• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel Shelves Z390 Express As We Knew It, Could Re-brand Z370 as Z390

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,291 (7.53/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
Intel is rumored to have shelved the iteration of its upcoming Z390 Express chipset as earlier publicized, the one which had certain new hardware features. It could now re-brand the existing Z370 Express as Z390 Express and probably bolster its reference design with heftier CPU VRM specifications, to cope better with its upcoming 8-core LGA1151 processors. The Z370 Express is similar in feature-set to the brink of being identical to its predecessor, the Z270 Express. This move could impact certain new hardware features that were on the anvil, such as significantly more USB 3.1 gen 2/gen1 ports directly from the PCH, integrated WiFi MAC, and Intel SmartSound technology, which borrowed certain concepts from edge-computing to implement native speech-to-text conversion directly on the chipset, for improved voice control latency and reduced CPU overhead.

The reasons behind this move could be a combination of last-minute cost-benefit analyses by Intel's bean-counters, and having to mass-produce Z390 Express on the busier-than-expected 14 nm silicon fabrication node, as opposed to current 300-series chipsets being built on the 22 nm node that's nearing the end of its life-cycle. Intel probably needed the switch to 14 nm for the significant increases in transistor-counts arising from the additional USB controllers, the WiFi MAC, and the SmartSound logic. Intel probably doesn't have the vacant 14 nm node capacity needed to mass-produce the Z390 yet, as its transition to future processes such as 10 nm and 7 nm are still saddled with setbacks and delays; and redesigning the Z390 (as we knew it) on 22 nm may have emerged unfeasible (i.e. the chip may have ended up too big and/or too hot). The Z390 Express chipset block-diagram, which we published in our older article has been quietly removed from Intel's website. It's also rumored that this move could force AMD to rethink its plans to launch its Z490 socket AM4 chipset.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
14,163 (3.82/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name H7 Flow 2024
Processor AMD 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus X570 Tough Gaming
Cooling Custom liquid
Memory 32 GB DDR4
Video Card(s) Intel ARC A750
Storage Crucial P5 Plus 2TB.
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Mouse Lenovo
Keyboard Eweadn Mechanical
Software W11 Pro 64 bit
Once again on AMD's coat tails, following them.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Messages
1,227 (0.50/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero WiFi
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420
Memory 32Gb G-Skill Trident Z Neo @3806MHz C14
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX2070
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 1TB
Display(s) Samsung G9 49" Curved Ultrawide
Case Cooler Master Cosmos
Audio Device(s) O2 USB Headphone AMP
Power Supply Corsair HX850i
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Cherry MX
Software Windows 11
Intel seem to be lost, and out of control.

If you don't give customers what they want, and can't be bothered to include much needed new features in to your own self-enforced CPU socket "upgrades", then maybe your customers won't be bothered to buy it...
 

Polo6RGTI_

New Member
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
5 (0.00/day)
MSI Z370 Gaming Pro Carbon BIOS showing 8 core CPU is supported.
MSI Z370 Gaming Pro Carbon BIOS.png
 

las

Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
1,693 (0.38/day)
System Name Meh
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI X670E Tomahawk
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit
Memory 32GB G.Skill @ 6000/CL30
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX 4090 Phantom / Undervolt + OC
Storage Samsung 990 Pro 2TB + WD SN850X 1TB + 64TB NAS/Server
Display(s) 27" 1440p IPS @ 360 Hz + 32" 4K/UHD QD-OLED @ 240 Hz + 77" 4K/UHD QD-OLED @ 144 Hz VRR
Case Fractal Design North XL
Audio Device(s) FiiO DAC
Power Supply Corsair RM1000x / Native 12VHPWR
Mouse Logitech G Pro Wireless Superlight + Razer Deathadder V3 Pro
Keyboard Corsair K60 Pro / MX Low Profile Speed
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Intel needs to wake up. Get 10nm working or Zen 2 @ 7nm will cap tons of marketshare early next year. Fix the terrible TIM job in the process. Atleast on the K-models.

Intel should be very happy that current Ryzen is not able to OC much and general performance (especially in games) sometimes drop post OC, because turbo boosts higher than what all core OC is capable of (eg. 2700X hits 4.35 boost stock, but all-core OC is more like 4.1ish).

Hopefully Zen 2 hits 4.5 GHz+
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Messages
1,227 (0.50/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero WiFi
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420
Memory 32Gb G-Skill Trident Z Neo @3806MHz C14
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX2070
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 1TB
Display(s) Samsung G9 49" Curved Ultrawide
Case Cooler Master Cosmos
Audio Device(s) O2 USB Headphone AMP
Power Supply Corsair HX850i
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Cherry MX
Software Windows 11
About a month ago Steve from GamersNexus said he has info from inside AMD that Z490 was axed.

