AMD's FreeSync Coming to Xbox Console Family

[TheGuruStud]

This is more like freesync coming to TV's via HDMI, gaming monitors have nothing to do with that. And by the way, modern TV's have all sorts of motion clarity/refresh rate interpolation technologies, who would want their TV to run at 30Hz/60Hz if they're so much more capable without freesync ?

I feel sorry for anyone buying into this "freesync is cheaper" fad, now they're stuck with Vega to use it, that is if they can even get their hands on one.

All of that processing crap makes TVs look like garbage. The first thing I do is turn it off. It stutters framerate, introduces big pixel-like blocks and/or makes shit blurry. No thanks. I can't even stand watching a scene pan, b/c it's horrendously stuttering. All of it needs to go away. Nothing will make 20 fps shitbox look ok or actions scenes better (it's impossible to see anything in actions scenes with the image completely ruined).

 

[eidairaman1]

Except Mantle is being used. The Vulkan API is built off of Mantle and DX12 is utilizing some aspects of it as well. So yeah... Mantle is a free API and after being absorbed into Vulkan is in fact being used.

I couldnt remember the other name for Mantle is why I said it, is Nv even using it?

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

I couldnt remember the other name for Mantle is why I said it, is Nv even using it?

Yes Nvidia uses it. The latest Doom game uses Vulkan and runs fine on AMD / Nvidia its actually one of the better performing games period not just in terms of visuals but in frame times (ie no stutter or lag spikes unlike say DX12 in Battlefield 1 which has hitching and stutter)

At this point in Time

Vulkan (Mantle) is used in the Following titles:

The Talos Principle
Dota 2
Doom
vkQuake
Roblox
Star Citizen (dropped DX12 in favor of Vulkan)
Mad Max (Vulkan support beta added for Linux release)
Ballistic Overkill
Ashes of a Singularity Escalation
vkDoom 3 (Vulkan port released in August 2017 as part of Doom3 BFG
Wolfenstein II The New Colossus
X4 Foundations
X-Plane 11
Rust
Serious Sam VR
Warhammer 40k Dawn of War III
X Rebirth VR
F1 2017 (Linux)
Rise of the Tomb Raider (linux)
Escape From Tarkov (Support planned worked in one patch but was removed later testing still on going)

 

[eidairaman1]

Yes Nvidia uses it. The latest Doom game uses Vulkan and runs fine on AMD / Nvidia its actually one of the better performing games period not just in terms of visuals but in frame times (ie no stutter or lag spikes unlike say DX12 in Battlefield 1 which has hitching and stutter)

At this point in Time

Vulkan (Mantle) is used in the Following titles:

The Talos Principle
Dota 2
Doom
vkQuake
Roblox
Star Citizen (dropped DX12 in favor of Vulkan)
Mad Max (Vulkan support beta added for Linux release)
Ballistic Overkill
Ashes of a Singularity Escalation
vkDoom 3 (Vulkan port released in August 2017 as part of Doom3 BFG
Wolfenstein II The New Colossus
X4 Foundations
X-Plane 11
Rust
Serious Sam VR
Warhammer 40k Dawn of War III
X Rebirth VR
F1 2017 (Linux)
Rise of the Tomb Raider (linux)
Escape From Tarkov (Support planned worked in one patch but was removed later testing still on going)

Pretty small list, I remember OGL and S3 apis being the rage in the early 2000s.

I hope thst list gets bigger because it seeams ms csnt code for nothing with DX 12 lol

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

Pretty small list, I remember OGL and S3 apis being the rage in the early 2000s.

I hope thst list gets bigger because it seeams ms csnt code for nothing with DX 12 lol

Compare it to DX12 list they are about the same. Developers are riding DX11 hard.

 

[Imsochobo]

This is more like freesync coming to TV's via HDMI, gaming monitors have nothing to do with that. And by the way, modern TV's have all sorts of motion clarity/refresh rate interpolation technologies, who would want their TV to run at 30Hz/60Hz if they're so much more capable without freesync ?

I feel sorry for anyone buying into this "freesync is cheaper" fad, now they're stuck with Vega to use it, that is if they can even get their hands on one.

Cause 400HZ and all the stuff you get on tv's is horrible stuff, it doesn't replace freesync.
That's why.

You have alot of vega chips inside consoles so don't worry about it..

They have polaris and bulldozer.

 

[Xajel]

This is more like freesync coming to TV's via HDMI, gaming monitors have nothing to do with that. And by the way, modern TV's have all sorts of motion clarity/refresh rate interpolation technologies, who would want their TV to run at 30Hz/60Hz if they're so much more capable without freesync ?

I feel sorry for anyone buying into this "freesync is cheaper" fad, now they're stuck with Vega to use it, that is if they can even get their hands on one.

