• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

NVIDIA Does a TrueAudio: RT Cores Also Compute Sound Ray-tracing

Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
2,999 (0.78/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X ||| Intel Core i7-3930K
Motherboard ASUS ProArt B550-CREATOR ||| Asus P9X79 WS
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S ||| Be Quiet Pure Rock
Memory Crucial 2 x 16 GB 3200 MHz ||| Corsair 8 x 8 GB 1333 MHz
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1060 3GB ||| MSI GTX 680 4GB
Storage Samsung 970 PRO 512 GB + 1 TB ||| Intel 545s 512 GB + 256 GB
Display(s) Asus ROG Swift PG278QR 27" ||| Eizo EV2416W 24"
Case Fractal Design Define 7 XL x 2
Audio Device(s) Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
Power Supply Seasonic Focus PX-850 x 2
Mouse Razer Abyssus
Keyboard CM Storm QuickFire XT
Software Ubuntu
We wouldn't if they're just gonna jack prices, sacrifice gaming perf by losing die space and locking down new features (while making more tarded gimpworks for it, RT in games is still useless).
GPU prices have been flat for over 10 years, and it's many years since AMD really competed…

When it comes to consumer products, nvidia is a marketing company first like apple.
Compared to AMD's GPU division, which is nearly marketing only at this point, Nvidia doesn't create nearly as much hype as AMD have for their failed Vega and Polaris.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,946 (0.62/day)
Location
Police/Nanny State of America
Processor OCed 5800X3D
Motherboard Asucks C6H
Cooling Air
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) OCed 6800XT
Storage NVMees
Display(s) 32" Dull curved 1440
Case Freebie glass idk
Audio Device(s) Sennheiser
Power Supply Don't even remember
GPU prices have been flat for over 10 years, and it's many years since AMD really competed…


Compared to AMD's GPU division, which is nearly marketing only at this point, Nvidia doesn't create nearly as much hype as AMD have for their failed Vega and Polaris.
What do you call all the gimpworks stuff that does nothing good? Lol Hell, physx was useful, but they used it purely for marketing by allowing it to basically only run on the card and killed it! They don't care one iota about anything other than mindshare. DX11 won't die for another decade at this rate.

Flat my ass.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
2,999 (0.78/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X ||| Intel Core i7-3930K
Motherboard ASUS ProArt B550-CREATOR ||| Asus P9X79 WS
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S ||| Be Quiet Pure Rock
Memory Crucial 2 x 16 GB 3200 MHz ||| Corsair 8 x 8 GB 1333 MHz
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1060 3GB ||| MSI GTX 680 4GB
Storage Samsung 970 PRO 512 GB + 1 TB ||| Intel 545s 512 GB + 256 GB
Display(s) Asus ROG Swift PG278QR 27" ||| Eizo EV2416W 24"
Case Fractal Design Define 7 XL x 2
Audio Device(s) Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
Power Supply Seasonic Focus PX-850 x 2
Mouse Razer Abyssus
Keyboard CM Storm QuickFire XT
Software Ubuntu
Flat my ass.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,780 (1.40/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
Appreciated what nGreedia is doing, however I really hope we don't have to use their card as a soundcard by phisically plugin the speakers into it. I prefer my X-Fi Titanium for that, thank you, which supports the much better EAX 5.0 and OpenAL EFX, but if nVidia will also provide a pasthrough path of the 3D sound from GPU to the dedicated Sound Card, that would be not just great but utterly awesome!

P.S.

I really miss the awesome 3D sound from games such as Unreal, Thief, FEAR, Stalker, Mass Effect 1, Bioshock, Battlefield 2 (the explosions and bullet sounds were incredible), etc, etc. I do hope I can experience again simmilar enviroments.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,946 (0.62/day)
Location
Police/Nanny State of America
Processor OCed 5800X3D
Motherboard Asucks C6H
Cooling Air
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) OCed 6800XT
Storage NVMees
Display(s) 32" Dull curved 1440
Case Freebie glass idk
Audio Device(s) Sennheiser
Power Supply Don't even remember
Yes, thank you for proving my point. A lot of 500s in there while production costs have plummeted.
The outliers were massive dies and they needed high cost for sweet profit. 8800 ultra demanded it based on perf alone. Now, you're getting fractional perf increases at increased prices while their margins increase. Kinda reminds me of ram/flash... Meanwhile on the CPU side...
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
569 (0.12/day)
Processor i5 4670K - @ 4.8GHZ core
Motherboard MSI Z87 G43
Cooling Thermalright Ultra-120 *(Modded to fit on this motherboard)
Memory 16GB 2400MHZ
Video Card(s) HD7970 GHZ edition Sapphire
Storage Samsung 120GB 850 EVO & 4X 2TB HDD (Seagate)
Display(s) 42" Panasonice LED TV @120Hz
Case Corsair 200R
Audio Device(s) Xfi Xtreme Music with Hyper X Core
Power Supply Cooler Master 700 Watts
Till the time we are receiving audio from HDMI and not dedicated audio pin in Graphic cards these techs are useless for the gamers who are using dedicated audio card to power their Headphones or Audio systems.
 
