Remedy Shows The Preliminary Cost of NVIDIA RTX Ray Tracing Effects in Performance

[Vya Domus]

This changes things immensely.

Not really. The big issue with RTX isn't just that it is computationally expensive and the RT cores aren't enough but rather it's the fact that this incurs a massive stall in the graphics pipeline. No matter what you do, as long as those RT cores are in use the performance is going to be abominable. And I don't know why anyone would opt for the "lowest RTX quality level" , even when in full force this is still a grossly approximated effect, toning it down further would prove so detrimental you might as well turn it off altogether.

 

[INSTG8R]

@lexluthermiester This citation good enough for you?

 

[moproblems99]

I seriously hope they were over accentuating everything. If not, I don't want to play games that look like they were painted with metal flake clear coat.

 

[Fluffmeister]

I think it's great technology, which will one day be usable at the same frame rates we expect today with non-RT (60 to 60++). But it's first generation and not ready for that yet. All those who say non-purchasers of RTX will be left behind are wrong. It will be several generations of cards before this is a huge thing. By then, those who have not upgraded with this first gen will have likely upgraded once already, so your argument is moot.

Those that don't adopt the RTX 20xx series because of either cost or immature technology are perfectly ok in not doing so. Likewise those that want to, by all means do so. RT will see it's day in affordable mainstream because it is great, just not at this time.

Well said, the market is dull enough as it is, might as well push something new whilst they wait for some competition for the GP102.

 

[lexluthermiester]

@lexluthermiester This citation good enough for you?

No, it isn't. This is one example and as stated by the OP, 40fps is already achieved. As improvements/refinements to the code progress that number will only rise.

 

[INSTG8R]

No, it isn't. This is one example and as stated by the OP, 40fps is already achieved. As improvements/refinements to the code progress that number will only rise.

LOL you just can’t accept that this not ready for prime time can you? It’s right in front of you and you’re still denying. It... Since when is 40fps been acceptable? The improvements will come with the next generation.

$1200 card achieving 40fps is an “achievement”

 

[Chaboxx]

Excellent excellent perfomance in ray tracing NVIDIA i need two of this to put in nvilink but i pasa of waste 70$ in the nvilink conector....

Excellent excellent perfomance in ray tracing NVIDIA i need two of this to put in nvilink but i pasa of waste 70$ in the nvilink conector....

 

[Fluffmeister]

RTRT before Star Citizen is finished... I'm taking bets!!!!1

 

[lexluthermiester]

LOL you just can’t accept that this not ready for prime time can you?

No. More on that below..

It’s right in front of you and you’re still denying.

We clearly have different perspectives, yes.

Since when is 40fps been acceptable?

For now it's a good start. And it's just a start...

$1200 card achieving 40fps is an “achievement”

Back when real-time 3D was new games barely got 15fps and they were considered excellent. Doom for example got better with updates that got it up to a solid 30FPS on most systems. Real-Time-Ray-Tracing has previously been limited to workstations in the range of $150,000+ and even then it was below 30fps. So yes, for for anyone to deliver RTRT at 30FPS+ for $1200 is an amazing advancement and achievement!

Welcome to the future, kick back and enjoy it.

 

[INSTG8R]

No. More on that below..

We clearly have different perspectives, yes.

For now it's a good start. And it's just a start...

Back when real-time 3D was new games barely got 15fps and they were considered excellent. Doom for example got better with updates that got it up to a solid 30FPS on most systems. Real-Time-Ray-Tracing has previously been limited to workstations in the range of $150,000 plus and even then it was below 30fps. So yes, for for anyone to deliver RTRT at 30FPS+ for $1200 is an amazing advancement and achievement!

Welcome to the future, kick back and enjoy it.

Wow your standards are ridiculous. Nvidia loves people like you....you’re “perspective” is just want they want...
There’s NOTHING amazing about this other than your warped idea of achievement.
This is NOT ready for the consumer space no matter how hard you try to spin it, and boy are you trying to spin it

 

[Vya Domus]

Back when real-time 3D was new games barely got 15fps and they were considered excellent.

And ? Times change, so does the technology and so do the expectations.

Doom for example got better with updates that got it up to a solid 30FPS on most systems.

And you are presuming that the performance will get much better or what ? Afraid you'll be sorely disappointed, this type of technology relies on the hardware side of things more than you realize.

Real-Time-Ray-Tracing has previously been limited to workstations in the range of $150,000 plus

Still is, actually. You say we now have RTRT for 1200$ , but in fact we don't. Open your eyes , what we have are pseudo-ray-tracing techniques that come with an atrocious performance hit while most of the graphics pipeline is still done through traditional rasterization. It's progress for sure but "RTRT at 30FPS+ for $1200" is a misleading statement.

Welcome to the future, kick back and enjoy it.

If the future is sub-60 fps then it's rather bleak. I'll pass.

 

[Xzibit]

Still is, actually. You say we now have RTRT for 1200$ , but in fact we don't. Open your eyes , what we have are pseudo-ray-tracing techniques that come with an atrocious performance hit while most of the graphics pipeline is still done through traditional rasterization. It's progress for sure but "RTRT at 30FPS+ for $1200" is a misleading statement.

Even Nvidia has stated the performance budget isnt enough

The realistic budget is 1-2 samples per pixel (which is insufficient to get anything reliable) with real-time rendering.

Yet thats what all the games will be using 1 to 2 spp

 

[lexluthermiester]

And you are presuming that the performance will get much better or what ?

Always does. It's called progress.

Afraid you'll be sorely disappointed, this type of technology relies on the hardware side of things more than you realize.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I need to look up a few future lottery numbers..

It's progress for sure but "RTRT at 30FPS+ for $1200" is a misleading statement.

