Editorial Confessions of a Crypto Miner: Efficiency

[R-T-B]

It's likely going to come down to the power supply itself. For all we know, R-T-B PSU at 240v might be using an internal step-down transformer to 120v.

I'm pretty sure reviews would've noted that...

 

[W1zzard]

Thermal stress on solder joints is a myth from GeForce 8-series era. It's not the solder balls that detach from PCB, it's a bonding array between the die and the substrate, and is not so much a thermal expansion problem, as a factory defect. It still happens on newer cards, but very-very rarely comparing to VRAM failures, which lots of people and even repair technicians confuse with GPU failure.

Ah I didn't know that. Any source? Shouldn't a factory defect per definition be present from the start?

 

[silentbogo]

Ah I didn't know that. Any source? Shouldn't a factory defect per definition be present from the start?

It was a long time ago. The problem was an epoxy, or whatever type of the bonding material NV used in those cards, and forgot to account for thermal expansion, so during the normal operation the heat-resistant adhesive would hold the die in place and slowly but surely wiggle it out of the bonding spot, thus breaking the contact between die and substrate. Fixed since Fermi.

There used to be more info on this about 8-9 years ago, but here's a brief article on this topic:
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1004378/why-nvidia-chips-defective

Kinda like the recent Vega packaging problem, but with disastrous impact on the end-user.
This sh%t also started the whole "bake it in the oven" craze.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Why is this on the front page?

Because it is a TPU-driven experiment and study to bring some greater understanding of mining, good and bad. Naturally we are being kept in the loop on findings as things progress.

 

[SirB]

Keep up the BS articles about mining. Watch your reputation as a tech site go down the toilet.
Absolutely pathetic...... Now watch me get banned. lol

 

[jaggerwild]

^+1 You got to wonder sometimes Who's driving the BUS

 

[R-T-B]

Keep up the BS articles about mining. Watch your reputation as a tech site go down the toilet.

Mining is tech. A lot of tech went into this article actually, show some respect.

^+1 You got to wonder sometimes Who's driving the BUS

That would be @W1zzard

 

[Fabio]

Mining is tech. A lot of tech went into this article actually, show some respect.



That would be @W1zzard

mining in pointless s*** that waste real resources

 

[R-T-B]

mining in pointless s*** that waste real resources

It's not pointless per se, it is however debatable whether it is worth the energy cost. I'm unconvinced either way on that... but I do know one thing:

Efficiency is of the utmost importance.

 

[Beastie]

It looks to me that ATM it is worth going for the maximum hashrate and not worrying too much about electricity usage. (That is, given that electricity costs are not too high,temps are ok and the cards are not too inefficient going flat out.)

Keep up the BS articles about mining. Watch your reputation as a tech site go down the toilet.
Absolutely pathetic...... Now watch me get banned. lol

I'm not mining myself but I find RTB's articles interesting. I like to keep up on new tech, even if I'm not planning on buying a pallet of GPUs tomorrow.
As far as I can see the content is factual and the tone as neutral as possible.

The mainstream press know next to nothing about crypto so it is nice to have some decent info here.
Crypto has become one of those subjects that everyone has an opinion on but hardly anyone knows much about.

IMHO anyone who has no interest whatsoever is free to not click on this article, and free to post in one of the other threads decrying mining.

 

[OneMoar]

the efficiency doesn't surprise me

you are rectifying AC TO DC
doubling the voltage doesn't really make that process any more efficient

now if you where talking 3 phase thats a whole different ballgame

 

[R-T-B]

doubling the voltage doesn't really make that process any more efficient

Well, I mean PSU manufacturerers, the 80PLUS standards, and even these test results (albeit only at one percent) all disagree with you. SOMETHING inside the PSU becomes more efficient at higher voltage.

The surprising thing is that the doubling is not MORE efficient given the marketing they provide saying I should expect at least a 2% gain.

It looks to me that ATM it is worth going for the maximum hashrate and not worrying too much about electricity usage. (That is, given that electricity costs are not too high,temps are ok and the cards are not too inefficient going flat out.)




I'm not mining myself but I find RTB's articles interesting. I like to keep up on new tech, even if I'm not planning on buying a pallet of GPUs tomorrow.
As far as I can see the content is factual and the tone as neutral as possible.

The mainstream press know next to nothing about crypto so it is nice to have some decent info here.
Crypto has become one of those subjects that everyone has an opinion on but hardly anyone knows much about.

