 EVO & 4X 2TB HDD (Seagate)
Display(s) 42" Panasonice LED TV @120Hz
Case Corsair 200R
Audio Device(s) Xfi Xtreme Music with Hyper X Core
Power Supply Cooler Master 700 Watts
'tis nothing, don't make such a big deal out of it! This patch simply puts everyone on a level playing field to make things fair.

#intelapologiststrikesagain

LOL, nice one.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.16/day)
Any penalty sucks, even if just 5%. You bought the CPU based on reviews that said otherwise. And now it'll get gimped.
Here's the thing. Datacenters don't buy CPUs based on reviews. :)
In fact most PC owners don't look at reviews, nor would they understand them. Even many gamers don't.

Yes, this is an important issue, but many of you are overestimating it's importance for the whole market.
I mean: isn't the main argument of Intel critics that they only provide 5% with each generation? That it's nothing, marginal, irrelevant? That Kaby Lake is just a revamped Haswell or something?
So now we have a CPU design flaw that, on average, moves us a generation back. Why is it suddenly such a deal for the same people? :)

I like the +5% yearly, so I should be pissed off when it's taken away from me. And I might be, but I'm waiting for the patch. We'll see what it does to my PC. Possibly (hopefully) not much.

Well it is a serious flaw that Intel has @notb. What's the matter don't like the fact your precious intel has the issue and they are so corrupt to try and force a patch for ms to auto download on w10 systems?
Of course it's a serious flaw, But there is a difference between 5% and 30% - all I'm saying. If it's 5%, most people won't even notice.

BTW:
Bullseye on auto-update. I have nothing against it. Actually, since I moved to W10 on all my PCs, I stopped worrying about the updates, I stopped reading their descriptions and so on. It saves a lot of time. You're thinking less about technical issues and more about actual problems. It's like moving from C++ to C# (although C++ evolved anyway).

Think about how incoherent people are. Almost no one cares about how a new OS version differs from the previous one. Yet, so many people freak out about updates.
I know it slightly harms your ego, because you're "an enthusiast", you want to have control over your PC and so on. But productivity-wise, it really saves a lot of time. I'm trusting a 3rd party cleaning company with my suits, so why would I not trust Microsoft or Intel with my PC? :)
Is this just affecting the performance of vm's using the linux kernal??
No, it will affect all PCs. But the issue itself is more severe on servers. (security-wise).
But here's some consolation, in case you worry too much. Performance of your desktop is compromised by server-specific needs anyway. It's been like that since the architectures were unified. :)
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.20/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Here's the thing. Datacenters don't buy CPUs based on reviews. :)
In fact most PC owners don't look at reviews, nor would they understand them. Even many gamers don't.

Yes, this is an important issue, but many of you are overestimating it's importance for the whole market.
I mean: isn't the main argument of Intel critics that they only provide 5% with each generation? That it's nothing, marginal, irrelevant? That Kaby Lake is just a revamped Haswell or something?
So now we have a CPU design flaw that, on average, moves us a generation back. Why is it suddenly such a deal for the same people? :)

I like the +5% yearly, so I should be pissed off when it's taken away from me. And I might be, but I'm waiting for the patch. We'll see what it does to my PC. Possibly (hopefully) not much.


Of course it's a serious flaw, But there is a difference between 5% and 30% - all I'm saying. If it's 5%, most people won't even notice.

BTW:
Bullseye on auto-update. I have nothing against it. Actually, since I moved to W10 on all my PCs, I stopped worrying about the updates, I stopped reading their descriptions and so on. It saves a lot of time. You're thinking less about technical issues and more about actual problems. It's like moving from C++ to C# (although C++ evolved anyway).

Think about how incoherent people are. Almost no one cares about how a new OS version differs from the previous one. Yet, so many people freak out about updates.
I know it slightly harms your ego, because you're "an enthusiast", you want to have control over your PC and so on. But productivity-wise, it really saves a lot of time. I'm trusting a 3rd party cleaning company with my suits, so why would I not trust Microsoft or Intel with my PC? :)