What a coincidence... Makes you wonder if Intel is pressuring AMD, and forcing them to slow down... Lots of backroom deals going on, methinks!
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,532 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
Makes you wonder if Intel is pressuring AMD, and forcing them to slow down...

What magic leverage are you picturing they have over AMD?

"You'd better slow down, or we'll release the megachip?" :laugh:
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
136 (0.05/day)
What a coincidence... Makes you wonder if Intel is pressuring AMD, and forcing them to slow down... Lots of backroom deals going on, methinks!
That is perhaps not the most brilliant theory I've ever heard. A much more likely explanation is that, Intel spied to know that AMD axed their X490, and in great relief, canceled their 14nm Z390, which had already been caught in a great production mess.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
155 (0.05/day)
System Name Purple Stuff
Processor Intel Core I7-8700K @ 5.0 Ghz
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling NZXT Kraken X62
Memory Corsair Vengence 16 GB DDR4 @ 3600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus ROG Strix GTX 1080 TI
Storage Samsung EVO 960 500 GB, HDD 4TB WD Black, SSD Crucial MX400 1TB
Display(s) Acer Predator XB271HU 27" x2
Case Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass
Power Supply Seasonic Focus + Platinum 850 W
Mouse Steelseries Rival 700
Keyboard Razer Blackwidow Chroma V2
Software Win 10 Pro
What magic leverage are you picturing they have over AMD?

"You'd better slow down, or we'll release the megachip?" :laugh:

If Intel ever gets that 10nm process to work as intended AMD's in a for a bumpy ride. At this point the playing field is starting to level, let's just hope that AMD can keep up and not go into the comfort zone. Intel is far from irrelevant best to remember that, they have enough R&D budget to come up with something nice, it won't be this year though, the only thing that might be a saving grace would be the 8/16 SKU that's taping out.... if it tapes out this year .... this is from the consumer's POV. As for the other sectors, until the contracts run out Intel's gonna be fine, it's going to be fun to see what happens when said contracts are over.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
9,499 (3.27/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
This is just a bi-product of waking up to a new reality. I'm fine with this. This means innovation will be taking a step forwards.

A childish battle for names instead of focusing on products ? That's certainly an interesting definition for innovation.

If Intel ever gets that 10nm process to work as intended AMD's in a for a bumpy ride.

Not quite , AMD is certain to have 7nm products before Intel. In addition to that both nodes are fairly comparable , it's not like their process is some sort of holy grail.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
5,478 (1.05/day)
A childish battle for names instead of focusing on products ? That's certainly an interesting definition for innovation.

What i meant was that next time we should expect actual innovation, as plans for new features took a back sit.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
155 (0.05/day)
System Name Purple Stuff
Processor Intel Core I7-8700K @ 5.0 Ghz
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling NZXT Kraken X62
Memory Corsair Vengence 16 GB DDR4 @ 3600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus ROG Strix GTX 1080 TI
Storage Samsung EVO 960 500 GB, HDD 4TB WD Black, SSD Crucial MX400 1TB
Display(s) Acer Predator XB271HU 27" x2
Case Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass
Power Supply Seasonic Focus + Platinum 850 W
Mouse Steelseries Rival 700
Keyboard Razer Blackwidow Chroma V2
Software Win 10 Pro
A childish battle for names instead of focusing on products ? That's certainly an interesting definition for innovation.



Not quite , AMD is certain to have 7nm products before Intel. In addition to that both nodes are fairly comparable , it's not like their process is some sort of holy grail.

It's more dense than TSMC's node, that would be one, and the major advantage would be that the process is in-house. Then again nothing is stopping them from using TSMC's fabs anyway, they used to do it with the ATOM chips. Even a refresh of the 8th gen on 10 mn would prove to be competitive in lieu of developing a new arch.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.44/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Intel is holding a lot of cards but none of them add up to a winning score. Chipzilla knew years ago that 10nm had problems. If they were smart (and how could they not be?), they would have put plans in motion for plan B (e.g. silicon-germanium). I think they'll eventually pull a rabbit out of their hat like AMD did. I just don't know when.


It's more dense than TSMC's node, that would be one, and the major advantage would be that the process is in-house. Then again nothing is stopping them from using TSMC's fabs anyway, they used to do it with the ATOM chips. Even a refresh of the 8th gen on 10 mn would prove to be competitive in lieu of developing a new arch.
TSMC doesn't have the capacity.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
9,499 (3.27/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
Even a refresh of the 8th gen on 10 mn would prove to be competitive in lieu of developing a new arch.