Maybe you need to educate your self a little bit.. there's something called "Game Mode" in TV's, even some PC monitors... it reduces the input lag by removing all those interpolation & pre processing things... plus there are PC monitors with FreeSync enabled HDMI.. they just started to appear.

 

[john_]

It was about time. We NEED to see adaptive sync in big TVs.

 

[Vya Domus]

Vulkan (Mantle)

Vulkan is not Mantle.

They have polaris and bulldozer.

Modified Polaris and Jaguar , actually.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

Vulkan is not Mantle.



Modified Polaris and Jaguar , actually.

Vulkan is heavily based on Mantle so much for researching something right? https://www.pcworld.com/article/289...ises-from-the-ashes-as-opengls-successor.html

 

[Vya Domus]

Vulkan is heavily based on Mantle

First of my comment said explicitly "Vulakn is not Mantle" , haven't mentioned anything about how much of it is related to Mantle. But since you brought that up I would very much like you to explain in technical terms as to why it is heavily based and what that means and how does that negate my claim.

The reason being that conceptually , sure , Vulkan borrowed many ideas and concepts from Mantle , concepts which are used in every other modern graphics API including DirectX 12 and Metal which I am sure you wouldn't claim they are the same thing. But other than that , there aren't many particularities that remained untouched from Mantle and transitioned to Vulkan , even things such as error checking which seems basic at first but end up making a noticeable difference .

so much for researching something right? https://www.pcworld.com/article/289...ises-from-the-ashes-as-opengls-successor.html

Secondly , as it happens my research went much further than an article on pcworld. I happened to have written some simple stuff using Vulkan and I have first hand experience with why it isn't the same as Mantle.

 

[Durvelle27]

All of that processing crap makes TVs look like garbage. The first thing I do is turn it off. It stutters framerate, introduces big pixel-like blocks and/or makes shit blurry. No thanks. I can't even stand watching a scene pan, b/c it's horrendously stuttering. All of it needs to go away. Nothing will make 20 fps shitbox look ok or actions scenes better (it's impossible to see anything in actions scenes with the image completely ruined).

Except no modern console runs at 20FPS

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

First of my comment said explicitly "Vulakn is not Mantle" , haven't mentioned anything about how much of it is related to Mantle. But since you brought that up I would very much like you to explain in technical terms as to why it is heavily based and what that means and how does that negate my claim.

The reason being that conceptually , sure , Vulkan borrowed many ideas and concepts from Mantle , concepts which are used in every other modern graphics API including DirectX 12 and Metal which I am sure you wouldn't claim they are the same thing. But other than that , there aren't many particularities that remained untouched from Mantle and transitioned to Vulkan , even things such as error checking which seems basic at first but end up making a noticeable difference .



Secondly , as it happens my research went much further than an article on pcworld. I happened to have written some simple stuff using Vulkan and I have first hand experience with why it isn't the same as Mantle.

The organization, feature sets and how they interact with GPU are roughly the same between the two. DX12 is a bit different. You may have coded with Vulkan but I doubt you dabbled with Mantle. Mantle is Vulkan. Literally AMD handed off the Mantle API all its code and documentation to the Khronos Group in order to make it an open API and thus increase its adoption. Mantle is literally the foundation on which Vulkan is built. Without Mantle Vulkan would not be available or would likely be releasing at some point now and could have been wildly different. Many of the features and functions when compiling still use the original Mantle code. The major difference is Vulkan stripped out the mostly AMD centric / GCN specific functionality and replaced it with a vendor neutral approach. The way API calls are made are also the same in Mantle and Vulkan, where binding resources can be done via one API call rather than multiple calls. However when you boil it all down. You can take Vulkan code with the vk prefix change it to gr and generally it will compile without to many issues in the Mantle SDK.

when you take a newer API place into an older API's compiler and it works that would generally tell you just how similar it really is. Then again with multiple friends working at various game and 3D studios I will take there word for it that Vulkan is basically a better Mantle. Most of them typically use DX still however since its tied to the Microsoft ecosystem and then just port over to PS4 GNM / GNMX

 

[Vya Domus]

Mantle is Vulkan. .... The major difference is Vulkan stripped out the mostly AMD centric / GCN specific functionality and replaced it with a vendor neutral approach

I don't know if this is a matter of semantics but I cannot accept you saying "A is B" and then admitting the existence of differences.

The way you seem to look at it is , if there are enough similarities between the two such as syntax and whatnot then they are the same. Why do you think Khronos has been able to convert Vulkan code to Metal in such a penalty-free manner through MoltenVK ? Because they are all indeed very similar , but certainly not the same. Your definition of "same" is way too broad to act as a valid point.

Then again with multiple friends working at various game and 3D studios I will take there word for it that Vulkan is basically a better Mantle.

I guess you would indeed trust your friends more than a random person on the internet. But so would I, trust myself, and disagree with that knowing to have worked with these things first hand.