IMHO anyone who has no interest whatsoever is free to not click on this article, and free to post in one of the other threads decrying mining.

Thank you.

I see no reason why mining and non-mining articles can not coexist neutrally on a tech related website.

Honestly my opinion of crypto tech in it's current form is hardly positive (there is a reason the watt meter shot was chosen, anyone notice anything about the last 3 digits?), but I like to learn.

 

[LightningJR]

The higher the voltage the lower the Amps required to attain the same amount of Watts. There are many reasons why a higher voltage will give higher efficiency. But to be fair most of the gains are from supplying power over long distances. Most heat generated is from the amperage pumped through a wire and heat increases resistance of conductors (but not semi-conductors) and resistance lowers efficiency . Also voltage drop is less of an issue at a higher initial voltage which also helps to lower temps and lessen the required amps.

Because PSUs are made to handle both 120V and 240V supplies then they have to be made to handle the 120V amperage requirement which means a higher gauge wire is needed to pass code standards. This is another positive for 240V supplies since the wire used inside the PSU is much larger than needed which means it'll impeded 240V less and generate less heat as well.

 

[hat]

Keep up the BS articles about mining. Watch your reputation as a tech site go down the toilet.
Absolutely pathetic...... Now watch me get banned. lol

You think? Mining is very tech oriented. As it stands right now, it's not the way it was meant to be, but there is a lot of useful tech in there.

mining in pointless s*** that waste real resources

You know, every time I see a comment like this, it triggers me, just a little bit... I understand that mining caused a big GPU shortage. I'm a gamer too, hell, that's how I found this site originally way back in the day. But mining is making a lot of people money. People like me that struggle all the time financially, and people like daddy bigbucks who takes entire shipments of them. I was fortunate enough to get in while it was still reasonably possible to do so. The shortage had already begun, to an extent, but I was lucky enough to find a measly two cards for myself.

Personally I think mining is a little bit more important than gaming. I've been playing video games since I was at least as young as 2, but it's never earned me a single cent. Mining, however, has... and if it weren't for mining I would never have two GTX1070s. I'd still be happily chugging along with my old GTX660 Ti. Since then my mining has helped me out a lot, and things would be noticeably worse without it.

 

[psyko12]

Been following the articles you put up @R-T-B , thank you for the interesting finds.

These sort of things pique my interest. Especially this one. Efficiency and power cost, because here in the Philippines we have a lot of gpu miners, I was wondering how they survive with their multi gpu rigs because electricity here isn't cheap, especially if you live in the city.

Thanks for all the effort and information.

 

[Fabio]

It's not pointless per se, it is however debatable whether it is worth the energy cost. I'm unconvinced either way on that... but I do know one thing:

Efficiency is of the utmost importance.

You think? Mining is very tech oriented. As it stands right now, it's not the way it was meant to be, but there is a lot of useful tech in there.



You know, every time I see a comment like this, it triggers me, just a little bit... I understand that mining caused a big GPU shortage. I'm a gamer too, hell, that's how I found this site originally way back in the day. But mining is making a lot of people money. People like me that struggle all the time financially, and people like daddy bigbucks who takes entire shipments of them. I was fortunate enough to get in while it was still reasonably possible to do so. The shortage had already begun, to an extent, but I was lucky enough to find a measly two cards for myself.

Personally I think mining is a little bit more important than gaming. I've been playing video games since I was at least as young as 2, but it's never earned me a single cent. Mining, however, has... and if it weren't for mining I would never have two GTX1070s. I'd still be happily chugging along with my old GTX660 Ti. Since then my mining has helped me out a lot, and things would be noticeably worse without it.

you are only part of a speculative mechanis. mining produce nothing, you burn real resources to produce nothing, complicated algorithm that sometime are used to validate exchang of a fake money without guarantees( that are not a money cause no one would accept it as a payemen except some rarr cases) but it is only something worst than a mere speculative product, like a future or a commodity. I say worst cause it is a ponzi scheme, there is nothing under those cripto, and the day people stop trow in real money the castle crash down.
people are exalted of the cripto sayng they can free people from banks, but those currency failed on evrything, no equity cause all of those cripto are in the hands of few, and no one want it cause they are useless, the miners cache out for real money as fast as they can. mine as long as you can if you want, cause sooner or later such a wast of energy to feed a ponzi scheme-like game will be killed in some way

 

[R-T-B]

mining produce nothing

I'm sorry, but I disagree. A payment network that has global reach is indeed something.

