More Clarity on 9th Gen Core Processor Pricing Emerges

[Metroid]

Yes, definitely.
HT mostly benefits synthetic benchmarks and certain server workloads. For gaming it usually hurts performance, especially in terms of latency and stutter. Paying ~$100 extra over 9700K just for HT is pretty wasteful, even for applications where HT is beneficial, since those workloads scale even better with even more cores.

Most of these trolls dont want for gaming, they just want to show off, so for them i9 9900 is better than the i7 9700 which is false regarding games or anything that requires a pure single threaded application.

 

[ratirt]

Hi everybody.
I think that the 9900k isn't bad it is actually very good, but I wonder what's next? Somebody mentioned that these new cpu's, Intel is squeezing all the juice there is. Ryzen in my opinion has way more potential here. As you already know, and you've seen some benchmarks for 9700k and 9900k the difference from the older 8700k (in games) is practically nonexistent. So, would my assumption be true or is it just a meaningless refreshment from Intel again?

 

[las]

@las & @dwade

1440p gaming.... with some CPU's...

3 games at random (there were others). But the point is valid. Where is the 10% difference? This is for a 2700X of course, as it is the competitor for what's coming. But using the very similar core 8700k, you can get the picture.

Now, if you still want to argue about fps and how bad AMD is as a gaming chip, feel free. But you'll need to specify at max 1080p or 720p resolutions.

Here's BF1 at 720p

Really bad performance there.

But yes, overall, Intel is better but there's no credible way to say AMD is crap at gaming... That's some serious bullshit you're rubbing in your eyes.

OMG Ryzen is awesome. Please show me more cherrypicked benchmarks.

I have ordered B450 + 2600! Looking forward to smooth gaming. THANK YOU GUYS.

Hi everybody.
I think that the 9900k isn't bad it is actually very good, but I wonder what's next? Somebody mentioned that these new cpu's, Intel is squeezing all the juice there is. Ryzen in my opinion has way more potential here. As you already know, and you've seen some benchmarks for 9700k and 9900k the difference from the older 8700k (in games) is practically nonexistent. So, would my assumption be true or is it just a meaningless refreshment from Intel again?

Next is 10nm and new naming scheme.

Meaningless? The 9th gen K models have STIM / Solder. 3rd to 8th gen is using pigeon poop and needs delid. So...

Who would buy a 9700k at this point? The 8700k wins, you can delid and get it up to around 4.8ghz with ease there's no point in paying a massive amount more and at it's current pricing the 9900k is a waste, 500 for a 8c16t? If your doing stuff other than gaming to need a 9900k you may as well grab a 7900x and x299 mobo, Since it'll be superior for productivity.

Why the hell would people buy 8700K and delid, void warrenty etc. Delidding aint free either.

8C >>> 6C/12T

HT is bugged. Foreshadow bug.

HT lowers gaming perf. Search youtube for 8700K HT on vs off. tons of proof. It's crap for gaming.

are resolution like 360x240 (or less) also ok to measure bottleneck ? - because it would show the bottleneck even more, but that information would not translate to real life at all (not even for 0.1% of gamers). so any decision on such a information would be misleading.

Come again when you have tried 120-240 Hz gaming. You will then now what CPU bottleneck does to your fps.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

"Why the hell would people buy 8700K and delid, void warrenty etc. Delidding aint free either."
And how often do cpus fail in 2 years? Intel won't replace it anyway, I've got my x5650 with 1.55v going through it over the past year and it hasn't had any degradation yet - I doubt you'll put that voltage or anywhere near that through a cpu - it'll be fine. Delidding is cheap enough, there are "cap openers" on eBay for socket 1151 and they can come under £10. Now I'll show a price comparison:
8700k = £330 new UK (can easily be had cheaper)
Delid tool = £10 (cheap tool) or £25 (fancy crap)
Thermal grizzly conductonaut = £7
Isopropyl alcohol = £3
At the absolute max it will cost £348 at the absolute max and that's paying stupidly overpriced crap, The 8c16t costs far more than that alone £152 more at the minimum - that money can be spent on a good z370 board and money saved.

