2K Brazenly Asks Belgian Fans to Contact Local Government on Loot Box Ban

[Vayra86]

Oh, you're absolutely right. The reason for the implementation of loot boxes has nothing to do with gameplay value, and everything to do with the simple fact that letting people pay to gamble makes you a ton of money.

I wouldn't necessarily mind the existence of the option to pay for advantages like skipping some of the grind in MMOs and the like, if the prices (and advantages) were within reason and you knew what you were paying for. Not all people have the time to spend hundreds of hours in every game they want to play, so providing for-pay "shortcuts" isn't a bad thing per se (even if this too has some very dubious attributes). Having people pay for cosmetic upgrades is ... problematic (especially when it targets kids and teens, to whom coolness and status are of ridiculous importance, and who haven't yet learnt the value of money), but not outright evil. Lootboxes, though? That is just pure greed and malice, whether what you get in them is purely cosmetic or actually gives an advantage in the game. If the latter is the case, it has the same potential to undermine the balance of the game as outright purchases. And in any case, the only reason for them to exist is this: why have people pay for the thing they want, when you can get them to pay for a chance at the thing they want? Playing off vulnerabilities in human psychology for profit? As I said: greed and malice.

And yet, skipping part of the grind in an MMO through a *paid* advantage is precisely the same greed and malice, except watered down a little bit - but if you think it through there is no 'grey' area. Why would they not make the MMO grind less so more people with less time can get to the endgame just as easily as the rest? Because it makes money. It has nothing to do with gameplay or replay value at all - the entire point of an MMO is to repeat content anyway.

So while it may 'feel' less malicious to not put gameplay advantages in a lootbox, it really isn't. It's just part of the illusion of progress to keep you coming back for more. The exact same psychology, really. Experienced firsthand, learned a few things, it really is all the same just packaged differently and if there is one thing I'll teach my kids, its to stay far away from that. I could care less about guts and gore, but this, this is just not happening. I sincerely hope but also believe this practice will land in the gutter, it just needs time, and banning lootboxes is only the first step.

 

[Frick]

And yet, thát is precisely the core of the problem with lootboxes. Ingame mechanics and loot that directly affects gameplay is monetized, and the lootbox is just an iteration of that monetization. And every game that has it, becomes pay to win no matter how you twist it. And it handily destroys any online community, while making any offline gameplay 'pay to cheat'. Even the tiniest advantage, say 5% extra cash per purchase, would eventually grow into the same behemoth and cause the same effect. Players will multiply any advantage they can gain as long as their budget allows. Seen it happen..

I just cannot fathom how this is in any way positive or 'okay' to anyone. You have got to be extremely dim witted to see paid cheats as an advantage. Especially in a mostly offline game; eg. ME: Shadows of War...

Imagine the next Borderlands with top-end gear purchasable from the shop - hidden behind a lootbox or not - it would destroy the entire game's purpose.

You have good points, but I still don't see the problem as you describe it. I'm addicted to Grim Dawn atm, and I wouldn't be upset at all if the devs made legendery stuff avaliable for purchase instead of you having to grind for them. I play the game for enjoyment, if others are running around with bought high end equipment I could not care less. Introducing stuff you can't get by reasonable grinding I wouldn't like, unless it's purely cosmetic stuff, but if I can get the same result from just playing the game I really don't mind.

EDIT: Is it greedy of the devs/publishers? Oh yes. Immoral? Likely. Would the games be better off without them? Sure. And personally I still don't mind the practice.

 

[Vayra86]

You have good points, but I still don't see the problem as you describe it. I'm addicted to Grim Dawn atm, and I wouldn't be upset at all if the devs made legendery stuff avaliable for purchase instead of you having to grind for them. I play the game for enjoyment, if others are running around with bought high end equipment I could not care less. Introducing stuff you can't get by reasonable grinding I wouldn't like, unless it's purely cosmetic stuff, but if I can get the same result from just playing the game I really don't mind.

Nice, you got good taste Just pushed a Mage Hunter to lv 97 last week

But Grim Dawn is one game that is a great example of old school time-sink principles, with decent drop rates and no real hidden economy to make money off your ass by spoonfeeding nice things. Pay to win in that game just wouldn't work all too well because it rewards normal playtime too well. It CAN work that way because the focus of the game is on offline gameplay. Perhaps some co-op. But there is no open online community in-game.

The thing is, games that DO employ pay to win items don't have that balance. And, since we're on about ARPGs, look at how it can ALSO be done with Path of Exile: free to play, and anything you buy is never a direct gameplay advantage. The best you can get is stash space. And it just. Works. Great. Whether you pay or don't pay, the game is fun.

 

[Frick]

Nice, you got good taste Just pushed a Mage Hunter to lv 97 last week

But Grim Dawn is one game that is a great example of old school time-sink principles, with decent drop rates and no real hidden economy to make money off your ass by spoonfeeding nice things. Pay to win in that game just wouldn't work all too well because it rewards normal playtime too well.

The thing is, games that DO employ pay to win items don't have that balance.

I just rolled a Mage Hunter, dual wielding pistoleer. It's awesome.

But yeah on the whole it's a bad thing, but I wouldn't say it's universally bad. Fallout Shelter, for example, works pretty fine imo.

 

[Vayra86]

I just rolled a Mage Hunter, dual wielding pistoleer. It's awesome.

But yeah on the whole it's a bad thing, but I wouldn't say it's universally bad. Fallout Shelter, for example, works pretty fine imo.

Offtopic, but... max out Word of Pain and build fully Elemental... that's how I did it. Click to nuke entire screen Sitting at 2000% Elemental dmg for 20k Word of Pain with 8m radius right now... Those pistols are just bonus. Flames of Ignaffar is also super viable, you can build that in a hundred different ways...

 

[RejZoR]

I can't even be bothered to read it. Short answer, NO. Long answer, also NO. Loot box is lazy ass way of milking dumb people for zero work and as whole quality of whole game suffers because they in the end only care about the loot boxes and nothing else. There are rare exceptions like Killing Floor 2, but I frankly would rather see all gone than have exceptions. Cheering for it as consumers has to be the dumbest thing ever and I hope as hell Belgians don' do it at all.

 

[StrayKAT]

It's funny that they make their appeals directly to the players.. AS IF it was just the governments who caused this.

The governments wouldn't have even known about it if there wasn't a stir amongst the players first.