Last edited:

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.43/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
All audio on Windows lives on the audio stack. It can take from any source and feed to any output. Audio effects applied by devices in hardware could exaggerate the effect though, yes.
 

hat

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
21,747 (3.29/day)
Location
Ohio
System Name Starlifter :: Dragonfly
Processor i7 2600k 4.4GHz :: i5 10400
Motherboard ASUS P8P67 Pro :: ASUS Prime H570-Plus
Cooling Cryorig M9 :: Stock
Memory 4x4GB DDR3 2133 :: 2x8GB DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) PNY GTX1070 :: Integrated UHD 630
Storage Crucial MX500 1TB, 2x1TB Seagate RAID 0 :: Mushkin Enhanced 60GB SSD, 3x4TB Seagate HDD RAID5
Display(s) Onn 165hz 1080p :: Acer 1080p
Case Antec SOHO 1030B :: Old White Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro - Bose Companion 2 Series III :: None
Power Supply FSP Hydro GE 550w :: EVGA Supernova 550
Software Windows 10 Pro - Plex Server on Dragonfly
Benchmark Scores >9000
Till the time we are receiving audio from HDMI and not dedicated audio pin in Graphic cards these techs are useless for the gamers who are using dedicated audio card to power their Headphones or Audio systems.

Er... what? You've been able to get audio through your card's HDMI for at least a decade now. Not sure what you mean by "dedicated audio pin", unless you mean that S/PDIF header that connected to older nVidia cards, like the GTX200 series. AMD beat them to piping audio over HDMI and doing all audio processing on the card without the need of that cable, but nVidia cards even have had this for a very long time now.

But yeah, good audio is long gone. Multiple entities are to blame for that. Microsoft took a good chunk out of it starting with Vista; XP was the last OS that allowed true hardware audio processing. I'm not even sure if having a sound card offloads sound processing from the CPU and freeing up CPU clock cycles anymore. HDMI did a number on it as well. As it stands, we have good old Analog, which is quite outdated and not really supported anymore, S/PDIF (coaxial or optical, usually optical though) which is still hanging around, but only good for stereo uncompressed, or only up to 5.1 by DTS, and HDMI, which can handle a ton of uncompressed audio, but must have a video signal to go with it. That means if you want HDMI PC audio, you've got to have a receiver that can handle whatever screen you want. If you like 120hz or better, or worse yet, 4k at 120hz or better, you're gonna need one hell of a receiver to handle that.

I'd rather be reading about a new kind of high end audio connectivity that doesn't need to piggyback off anything like HDMI does. I guess these days that's called a good sound card and a receiver with plenty of analog inputs...
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.43/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Pretty sure graphics cards just have HDMI audio pass thru from the Windows audio stack. There is no DSP going on unless something else in the audio stack does it before being sent to the HDMI out.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/windows-audio-architecture

"Audio Engine" is what I'm talking about. The only thing *anything* can change is the "Audio Effects." Everything else is fundamentally a multi-channel PCM signal.

I believe ray traced audio is applied via an "audio effect" in the "audio engine." Game engine takes information about the the environment and tweaks the audio effect that is played back in real time using GPU compute code.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,780 (1.40/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
So how exactly does the processed 3D hardware accelerated sound from the GPU it's getting forwarded to the dedicated sound card? Thanks/
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,747 (6.05/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
System Name Tiny the White Yeti
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling CPU: Thermalright Peerless Assassin / Case: Phanteks T30-120 x3
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
VR HMD HD 420 - Green Edition ;)
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
Worry not, we're not in the mid 90's anymore when new audio technology was actually exciting. Hardly anyone cares about this stuff nowadays.