 

[hat]

Hi everybody.
I think that the 9900k isn't bad it is actually very good, but I wonder what's next? Somebody mentioned that these new cpu's, Intel is squeezing all the juice there is. Ryzen in my opinion has way more potential here. As you already know, and you've seen some benchmarks for 9700k and 9900k the difference from the older 8700k (in games) is practically nonexistent. So, would my assumption be true or is it just a meaningless refreshment from Intel again?

They're pretty much taking Skylake to the max. It's the 4th time they've refreshed the same basic architecture. Coffee Lake gave us 6 core, Whiskey lake gave us 8 core and solder back (on k models). Skabfekey lake.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

They're pretty much taking Skylake to the max. It's the 4th time they've refreshed the same basic architecture. Coffee Lake gave us 6 core, Whiskey lake gave us 8 core and solder back (on k models). Skabfekey lake.

And ramping up the cost for the processor in the process it makes the 8700k a far better deal at this stage.

 

[hat]

And ramping up the cost for the processor in the process it makes the 8700k a far better deal at this stage.

Yeah, they're sure losing ground on the price front...

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Yeah, they're sure losing ground on the price front...

Definitely, as the core count increases so is that price. Amds got a 2800x ready assumably and it will actually be priced well.

 

[ratirt]

Next is 10nm and new naming scheme.
Meaningless? The 9th gen K models have STIM / Solder. 3rd to 8th gen is using pigeon poop and needs delid. So...

STIM/Solder oh wow!!! Is that Intel's improvement from the previous gen? It would seem so since 8700k performs same or better than 9th gen. I really appreciate your comments, but I thought you going to take me on a tour with Intel's new development and what I get is STIM/solder. Great What's next improvement water cooling for 10th gen half the price?
As mentioned by somebody, this pigeon poop, isn't making the CPU worse, and solder isn’t making it better either and you can see that with 8700k.
10nm sure. As a photolithography process, so far it's been delayed due to problems. So, who know if Intel's going to pull that one off.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

STIM/Solder oh wow!!! Is that Intel's improvement from the previous gen? It would seem so since 8700k performs same or better than 9th gen. I really appreciate your comments, but I thought you going to take me on a tour with Intel's new development and what I get is STIM/solder. Great What's next improvement water cooling for 10th gen half the price?
As mentioned by somebody, this pigeon poop, isn't making the CPU worse, and solder isn’t making it better either and you can see that with 8700k.
10nm sure. As a photolithography process, so far it's been delayed due to problems. So, who know if Intel's going to pull that one off.

Solder gets outperformed by liquid metal anyways, and idiots whining about having to delid are all hoping to magically hit 5ghz with no thermal issues. Intel will continue to use pidgeon poop and when they don't the processors will be priced much higher to compensate that so 0 value there.

 

[las]

STIM/Solder oh wow!!! Is that Intel's improvement from the previous gen? It would seem so since 8700k performs same or better than 9th gen. I really appreciate your comments, but I thought you going to take me on a tour with Intel's new development and what I get is STIM/solder. Great What's next improvement water cooling for 10th gen half the price?
As mentioned by somebody, this pigeon poop, isn't making the CPU worse, and solder isn’t making it better either and you can see that with 8700k.
10nm sure. As a photolithography process, so far it's been delayed due to problems. So, who know if Intel's going to pull that one off.

Yes solder is making it better, because it runs cooler and higher clocks.
Also, more cores.
This is Intel's improvement. 9th gen is looking far better than 8th gen ever did.

Intel officially said late 2019 for 10nm.

Solder gets outperformed by liquid metal anyways, and idiots whining about having to delid are all hoping to magically hit 5ghz with no thermal issues. Intel will continue to use pidgeon poop and when they don't the processors will be priced much higher to compensate that so 0 value there.

Solder is almost identical to liquid metal according to der8auer.

Delidding voids the warrenty and isnt free or without risk.

 

[ratirt]

Yes solder is making it better, because it runs cooler and higher clocks.
Also, more cores.
This is Intel's improvement. 9th gen is looking far better than 8th gen ever did.

Intel officially said late 2019 for 10nm.

I think more cores aren't related to the solder mister. I think it's more of an architectural improvement. Sure, it can improve heat dissipation, but this doesn't mean that when soldered it will perform better. There's always limits to the frequency of the CPU due to the allowed voltage. The difference between you and me is perception of what an improvement is. I don't consider soldered STIM as an improvement. What I do consider an improvement is better performance with lower power consumption etc. I hope you get what I'm saying here.

