• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel Looks Beyond CMOS to the Future of Logic Devices

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,180 (7.56/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
Today, "Nature" published a research paper on the next generation of logic devices authored by researchers from Intel, the University of California, Berkeley, and the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. The paper describes a magneto-electric spin-orbit (MESO) logic device, invented by Intel. MESO devices have the potential to lower voltage by 5 times and energy by 10-30 times when combined with ultralow sleep state power, as compared to today's complementary metal-oxide-semiconductors (CMOS). While Intel is pursuing CMOS scaling, the company has been working on computing logic options that will emerge in the next decade for the beyond-CMOS era, driving computing energy-efficiency and allowing performance to grow across diverse computing architectures.

"We are looking for revolutionary, not evolutionary, approaches for computing in the beyond-CMOS era. MESO is built around low-voltage interconnects and low-voltage magneto-electrics. It brings together quantum materials innovation with computing. We are excited about the progress we have made and are looking forward to future demonstrations of reducing the switching voltage even further toward its potential," said Ian Young, Intel Senior Fellow and director of the Exploratory Integrated Circuits group in the Technology and Manufacturing Group.



Intel researchers invented the MESO device, with the memory, interconnect and logic requirements of future computing needs in mind. The MESO device was prototyped at Intel using quantum materials with emergent quantum behaviors at room temperature, with magneto-electric materials developed by Ramamoorthy Ramesh at UC Berkeley and the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. MESO also utilizes spin-orbit transduction effects described by Albert Fert at Unité Mixte de Physique CNRS/Thales.

"MESO is a device built with room temperature quantum materials," said Sasikanth Manipatruni, senior staff scientist and director of Intel Science and Technology Center on Functional Electronics Integration and Manufacturing. "It is an example of what is possible, and hopefully triggers innovation across industry, academia and the national labs. A number of critical materials and techniques are yet to be developed to allow the new type of computing devices and architectures."

The Nature publication can be accessed here.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,058 (4.64/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
I'll never understand hardware or software. I still don't see why we can't just have a fiber optic CPU, light goes on and off, 0 and 1 at speed of light, and a sensor reads it, and software says oh this was a 0 or 1, obviously I know it is not that easy... just I don't understand why CMOS brute force computing has always been needed, actually I am just going to shut up now cause I don't even understand how any of it works. gg my life, sticking to video games, lol
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
3,293 (0.47/day)
Location
Canada
System Name PCGR
Processor 12400f
Motherboard Asus ROG STRIX B660-I
Cooling Stock Intel Cooler
Memory 2x16GB DDR5 5600 Corsair
Video Card(s) Dell RTX 3080
Storage 1x 512GB Mmoment PCIe 3 NVME 1x 2TB Corsair S70
Display(s) LG 32" 1440p
Case Phanteks Evolve itx
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply 750W Cooler Master sfx
Software Windows 11
I'll never understand hardware or software. I still don't see why we can't just have a fiber optic CPU, light goes on and off, 0 and 1 at speed of light, and a sensor reads it, and software says oh this was a 0 or 1, obviously I know it is not that easy... just I don't understand why CMOS brute force computing has always been needed, actually I am just going to shut up now cause I don't even understand how any of it works. gg my life, sticking to video games, lol

