• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

NVIDIA Does a TrueAudio: RT Cores Also Compute Sound Ray-tracing

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,229 (7.55/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
Positional audio, like Socialism, follows a cycle of glamorization and investment every few years. Back in 2011-12 when AMD maintained a relatively stronger position in the discrete GPU market, and held GPGPU superiority, it gave a lot of money to GenAudio and Tensilica to co-develop the TrueAudio technology, a GPU-accelerated positional audio DSP, which had a whopping four game title implementations, including and limited to "Thief," "Star Citizen," "Lichdom: Battlemage," and "Murdered: Soul Suspect." The TrueAudio Next DSP which debuted with "Polaris," introduced GPU-accelerated "audio ray-casting" technology, which assumes that audio waves interact differently with different surfaces, much like light; and hence positional audio could be made more realistic. There were a grand total of zero takers for TrueAudio Next. Riding on the presumed success of its RTX technology, NVIDIA wants to develop audio ray-tracing further.

A very curious sentence caught our eye in NVIDIA's micro-site for Turing. The description of RT cores reads that they are specialized components that "accelerate the computation of how light and sound travel in 3D environments at up to 10 Giga Rays per second." This is an ominous sign that NVIDIA is developing a full-blown positional audio programming model that's part of RTX, with an implementation through GameWorks. Such a technology, like TrueAudio Next, could improve positional audio realism by treating sound waves like light and tracing their paths from their origin (think speech from an NPC in a game), to the listener as the sound bounces off the various surfaces in the 3D scene. Real-time ray-tracing(-ish) has captured the entirety of imagination at NVIDIA marketing to the extent that it is allegedly willing to replace "GTX" with "RTX" in its GeForce GPU nomenclature. We don't mean to doomsay emerging technology, but 20 years of development in positional audio has shown that it's better left to game developers to create their own technology that sounds somewhat real; and that initiatives from makers of discrete sound cards (a device on the brink of extinction) and GPUs makers bore no fruit.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
2,089 (0.29/day)
Location
gehenna
System Name Commercial towing vehicle "Nostromo"
Processor 5800X3D
Motherboard X570 Unify
Cooling EK-AIO 360
Memory 32 GB Fury 3666 MHz
Video Card(s) 4070 Ti Eagle
Storage SN850 NVMe 1TB + Renegade NVMe 2TB + 870 EVO 4TB
Display(s) 25" Legion Y25g-30 360Hz
Case Lian Li LanCool 216 v2
Audio Device(s) Razer Blackshark v2 Hyperspeed / Bowers & Wilkins Px7 S2e
Power Supply HX1500i
Mouse Harpe Ace Aim Lab Edition
Keyboard Scope II 96 Wireless
Software Windows 11 23H2 / Fedora w. KDE
IMO it only makes sense in VR environments or when using Surround ... or maybe i missed a point?
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
3,890 (0.82/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK
Cooling AMD Wraith Prism
Memory Team Group Dark Pro 8Pack Edition 3600Mhz CL16
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 FE
Storage Kingston A2000 1TB + Seagate HDD workhorse
Display(s) Samsung 50" QN94A Neo QLED
Case Antec 1200
Power Supply Seasonic Focus GX-850
Mouse Razer Deathadder Chroma
Keyboard Logitech UltraX
Software Windows 11
Forgot TrueAudio existed! :eek:
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.46/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
The problem is the lack of framework to do it (e.g. core support in engines). If that doesn't change, whatever NVIDIA comes up with won't fare much better.
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
264 (0.07/day)
On one hand, it's great that finally a company that can't be patent trolled into bankruptcy by Creative stepped up to resume 3D audio development.

On the other hand, nvidia will probably bury this under gimpworks.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
20 (0.01/day)
IMO it only makes sense in VR environments or when using Surround ... or maybe i missed a point?
It makes sense immediately when you put your headphones on. It'll matter less with stereo speakers but even then I'd imagine there would be some value to it.