Yes. Intel said it will be delayed to end of 2019 due to problems with the 10nm process[/QUOTE]

 

[las]

I think more cores aren't related to the solder mister. I think it's more of an architectural improvement. Sure, it can improve heat dissipation, but this doesn't mean that when soldered it will perform better. There's always limits to the frequency of the CPU due to the allowed voltage. The difference between you and me is perception of what an improvement is. I don't consider soldered STIM as an improvement. What I do consider an improvement is better performance with lower power consumption etc. I hope you get what I'm saying here.

Yes. Intel said it will be delayed to end of 2019 due to problems with the 10nm process

You don't consider solder an improvement? LMAO.
You prefer pigeon poop that makes 8600K/8700K reach ~90C during burnin at stock, unless you buy some serious cooling or delid and void warranty?

Stop yourself please. People have been screaming for solder since Sandy Bridge. And for good reason. Higher clocks / better OC potential, lower temps, no temp spiking.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

I'd be happy with "poop" since I don't have cpus fail. It's too rare of a occurrence to make me justify keeping it's warranty.

 

[ratirt]

You don't consider solder an improvement? LMAO.
You prefer pigeon poop that makes 8600K/8700K reach ~90C during burnin at stock, unless you buy some serious cooling or delid and void warranty?

Stop yourself please. People have been screaming for solder since Sandy Bridge. And for good reason. Higher clocks / better OC potential, lower temps, no temp spiking.

No, I don’t consider that an improvement more like quality of a product. Too bad Intel just started doing it.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Too bad Intel just started doing it.

Started doing it again* Intel has soldered before countless occasions - they stopped it years ago due to "profit margins" - so basically "making more money"

 

[SIGSEGV]

sometimes I have feeling that here (in TPU comment sections) everybody is a gamer and a 120+fps at that the CPU bottleneck (not GPU bottleneck) is main cause of that last lost frame .

lol.
for me (i ain't gaming so much) wanna try ryzen 7 2700x.

 

[hat]

You don't consider solder an improvement? LMAO.
You prefer pigeon poop that makes 8600K/8700K reach ~90C during burnin at stock, unless you buy some serious cooling or delid and void warranty?

Stop yourself please. People have been screaming for solder since Sandy Bridge. And for good reason. Higher clocks / better OC potential, lower temps, no temp spiking.

I don't really consider it an improvement either. While I do want solder and I do consider the paste a terrible idea on any Core ix CPU (I think it would be okay for Pentiums), it should already have been there. And yet it's still only on K models.

 

[Zotz]

Worth repeating:

Intel = best IPC, best single-core scores, good multi-core scores, highest FPS, highest cost; milked the market for ten years.

AMD = very good IPC, good single-core scores, best multi-core scores, good FPS, highest value; bet the farm and made a miraculous comeback, reigniting competition and forcing Intel to produce, ensuring we will have great choices now and - if and only if AMD survives - tomorrow.

Considering that the differences in single-core / FPS are almost undiscernable both in apps and games - who are you going to support with your next CPU purchase?

As long as AMD can even come close to Intel's product - I'll buy AMD. To do otherwise would be a vote for the past, which none of us liked.

 

[ratirt]

Started doing it again* Intel has soldered before countless occasions - they stopped it years ago due to "profit margins" - so basically "making more money"

You are right. What I meant was that with the kind of fresh released products gen 7 and 8. It wasn't there for desktop market. I wasn't talking about the older gen of CPUs

Either way how can people consider solder as an improvement. That's a mystery to me.

Worth repeating:

Intel = best IPC, best single-core scores, good multi-core scores, highest FPS, highest cost; milked the market for ten years.

AMD = very good IPC, good single-core scores, best multi-core scores, good FPS, highest value; bet the farm and made a miraculous comeback, reigniting competition and forcing Intel to produce, ensuring we will have great choices now and - if and only if AMD survives - tomorrow.

Considering that the differences in single-core / FPS are almost undiscernable both in apps and games - who are you going to support with your next CPU purchase?

As long as AMD can even come close to Intel's product - I'll buy AMD. To do otherwise would be a vote for the past, which none of us liked.