No, it will affect all PCs. But the issue itself is more severe on servers. (security-wise).
But here's some consolation, in case you worry too much. Performance of your desktop is compromised by server-specific needs anyway. It's been like that since the architectures were unified. :)
Im not worried i can refuse the patch but don't play down the fact intels CPU design this last few generations has been a shit storm of failure on the security front or the fact that it's underhanded bullshit to apply this fix unilaterally.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.87/day)
Admins of data centers also know the performance metrics. Having a performance penalty of up to 30% on Intel CPU kinda screws things up pretty badly. Especially if you just spent few millions on brand new clusters where you were hoping for that extra gain and you basically end up on performance levels of your old clusters. That kinda sucks doesn't it?
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
2,200 (0.43/day)
Exactly. You have to understand that within DC's there are clusters of Intel based CPU's running 24/7. A penalty of 5% up to 30% can run very large into numbers depending on type of workload. So yeah, intel is having a situation here.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,608 (6.67/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
I smell class action for misrepresenting and allowing a flawed product line dating to 2007 till now to be pushed upon end users.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.16/day)
Admins of data centers also know the performance metrics.
But not from reviews. :)
Performance is not the most important issue in datacenters. So yes, 5% is a bummer, but it's also not the end of the world. People will still buy Xeons. It's just that Intel may be forced to lower prices a bit to a more adequate level.
Having a performance penalty of up to 30% on Intel CPU kinda screws things up pretty badly. Especially if you just spent few millions on brand new clusters where you were hoping for that extra gain and you basically end up on performance levels of your old clusters. That kinda sucks doesn't it?
No one said it doesn't suck. And BTW: from what I've seen it's at least up to 50%. So if you want to use an extreme case, do it properly. :)
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,608 (6.67/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
D

Deleted member 172152

Guest
But not from reviews. :)
Performance is not the most important issue in datacenters. So yes, 5% is a bummer, but it's also not the end of the world. People will still buy Xeons. It's just that Intel may be forced to lower prices a bit to a more adequate level.

No one said it doesn't suck. And BTW: from what I've seen it's at least up to 50%. So if you want to use an extreme case, do it properly. :)
Except datacenters get a 30% performance decrease! MAJOR companies suddenly will have 30% slower cloud servers!!!!! That's going to piss them off for sure!!!!
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.16/day)
I smell class action for misrepresenting and allowing a flawed product line dating to 2007 till now to be pushed upon end users.
Class action seems groundless. It's a product fault, not misrepresenting, and Intel is going to fix it as much as it can.
But on the other hand, fixing this will generate some costs in large datacenters and this is something with a lawsuit potential - but only for companies that still use flawed CPUs, not all that had since 2007.
No, 25-30% is then a good average if 50% is an absolute extreme case...
That's some wicked math going on. How did you estimate this? :-D
 
D

Deleted member 172152

Guest
Class action seems groundless. It's a product fault, not misrepresenting, and Intel is going to fix it as much as it can.
But on the other hand, fixing this will generate some costs in large datacenters and this is something with a lawsuit potential - but only for companies that still use flawed CPUs, not all that had since 2007.

That's some wicked math going on. How did you estimate this? :-D
ALL the CPU's from Intel the last ten years have the flaw!!!! Some of the most powerful supercomputers can be slowed down by 30%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.87/day)
Class action seems groundless. It's a product fault, not misrepresenting, and Intel is going to fix it as much as it can.
But on the other hand, fixing this will generate some costs in large datacenters and this is something with a lawsuit potential - but only for companies that still use flawed CPUs, not all that had since 2007.

That's some wicked math going on. How did you estimate this? :-D

The most basic math? If 5% is lowest estimate and 50% the highest, where is the rough middle?
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,608 (6.67/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
Class action seems groundless. It's a product fault, not misrepresenting, and Intel is going to fix it as much as it can.
But on the other hand, fixing this will generate some costs in large datacenters and this is something with a lawsuit potential - but only for companies that still use flawed CPUs, not all that had since 2007.

That's some wicked math going on. How did you estimate this? :-D

There is no fixing it without refabing the chips, otherwise it's a patch that drops performance 5-30% and they are trying to force it on all users when the flaw isn't in AMD parts. Stop trying to minimize and deflect the issue.

The Jig is up, just give up dude.
 