Not it isn't. It's proven fact at this point.

If the future is sub-60 fps then it's rather bleak.

The present is 30+fps. That will only improve.

I'll pass.

Ok. No one is forcing you to buy in.

 

[HTC]

I asked NVIDIA about that and they say that there will be "RTX off, low, med high" for most games, not just "RTX on/off"

Thought about it some more:

It does at least in these preliminary tests with its Northlight Engine. In an experimental scene with a wet marble floor and a lot of detailed furniture they were able to evaluate the cost of enabling RTX. There is a 9.2 ms performance overhead per frame in total: 2.3 ms to compute shadows; 4.4 ms to compute reflexions; and 2.5 ms for the global denoising lighting. These are not good news for those who enjoy games at 1080p60.

Do we know which of the three versions of RTX (low / med / high) this refers to? I didn't see it mentioned in OP and it makes all the difference.

So, purely theoretically, to achieve 60FPS with RT on you would need to render a frame (without RT) for no more than 7.4ms, which would mean you would have to have ~135FPS with Ray Tracing off to achieve 60FPS with it enabled. Of course, that's just dry maths with the data provided, can't guarantee that the final product will act this way. But if it does - that's quite big of a performance hit.

That's the thing: @ 1080p, the 2080ti should be making those kind of frame rates without breaking a sweat, which is why i'm finding this a bit suspicious. If they could maintain 60 FPS with full RT, we would be seeing it plastered all over the place, if only to show off, and that's not the case.

 

[Xzibit]

That's the thing: @ 1080p, the 2080ti should be making those kind of frame rates without breaking a sweat, which is why i'm finding this a bit suspicious. If they could maintain 60 FPS with full RT, we would be seeing it plastered all over the place, if only to show off, and that's not the case.

Also take into account thats a static environment. Nothing is being interacted with, no player(s) nor objects.

this is intentionally shown in 1080p 30fps to demonstrate the current promise of real-time ray tracing

 

[HTC]

Also take into account thats a static environment. Nothing is being interacted with, no player(s) nor objects.

I was referring to current games: @ 1080p with everything maxed out, it only fails to reach 135 FPS with a few games (just checked this review), while most reach 150+, with some crossing the 200 FPS and even 300 FPS barriers.

Also, that quote from nVidia: i remember reading about it a while back. There's no way gamers will be content with playing 1080p @ 30 FPS, regardless of "how beautiful it is".

 

[Fluffmeister]

Lot's of negativity, let's hope Intel can push NvIdia forward at least.

 

[lexluthermiester]

That's the thing: @ 1080p, the 2080ti should be making those kind of frame rates without breaking a sweat, which is why i'm finding this a bit suspicious. If they could maintain 60 FPS with full RT, we would be seeing it plastered all over the place, if only to show off, and that's not the case.

Give the software devs time to refine and improve. This new tech literally just hit the shelves. We can't expect perfection over-night.

 

[Salty_sandwich]

For the people who are left feeling all Salty with RTX

best way to look at it really is :

I already have a graphics card that plays all the games don't need to spend £1300-1500.

No point people getting all salty about the price\tech\value, because you cant afford or dont think its worth it.

you don't have to buy one or more, simple, whats the problem ?

I know i don't need or want one, so the price or tech is not an issue.

 

[lexluthermiester]

For the people who are left feeling all Salty with RTX

best way to look at it really is :

I already have a graphics card that plays all the games don't need to spend £1300-1500.

No point people getting all salty about the price\tech\value, because you cant afford or dont think its worth it.

you don't have to buy one or more, simple, whats the problem ?

I know i don't need or want one, so the price or tech is not an issue.

Well said.

 

[Fluffmeister]

AMD ahead

I LOL'd too. They are soo far behind, they are ahead, which begs the question, why aren't people here mad AMD haven't brought RTRT to all gamers yet.

Leap frog away, just let us know when that happens.

 

[Minus Infinity]

As one would expect, the performance hit is huge, the tech will only appear in a handful of games and by the time we have a decent number of titles supporting RTX, we'll be a next gen parts anyway with a massive performance boost in RTX. Sure you could say well unless the teach appears no one will take it up, but Nvidia should have also released non RTX cards to replace the GTX 1xxx series at similar prices. RTX in Quadro makes more sense at this point and maybe the flagship 2080 Ti, which is really a RTX Titan, not a 1080 Ti replacement. AMD can make very good in-roads with the Vega 2.0 @ 7nm cards next year if they play it right. Unless Nvidia release GTX 2xxx versions that have noticeably better performance than the comparable GTX 1xxx, they are dead to me.

 

[Xzibit]

Give the software devs time to refine and improve. This new tech literally just hit the shelves. We can't expect perfection over-night.

The majority of the quotes i posted come from Nvidia. Mostly Ignacio Llamas & Edward Liu.

Ignacio Llamas is Senior Manager of Real Time Rendering Software at NVIDIA
&
Edward Liu is a Senior Real Time Rendering Engineer at NVIDIA

 

[lexluthermiester]

I LOL'd too. They are soo far behind, they are ahead, which begs the question, why aren't people here mad AMD haven't brought RTRT to all gamers yet.

Leap frog away, just let us know when that happens.

My honest guess is that AMD is gearing up to pull a "Ryzen" on NVidia, or something close. Granted that is only a guess. It would be great fun to watch though!

 

[Fluffmeister]

My honest guess is that AMD is gearing up to pull a "Ryzen" on NVidia, or something close. Granted that is only a guess. It would be great fun to watch though!

Yeah it's a nice thought, but I suspect it won't be till next year until they can even fully compete with Pascal if at all. Maybe the plan is for RTRT to become a dirty word like tessellation. I mean there are zero titles and it's already been written off in this very thread.

Shame.