I'm seriously thinking about buying AMD 2700x or 2700. I think these two are very good and both would serve me well with what I do. Not sure if the 2800x and 2800 are going to be released. If yes, I can consider waiting a bit longer for them to see the performance and so on.

 

[hat]

You are right. What I meant was that with the kind of fresh released products gen 7 and 8. It wasn't there for desktop market. I wasn't talking about the older gen of CPUs

Either way how can people consider solder as an improvement. That's a mystery to me.

It's an improvement over mayonnaise paste, but it should have been there from the start.

As for it not being there for the desktop market... even HEDT chips started using cottage cheese since skylake-x/kaby lake-x. As much as I hate that they are using ranch dressing on high power desktop parts (okay with that on Pentiums), it seems far worse to do it to HEDT.

Now if only we could overclock any CPU again, like we did 1366 and prior. I could totally see myself delidding a cheap Pentium and running it direct die as a fun project for a secondary rig.

 

[ratirt]

It's an improvement over mayonnaise paste, but it should have been there from the start.

As for it not being there for the desktop market... even HEDT chips started using cottage cheese since skylake-x/kaby lake-x. As much as I hate that they are using ranch dressing on high power desktop parts (okay with that on Pentiums), it seems far worse to do it to HEDT.

I understand what you are saying. It is better than the bull crap they put there but I don't consider this as an improvement in general but boost in quality of a product. Besides your previous post says you don't consider solder as an improvement.

Architectural improvement – higher IPC, more cores, lower DTP that’s an improvement etc.
Product quality – solder instead of a toothpaste under the STIM, better materials in general. (like gold-plated pins PGA era, connectors to a motherboard.)
Besides, Intel was doing solder earlier and then stopped. New Intel products release was an improvement over previous gen even though the solder was gone. So... How can solder now be an improvement?
It's not an improvement it’s the quality of a product. That's how I see it.

 

[Melvis]

Under $500 is a steal. 1800x came out at $500 and that was the worst deal of all deals.

Yeah but it destroyed everything intel had out at the time on the main stream desktop PC so it makes sense. Intel does the same thing, but much worse!

So add another what? $200 ontop of those prices for us Aussies? makes it a complete rip off! the 8700K is still priced over $500 when I got my 2700X for under $400 brand new.

 

[hat]

I understand what you are saying. It is better than the bull crap they put there but I don't consider this as an improvement in general but boost in quality of a product. Besides your previous post says you don't consider solder as an improvement.

Architectural improvement – higher IPC, more cores, lower DTP that’s an improvement etc.
Product quality – solder instead of a toothpaste under the STIM, better materials in general. (like gold-plated pins PGA era, connectors to a motherboard.)
Besides, Intel was doing solder earlier and then stopped. New Intel products release was an improvement over previous gen even though the solder was gone. So... How can solder now be an improvement?
It's not an improvement it’s the quality of a product. That's how I see it.

Well, if you improve the quality of the product... then you improve the product...

I don't really consider it an improvement, because it's something that should have been done in the first place. They just (somewhat) reversed a shitty decision they made, presumably to save a buck or two per chip, but it (using play-doh) shouldn't have happened anyway. Though technically it's an improvement over doing a shitty job, it shouldn't really be considered an improvement when they're just doing what should have been done in the first place.

 

[ratirt]

Well, if you improve the quality of the product... then you improve the product...

I don't really consider it an improvement, because it's something that should have been done in the first place. They just (somewhat) reversed a shitty decision they made, presumably to save a buck or two per chip, but it (using play-doh) shouldn't have happened anyway. Though technically it's an improvement over doing a shitty job, it shouldn't really be considered an improvement when they're just doing what should have been done in the first place.

As you can see I look at this from a different angle. Somebody here stated, he'd rather buy CPU with a crap paste since you can de-lid and use liquid metal which supposedly is better than solder. That's not a bad idea. The problem is you always have to de-lid, your warranty goes out the window not mentioning there's a possibility you will damage your CPU.

Yeah but it destroyed everything intel had out at the time on the main stream desktop PC so it makes sense. Intel does the same thing, but much worse!

So add another what? $200 ontop of those prices for us Aussies? makes it a complete rip off! the 8700K is still priced over $500 when I got my 2700X for under $400 brand new.

Good point. Besides, for Ryzen all other components area cheaper to get your rig ready comparing to Intel's. Unless something has changed. (well I doubt it has)