Last edited:

HTC

Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
4,664 (0.76/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name HTC's System
Processor Ryzen 5 5800X3D
Motherboard Asrock Taichi X370
Cooling NH-C14, with the AM4 mounting kit
Memory G.Skill Kit 16GB DDR4 F4 - 3200 C16D - 16 GTZB
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse 6600 8 GB
Storage 1 Samsung NVMe 960 EVO 250 GB + 1 3.5" Seagate IronWolf Pro 6TB 7200RPM 256MB SATA III
Display(s) LG 27UD58
Case Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair TX 850M 80+ Gold
Mouse Razer Deathadder Elite
Software Ubuntu 20.04.6 LTS
Linux has a -nopti kernel boot option for us Linux+AMD users.

How does one go about using it?

Though i'm now more familiar with Linux, this sort of thing is still out of my reach.

For advanced Linux users, there is no concern, you can even compile your own kernel excluding your system from this patch. But most are not that advanced, so this is some serious BS if left like this. I'm hoping that this is a one-for-all emergency response that can be rectified once AMD processors are (hopefully) cleared after some investigation...

They better well be. When that happens, i'd demand a nice compensation, if i were in AMD's shoes!
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
17,865 (2.87/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Black 4TB | WD Blue 6TB
Display(s) ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) | Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair AX1600i
Mouse Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard Yes
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
I'm beginning to wonder if this serious enough to warrant a product recall and replacement with a later stepping that has this flaw fixed? Waddya think, @eidairaman1 ?

It will cost them millions of that's the case, lol.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
7,563 (1.77/day)
Class action seems groundless. It's a product fault, not misrepresenting, and Intel is going to fix it as much as it can.
But on the other hand, fixing this will generate some costs in large datacenters and this is something with a lawsuit potential - but only for companies that still use flawed CPUs, not all that had since 2007.

That's some wicked math going on. How did you estimate this? :-D
Depends on how long they've known about this, or were informed about it. Like I said in the other thread, this flaw was possibly revelead back in 2016, so if somehow it went unpatched & Intel/MS/Linus just sat on it till they found the attack vector affecting systems in the wild & then issued this emergency patch, then they're all in trouble. More so the cloud vendors than Intel itself atm, of course someone like Google/FB/Amazon could just sue Intel if there's any litigation coming their way due to this, or even a performance impact due to that 5~30% (or more) drop in performance.

I'm more interested in how old(er) OS' can be affected by it, if so then Intel's really effed o_O
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.16/day)
ALL the CPU's from Intel the last ten years have the flaw!!!! Some of the most powerful supercomputers can be slowed down by 30%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The number of "!" is growing quickly!

Since this is a security issue, most supercomputers will be perfectly safe. Admins will simply ignore this patch. Linux kernels in supercomputers are highly customized anyway.
This is an issue for datacenters.

What I meant is that you'd have to use a faulty CPU at the moment, not just have owned it in the past. So it's not about all CPUs made since 2007. You won't be able to sue Intel for a CPU that you've thrown away, because you haven't lost anything.

The most basic math? If 5% is lowest estimate and 50% the highest, where is the rough middle?
Please don't tempt me...
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,608 (6.67/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
I'm beginning to wonder if this serious enough to warrant a product recall and replacement with a later stepping that has this flaw fixed? Waddya think, @eidairaman1 ?

It will cost them millions of that's the case, lol.
Intel has been trying to hide these flaws for 10+years now.

I think they should be required to replace all of those parts corps bought recently and pull all affected parts from markets till the flaws are eliminated, on top of that give discounts to users of oldest parts towards system upgrades to parts without flaws and close up all backdoors. Release said patch for intel only temporarily and not force it on everyone.

I think this is a part of the reason why Intel switched CEOs recently

sorry mate for someone thats a 2nd rate tr**l you seem to ignore 1st rate reason for a class action ie faulty product (with known but undisclosed till now fault)

Yup
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,608 (6.67/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
Can't wait to see Intel releasing new generation and bragging about % performance differences to these flawed gen patched parts...

Yup with another socket change smh...
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
184 (0.06/day)
get.png
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Messages
1,959 (0.26/day)
Location
The Kingdom of Norway
Processor Ryzen 5900X
Motherboard Gigabyte B550I AORUS PRO AX 1.1
Cooling Noctua NB-U12A
Memory 2x 32GB Fury DDR4 3200mhz
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 7800 XT Hellhound
Storage Kingston FURY Renegade 2TB PCIe 4.0
Display(s) 2x Dell U2412M
Case Phanteks P400A
Audio Device(s) Hifimediy Sabre 9018 USB DAC
Power Supply Corsair AX850 (from 2012)
Software Windows 10?
Top