But its 'artificially intelligent audio now' :D The audio is alive, the soundwaves are literally analysing the gunk in your ears and form the best sound based on how they bounce off. Then they ray trace straight into your brain so your body can fully synchronize with the action at the speed of light.. even though its sound... :rockout:

Yes, thank you for proving my point. A lot of 500s in there while production costs have plummeted.
The outliers were massive dies and they needed high cost for sweet profit. 8800 ultra demanded it based on perf alone. Now, you're getting fractional perf increases at increased prices while their margins increase. Kinda reminds me of ram/flash... Meanwhile on the CPU side...

The 'outliers'... like 780ti? / Titan? Oh wait, its 700... followed by a 650 alternative that was much faster after that. Has it occurred to you that there is almost 20 (!) years worth of inflation in there as well? And that at equal price, the same performance as last gen has become that much cheaper every time?

But a nearly 1k 8800 ultra, that's fine. Because hey, its old and everything was difficult back then. As if Nvidia totally didn't have 7 generations prior to it in the chart.

Your logic is awesome. Nvidia does obviously play around with pricing but it simply isn't true that their GPUs get 'more expensive' all the time. Pascal saw a price bump, prior to that, nothing tangible.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.43/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
So how exactly does the processed 3D hardware accelerated sound from the GPU it's getting forwarded to the dedicated sound card? Thanks/
I ignored something obvious in my last post...and probably where ray traced audio is executed: at the top of the stack in the application layer. The game itself would use it's knowledge of the environment and the sources of the sound to play the PCM and bounce the audio around to the player's position where the theoretical signals that the reach the player are sent into the audio stack as PCM.

It stands to reason that you wouldn't want *any* environmental audio effects enabled in the audio engine nor the hardware if you're using ray traced audio because the sounds are pre-processed for environmental effects.

Sound card has no idea that the PCM it is receiving was ray traced unless something is added to the audio stack the flags it as such.


It needs to be duly noted that ray tracing sound is far more complex than ray tracing light because sound is a pressure wave, not radiation. Pressure waves need to calculate for density (air and object) rather than reflectivity. Where ray tracing light can work based off of meshes games already use (just need to assign a reflectivity to each mesh), ray tracing sound requires (unless they cheat, then what's the point?) 3D modeling of spaces the player can't see. For example, the cavities in a studded, sheetrock wall will create a different sound profile than a wall of bricks. Further, the thickness of both can hugely vary what the sound is like especially on the other side.

Imagine 6 panes of glass in a line, one after the other, in a sound deadening box. You clap your hands in front of the first while recording the sound after each one. Each pane of glass makes it sound different because sound is vibrations. By the time you reach the last pane, there is nothing at all. Simply designing a house with double or triple paned glass, gas filled or not, noticeably changes the sound profile.

Said differently: ray tracing light is very expensive on hardware but relatively cheap for developers. Ray tracing sound is relatively cheap on hardware but ridiculously expensive for developers to properly implement. In both cases, this is tech that really needs to be integrated into game engines before it can be widely used. Unreal Engine 4 can take care of the sound problems via templates.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
625 (0.23/day)
I believe they improved the audio stack in Win8 (so Win10) from Win7. Hopefully this leads to MS making more changes. I keep putting in the recommendation for true sound hardware acceleration on the feedback app. But doubt it did anything.

Windows 8






Windows 10


 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,444 (4.68/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Processor 7800X3D -25 all core
Motherboard B650 Steel Legend
Cooling Frost Commander 140
Video Card(s) Merc 310 7900 XT @3100 core -.75v
Display(s) Agon 27" QD-OLED Glossy 240hz 1440p
Case NZXT H710 (Red/Black)
Audio Device(s) Asgard 2, Modi 3, HD58X
Power Supply Corsair RM850x Gold
and yet, it still won't sound as good as my Hifiman Ananda $1 grand headphone with Schiit Lyr 3 $650 headphone amp/dac. lol. analog high end is the only way to game ~
 

AsRock

TPU addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
19,114 (2.99/day)
Location
UK\USA
I dont care who does it, anything that would emphasis an evolution in sound quality is music to my ears

Maybe you should care, if nVidia did some thing actually special you really think it will not be locked down for nVidia users only.
 
Top