I'm blaming consoles of the current state of audio design. It's not worth it to create accurate positional audio if most of the players are using cheapo TV-speakers.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
555 (0.16/day)
Location
In the middle of nowhere
System Name Scrapped Parts, Unite !
Processor Ryzen 5 3600 @4.0 Ghz
Motherboard MSI B450-A Pro MAX
Cooling Stock
Memory Team Group Elite 16 GB 3133Mhz
Video Card(s) Colorful iGame GeForce GTX1060 Vulcan U 6G
Storage Hitachi 500 GB, Sony 1TB, KINGSTON 400A 120GB // Samsung 160 GB
Display(s) HP 2009f
Case Xigmatek Asgard Pro // Cooler Master Centurion 5
Power Supply OCZ ModXStream Pro 500 W
Mouse Logitech G102
Software Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores Minesweeper 30fps, Tetris 40 fps, with overheated CPU and GPU
Pardon my ignorance, but I think TrueAudio is trademarked as one of AMD IP?
if I am not wrong, TrueAudio technology existed since HD 7800 series chip AMD just enabled it in R9 200 series
will Nvidia get into trouble by using that name again?
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,424 (6.03/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
Nvidia working hard to increase fake value of their new generation of cards.

Don't fall for it bois
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.88/day)
Congratulations, everyone reinventing everything we already had with audio freaking 20 years ago with Aureal Vortex 2 that was doing source based audio tracing. And few years later, Creative with EAX 3.0 doing the same thing. Then everyone dropped this advance stuff for software garbage and now they are again reinventing the wheel of HW accelerated audio. How about not killing good stuff in the first place?
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
1,793 (0.46/day)
Congratulations, everyone reinventing everything we already had with audio freaking 20 years ago with Aureal Vortex 2 that was doing source based audio tracing. And few years later, Creative with EAX 3.0 doing the same thing. Then everyone dropped this advance stuff for software garbage and now they are again reinventing the wheel of HW accelerated audio. How about not killing good stuff in the first place?

Yeah you can blame Microsoft for that.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.88/day)
Would be nice if NVIDIA and AMD would stop twiddling with their manly appendages and both start using TrueAudio Next. Just for once, do something for the greater good of gaming industry, will ya?
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
9,428 (3.28/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
Nvidia working hard to increase fake value of their new generation of cards.

Don't fall for it bois

Worry not, we're not in the mid 90's anymore when new audio technology was actually exciting. Hardly anyone cares about this stuff nowadays.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
5,545 (0.96/day)
System Name Cyberline
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k -> 12600k
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE Rev 3.0 -> Gigabyte Z690 Auros Elite DDR4
Cooling Tuniq Tower 120 -> Custom Watercoolingloop
Memory Corsair (4x2) 8gb 1600mhz -> Crucial (8x2) 16gb 3600mhz
Video Card(s) AMD RX480 -> RX7800XT
Storage Samsung 750 Evo 250gb SSD + WD 1tb x 2 + WD 2tb -> 2tb MVMe SSD
Display(s) Philips 32inch LPF5605H (television) -> Dell S3220DGF
Case antec 600 -> Thermaltake Tenor HTCP case
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 (USB)
Power Supply Seasonic 620watt 80+ Platinum
Mouse Elecom EX-G
Keyboard Rapoo V700
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
I dont care who does it, anything that would emphasis an evolution in sound quality is music to my ears
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
625 (0.24/day)
Sound became a second class, well third class citizen for games and immersion. I was disappointed too at Microsoft and Creative in helping kill off true hardware acceleration. Everyone forgot what the true potential and benefit of soundcards were. So discussions later got bogged down by just fidelity (DACs and amps). But I'm glad it's being pushed again, at least from Nvidia's direction.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
9 (0.00/day)
System Name Workhorse
Processor Ryzen 1800X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VI Hero
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) Gainward GTX1080
Storage 3xSSDs, 2xHDD
Display(s) PG279Q
Case NZXT H2
Audio Device(s) Powercolor Devil HDX
Power Supply Dark Power Pro 10
Mouse G700
Keyboard Logitech Illuminated Kb
Congratulations, everyone reinventing everything we already had with audio freaking 20 years ago with Aureal Vortex 2 that was doing source based audio tracing. And few years later, Creative with EAX 3.0 doing the same thing. Then everyone dropped this advance stuff for software garbage and now they are again reinventing the wheel of HW accelerated audio. How about not killing good stuff in the first place?

EAX does reverbs to simulate different types of environments but it's not aware of shapes, obstacles or different materials in one place.
 