 

[dir_d]

This is great news. All of Samsung's 2018 TV are supposed to support VRR, hopefully that VRR is Freesync. Samsung's TVs this year are supposed to all have FALD zones as well.

 

[Crunchy005]

This is great news. All of Samsung's 2018 TV are supposed to support VRR, hopefully that VRR is Freesync. Samsung's TVs this year are supposed to all have FALD zones as well.

Freesync is merely AMDs branding on the VESA VRR standard they support and helped implement. Any TV supporting the VESA VRR HDMI or displayport standard will work with a "Freesync" compatible device. Functionality may vary now that "Freesync 2" is out for HDR support, etc. so depending on the devices involved you may not have VRR with HDR support.

 

[Tomorrow]

I feel sorry for G-Sync monitor owners, they overpaid their monitors and they can't use them with consoles

Hardly true. Overpaid? Well considering the PG279Q i own even after years has a unique feature set not matched i'd say i'm good. Besides nothing stops me from using HDMI to connect to a console. Granted i would not get G-Sync but then again i don't have a console and likely never will. Plus consoles are mostly 30 fps locked (wich makes me puke playing) with terrible input controls.

I fail to see much benefit from Freesync in a locked 30 fps scenario. Plus it still requires a Freesync 2 capable TV. Good luck finding those. And they say G-Sync monitors are scarce lol.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

I don't know if this is a matter of semantics but I cannot accept you saying "A is B" and then admitting the existence of differences.

The way you seem to look at it is , if there are enough similarities between the two such as syntax and whatnot then they are the same. Why do you think Khronos has been able to convert Vulkan code to Metal in such a penalty-free manner through MoltenVK ? Because they are all indeed very similar , but certainly not the same. Your definition of "same" is way too broad to act as a valid point.



I guess you would indeed trust your friends more than a random person on the internet. But so would I, trust myself, and disagree with that knowing to have worked with these things first hand.

Well thats up to you, The fact is Mantle provides the basis for Vulkan. Fact is changing vk to gr (vk = vulkan gr = mantle) results in a a Vulkan code base running 100% without issue via the Mantle SDK. Now I am pretty sure that would basically mean they are the same. You can't change vk to dx and get code to run properly from vulkan to direct X without a lot more leg work. Same goes from Open GL to Direct X. However when changing two letters on all the function calls results in both compiling correctly. That would mean the underlying code and functions are the same.

I guess according to your reasoning than a game engine is no longer the same with a revision and a game must be different after a patch.

Fundamentally the code base has not changed. You don't have to believe me but Ill take an industry professional working for AAA studios over a guy thats fiddled with some code. While I don't do coding in general I do however do 3D modeling / texturing and shader work. Which requires things to work a certain way for game engines to process the data correctly with proper function calls.

When it all it takes to make a Vulkan code base work with the Mantle API is to change two letters in front of the damn function calls that says it all. This was known day one Vulkan didn't really change anything they took the core of Mantle using the same function calls and features and changed two letters. Thus forming the framework and base code for Vulkan. Its been rehashed to death. The information is out there and those who wanted to learn Vulkan were fiddling like you with Mantle to begin with because the code base once again was the same.

SO I guess we can agree to disagree even if the evidence / studios / employees / coders / AMD / Khronos screams Mantle was the base for Vulkan. We are also seriously off topic at this point.

 

[Bp_968]

I feel sorry for G-Sync monitor owners, they overpaid their monitors and they can't use them with consoles

I feel sorry for console owners, they can't use a 144hz monitor like I can. Well, they can but why? I see pubg at 30fps with texture pop in and invisible houses, and no KB/M control and sigh with relief that I don't have to play that way and instead can play at 2560x1440 at a solid 144 fps and make 600 yard headshots on running targets. And play RTSs. And not pay a monthly fee for the privilege of playing online. And if I want to play on my couch at my TV I use a 25$ steam link and it's just like a console. Well a console that runs at ultra settings pegged at 60fps.

And to top it all off, I was able to pay for my video card in a few months simply by having it mine while I wasn't playing. Handy.

All that said, I do hope nvidia someday supports freesync. Gsync is *vastly* better (it's much more stringent requirements are shown in its price premium though) but freesync is, well, free. Having support for both can only help the consumer.

Adaptive sync is quite benefital below 30 or 60hz, but far less noticible above 100hz. It will be quite helpful to console owners since it will allow designers to target frame rates higher then 30 without having to be able to manage 60fps (which seems to be a common issue with consoles). And even 40-45 fps is a noticeable step up from 30fps for a fast paced game.

It's about time that NVIDIA supported FreeSync and/or made G-SYNC royalty free. It's clear that G-SYNC's days are numbered the way this is going.

Gsync requires actual hardware, it's not a software only solution. That's the primary reason for the higher cost.