 

[hat]

You can trash crypto all you want, but the facts are, at least for me, it's helped me greatly in my time mining. It's helped bail me out of touch financial situations and helped me get things I would otherwise not have been able to get. That's far from useless, fake, or producing nothing to me. Sure it could all be ruined someday, but the same is true for everything. Even the Sun will burn out someday. It's worth something because people say it's worth something. The same is true for the dollar. Even "real" currencies crash and are reduced to nothing. It's happened many times in our history. The Gold Standard is dead and gone, even the dollar is backed by nothing.

 

[R-T-B]

You can trash crypto all you want, but the facts are, at least for me, it's helped me greatly in my time mining. It's helped bail me out of touch financial situations and helped me get things I would otherwise not have been able to get. That's far from useless, fake, or producing nothing to me. Sure it could all be ruined someday, but the same is true for everything. Even the Sun will burn out someday. It's worth something because people say it's worth something. The same is true for the dollar. Even "real" currencies crash and are reduced to nothing. It's happened many times in our history. The Gold Standard is dead and gone, even the dollar is backed by nothing.

This is what keeps me from outright trashing it, really. Stories like this.

 

[psyko12]

I can add to that, it saved me when payday was a week away and I was short on budget. It saved us with groceries and a full tank of gas. So I believe it produces something

 

[OneMoar]

yes but how many folks here other then RTB have done the power-usage to profit calculation in detail

 

[R-T-B]

yes but how many folks here other then RTB have done the power-usage to profit calculation in detail

Few I imagine, but remember even my research only applies to equihash/ZCash. I imagine it could be totally different elsewhere.

 

[silkstone]

Personally I think mining is a little bit more important than gaming. I've been playing video games since I was at least as young as 2, but it's never earned me a single cent. Mining, however, has... and if it weren't for mining I would never have two GTX1070s. I'd still be happily chugging along with my old GTX660 Ti. Since then my mining has helped me out a lot, and things would be noticeably worse without it.

Same for me, I'd never have been able to justify buying anything above a 1060. Most of the cards I have now, I can justify buying them as when I mine on them, they pay for themselves. Most of the cards I have are upgrades I've paid for from mining on the previous cards.

 

[trog100]

Same for me, I'd never have been able to justify buying anything above a 1060. Most of the cards I have now, I can justify buying them as when I mine on them, they pay for themselves. Most of the cards I have are upgrades I've paid for from mining on the previous cards.

i have a machine sat outside in my caravan.. along with my desktop gaming rig it is producing "money".. no effort on my part is required.. i am seeing around $1000 per month at the moment a couple of weeks back when eth was higher i was seeing up to $1500 dollars per month.. my caravan is kept nice and warm.. no worries about frost damage and its helping heat my house..

if the same thing happens this year as last year and i hold the mined proceeds.. i could be looking at $50000 dollars or so.. from my modest mining efforts..

if things keep going as they are.. lets say i am skint and need the ready cash.. its hard to believe that the $1000 or so a month wont come in handy..

this does require a cash investment.. nothing comes totally free.. and it is all dependent on what happens to crypto prices over the coming year.. last year some of them went up by a %1000 or so..

the naysayers will shout out "that aint gonna happen".. well for sure it aint gonna happen for them.. but it just might happen for me..

does money grow on trees... dunno but it might.. he he..

i did lose 1/3 of a bitcoin current price about 4k.. that was my first three months mining and holding bitcoin.. i was a bit lapse about leaving it sat in the nicehash wallet.. a mistake i wont make again..

i mine but i am really a hodler.. which means i hoard what i have as opposed to cashing it out and spending it..

trog

ps.. there is a possibility i might get my 4K back.. nicehash say they are gonna do this.. they are gonna say when and how at the end of this month which is getting close..

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

yes but how many folks here other then RTB have done the power-usage to profit calculation in detail

I have , i quite literally pay separately for its power, and that makes budgeting quite easy ,it inspired me to move my own 8 580s from two rigs into one, plus ive spent hours fine tuning so far for efficiency, im at about 1300 watts max but fluctuations down to 900 on two psus ,jic, i definitely saved 150-300 watts with the swap and its easier to tune , looks a mess mind ill post a pic once I have slept, just got it running right now.