T4C Fantasy

CPU & GPU DB Maintainer
Staff member
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
2,566 (0.56/day)
Location
Rhode Island
System Name Whaaaat Kiiiiiiid!
Processor Intel Core i9-12900K @ Default
Motherboard Gigabyte Z690 AORUS Elite AX
Cooling Corsair H150i AIO Cooler
Memory Corsair Dominator Platinum 32GB DDR4-3200
Video Card(s) EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA @ Default
Storage Samsung 970 PRO 512GB + Crucial MX500 2TB x3 + Crucial MX500 4TB + Samsung 980 PRO 1TB
Display(s) 27" LG 27MU67-B 4K, + 27" Acer Predator XB271HU 1440P
Case Thermaltake Core X9 Snow
Audio Device(s) Logitech G935 Headset
Power Supply SeaSonic Platinum 1050W Snow Silent
Mouse Logitech G903 Lightspeed
Keyboard Logitech G915
Software Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores FFXV: 19329
I just want to know how many rt cores are in the dies
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
494 (0.17/day)
Would be nice if NVIDIA and AMD would stop twiddling with their manly appendages and both start using TrueAudio Next. Just for once, do something for the greater good of gaming industry, will ya?
I don't think the majority of developers would use either unless they could be automated in a couple clicks.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.88/day)
I don't think the majority of developers would use either unless they could be automated in a couple clicks.

FMOD guys need to implement it in their audio engine given most games use FMOD. But in software form, it's just garbage. It's why all games with it sound so flat and boring it's like we're back in 1995 before EAX happened...
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.21/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Im expecting a dx12 sound based update imminently tbh like when Raytracing got announced as a new Nvidia feature ten minutes before M$ made it a dx12 feature.
That could help with adoption, but given Amds and tencillicas grasp on consoles id wager true audio see's more use.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.46/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
It need only be compatible with GCN. GCN can async it.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.88/day)
EAX does reverbs to simulate different types of environments but it's not aware of shapes, obstacles or different materials in one place.

The old myth of "EAX only does reverbs". Well, that myth has been debunked endless times because since EAX 3.0 HD, it also does actual sound tracing, reflection and occlusion and also applying reverb and spatial effects. Multiple in fact.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
2,985 (0.78/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X ||| Intel Core i7-3930K
Motherboard ASUS ProArt B550-CREATOR ||| Asus P9X79 WS
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S ||| Be Quiet Pure Rock
Memory Crucial 2 x 16 GB 3200 MHz ||| Corsair 8 x 8 GB 1333 MHz
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1060 3GB ||| MSI GTX 680 4GB
Storage Samsung 970 PRO 512 GB + 1 TB ||| Intel 545s 512 GB + 256 GB
Display(s) Asus ROG Swift PG278QR 27" ||| Eizo EV2416W 24"
Case Fractal Design Define 7 XL x 2
Audio Device(s) Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
Power Supply Seasonic Focus PX-850 x 2
Mouse Razer Abyssus
Keyboard CM Storm QuickFire XT
Software Ubuntu
Advancements in audio acceleration is certainly appreciated. But I will reserve judgment until I've seen the details, unlike most in this thread. And I would welcome competition, even if AMD have a competing technology.

Everyone auto-bashing Nvidia, please stop for a moment and consider if the shoe were on the other foot. If AMD were releasing a raytracing GPU, you'd be singing endless high praises…
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,946 (0.63/day)
Location
Police/Nanny State of America
Processor OCed 5800X3D
Motherboard Asucks C6H
Cooling Air
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) OCed 6800XT
Storage NVMees
Display(s) 32" Dull curved 1440
Case Freebie glass idk
Audio Device(s) Sennheiser
Power Supply Don't even remember
Advancements in audio acceleration is certainly appreciated. But I will reserve judgment until I've seen the details, unlike most in this thread. And I would welcome competition, even if AMD have a competing technology.

Everyone auto-bashing Nvidia, please stop for a moment and consider if the shoe were on the other foot. If AMD were releasing a raytracing GPU, you'd be singing endless high praises…

We wouldn't if they're just gonna jack prices, sacrifice gaming perf by losing die space and locking down new features (while making more tarded gimpworks for it, RT in games is still useless).

When it comes to consumer products, nvidia is a marketing company first like apple.
 
Top