Competitive or not , by the look of things it will be late. Intel doesn't seem to have a back up plan for when they don't have a leading node anymore.
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
2,731 (0.68/day)
Location
Alabama
Processor Ryzen 2600
Motherboard X470 Tachi Ultimate
Cooling AM3+ Wraith CPU cooler
Memory C.R.S.
Video Card(s) GTX 970
Software Linux Peppermint 10
Benchmark Scores Never high enough
Competitive or not , by the look of things it will be late. Intel doesn't seem to have a back up plan for when they don't have a leading node anymore.
What's kinda crazy about it all is the guy (Keller) that made Ryzen work is currently employed by Intel working on things and Intel ATM is a mess.
As long as Intel will pay him enough he'll stay and do his thing BUT I'm also sure in the end he will have a say - His credentials alone give him leverage to have it.

However it's also been said before the guy is more of a mercenary than anything, he goes where the money is.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.44/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
He's a freelancer because corporations don't want microarchitectures from scratch year after year after year. They iterate on established microarchitectures before pursuing a new one. Keller has no interest in that process.

That said, Keller is apparently senior vice president at Intel which is a cushy executive job, not engineering.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
155 (0.05/day)
System Name Purple Stuff
Processor Intel Core I7-8700K @ 5.0 Ghz
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling NZXT Kraken X62
Memory Corsair Vengence 16 GB DDR4 @ 3600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus ROG Strix GTX 1080 TI
Storage Samsung EVO 960 500 GB, HDD 4TB WD Black, SSD Crucial MX400 1TB
Display(s) Acer Predator XB271HU 27" x2
Case Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass
Power Supply Seasonic Focus + Platinum 850 W
Mouse Steelseries Rival 700
Keyboard Razer Blackwidow Chroma V2
Software Win 10 Pro
Funny thing is that Intel's 7nm is still on track. It would be funny if they decide to skip the 10, even though they would need to play second for another couple of years or so. But then again time will tell...
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
9,499 (3.27/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
What's kinda crazy about it all is the guy (Keller) that made Ryzen work is currently employed by Intel working on things and Intel ATM is a mess.
As long as Intel will pay him enough he'll stay and do his thing BUT I'm also sure in the end he will have a say - His credentials alone give him leverage to have it.

If they would have had a new architecture they would have at least announced/leaked it by now in order to calm down investors and such.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
1,793 (0.46/day)
Unlikely. Z390 is just existing Q370 with OC capabilities turned on. Maybe they are confused after seeing eight core cpu running on z370. So I don't buy that rename bit at all. It might be cancelled altogether rather than rename kaby point chipset to z390.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,837 (3.95/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
Since it was a slight update to Z170, I doubt anyone will miss this.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
5,047 (0.94/day)
Location
Iberian Peninsula
Dull panorama...
Somewhat off topic: how well did I do ordering an X299 yesterday to bring some excitement to my basement matrix :)
 

las

Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
1,693 (0.38/day)
System Name Meh
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI X670E Tomahawk
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit
Memory 32GB G.Skill @ 6000/CL30
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX 4090 Phantom / Undervolt + OC
Storage Samsung 990 Pro 2TB + WD SN850X 1TB + 64TB NAS/Server
Display(s) 27" 1440p IPS @ 360 Hz + 32" 4K/UHD QD-OLED @ 240 Hz + 77" 4K/UHD QD-OLED @ 144 Hz VRR
Case Fractal Design North XL
Audio Device(s) FiiO DAC
Power Supply Corsair RM1000x / Native 12VHPWR
Mouse Logitech G Pro Wireless Superlight + Razer Deathadder V3 Pro
Keyboard Corsair K60 Pro / MX Low Profile Speed
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Competitive or not , by the look of things it will be late. Intel doesn't seem to have a back up plan for when they don't have a leading node anymore.

From what I'm reading and watching on YouTube, it sounds like Intel's 10nm is more advanced than TSMC 7nm.
Intel 14nm is also more advanced than GloFo 12nm.

Marketing "nm" I guess...
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,837 (3.95/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
From what I'm reading and watching on YouTube, it sounds like Intel's 10nm is more advanced than TSMC 7nm.
Intel 14nm is also more advanced than GloFo 12nm.

Marketing "nm" I guess...
Yeah, it's getting increasingly more complicate to compare. And yet, as Hector Ruiz himself once said: "customers aren't buying nanometers".
Does anyone remember today how Vega was supposed to draw less power because it was built on 14nm (as opposed to Pascal's 16nm)? We can never infer anything meaningful from these numbers, yet somehow we keep trying...
 
Last edited:
Top