price

Quantum (Photonics) is very expensive and limited in its current use. Mostly for radar or wireless device like 5G. But it is an option for the future.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
1,004 (0.19/day)
Processor Intel Core i5 8400
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370N-Wifi
Cooling Silverstone AR05
Memory Micron Crucial 16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX1080 G1 Gaming 8G
Storage Micron Crucial MX300 275GB
Display(s) Dell U2415
Case Silverstone RVZ02B
Power Supply Silverstone SSR-SX550
Keyboard Ducky One Red Switch
Software Windows 10 Pro 1909
I'll never understand hardware or software. I still don't see why we can't just have a fiber optic CPU, light goes on and off, 0 and 1 at speed of light, and a sensor reads it, and software says oh this was a 0 or 1, obviously I know it is not that easy... just I don't understand why CMOS brute force computing has always been needed, actually I am just going to shut up now cause I don't even understand how any of it works. gg my life, sticking to video games, lol
Light signal is a pain to control, and the components to do so is bulkier than electronic counterparts, which is not a quality you want in integrated circuits
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
8,195 (2.18/day)
Location
SE Michigan
System Name Dumbass
Processor AMD Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF gaming B650
Cooling Artic Liquid Freezer 2 - 420mm
Memory G.Skill Sniper 32gb DDR5 6000
Video Card(s) GreenTeam 4070 ti super 16gb
Storage Samsung EVO 500gb & 1Tb, 2tb HDD, 500gb WD Black
Display(s) 1x Nixeus NX_EDG27, 2x Dell S2440L (16:9)
Case Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/8 140mm SP Fans
Audio Device(s) onboard (realtek?) - SPKRS:Logitech Z623 200w 2.1
Power Supply Corsair HX1000i
Mouse Steeseries Esports Wireless
Keyboard Corsair K100
Software windows 10 H
Benchmark Scores https://i.imgur.com/aoz3vWY.jpg?2
I'll never understand hardware or software. I still don't see why we can't just have a fiber optic CPU, light goes on and off, 0 and 1 at speed of light, and a sensor reads it, and software says oh this was a 0 or 1, obviously I know it is not that easy... just I don't understand why CMOS brute force computing has always been needed, actually I am just going to shut up now cause I don't even understand how any of it works. gg my life, sticking to video games, lol
My poor attempt at science here: Its about the latency of switching between 0 and 1. Cheaper solutions could offer the same or better performance to what you suggest. :kookoo:
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
136 (0.05/day)
I'll never understand hardware or software. I still don't see why we can't just have a fiber optic CPU, light goes on and off, 0 and 1 at speed of light, and a sensor reads it, and software says oh this was a 0 or 1, obviously I know it is not that easy... just I don't understand why CMOS brute force computing has always been needed, actually I am just going to shut up now cause I don't even understand how any of it works. gg my life, sticking to video games, lol
current CMOS technology: characteristic width 7nm~14nm, futher shrink down possible
Silicon photonics: waveguide width: ~500nm, clearance around waveguide: 1um, typical modulator length: a few mm, impossible to shrink due to Maxwell eq.
Optical fiber: diameter: a few um

It is because of size.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,408 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,058 (4.64/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
current CMOS technology: characteristic width 7nm~14nm, futher shrink down possible
Silicon photonics: waveguide width: ~500nm, clearance around waveguide: 1um, typical modulator length: a few mm, impossible to shrink due to Maxwell eq.
Optical fiber: diameter: a few um

It is because of size.

if size is the true issue, then perhaps cloud streaming of games is the future after all, imagine Nvidia doing a subscription based model based on an optical fiber PC that is exponentially faster by a million of any other computer? We will just buy monitors in the future and fiber optic internet, lol
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
584 (0.27/day)
Everything related to transmission of information is strongly connected to how the very small, atomic world behaves (or, the "quantum" world).
In that world, things are not "exact", as in, it's not certain that something is ON and something else is OFF, or 1 and 0.

Instead, it works based on probabilities. What is the probability that something is "on" ? If that something is 99% sure it's ON, then it can be considered ON, or 1.
But what it the probability is 50% ? Should you consider it 1 or 0 ? You don't know.

Let's say than an electron or photon has the probability of 10% to go from place A to place B.
To use one single electron... with such low probability you'll never be sure if it actually reached place B. So you use more. With two, the probability that either of them will reach increases B is based on the formula:
prob.png


In my 10% for one electron example, this means 10%+10% - 1% ( 19% ), almost double but not fully double.
For 4 electrons, it's 19% + 19% - 3.6%, so around 34.4% ...

Eventually, as you add more and more, you get to somewhere "high enough" (even if not 100%) that you can safely consider the chance of sufficient of them making it form A to B as a "ONE" (1)

~~~
So how does apply this to electronics?
Well, if you have enough electrons do do your job and make sure that something can be considered a "1", you have a working binary logic ( or a transistor ).

But if the transistor is REALLY SMALL, not enough electrons go through it and the chance of result being "1" is not close to 100%, actually it might be quite worse, at 90% or less.
It means, the computer would add 1 and 1 and it could result 0, 1 or 2... with a good change of being 2 but NOT A CERTAINTY.

Obviously, a computer that cannot calculate properly is not a good computer.

~~~
And here lies the problem with making transistors smaller and smaller... it starts to give "quantum errors", as those probabilities are not in the 99.999%+ but much lower, because simply there's not enough electrons to do the job properly !

And the sad part is... there is no solution. We've almost reached the limits of physics. The smaller we make stuff, the more errors it will give, and more error checks need to be done to ensure that the calculation is correct, which in turn makes things slower and waste more energy.

It's sad, but here it is, we're near the end of the the miniaturization age.
From now on it's all about making things more efficient (waste less energy) using new materials, but they won't get any smaller or faster.
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,058 (4.64/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Everything related to transmission of information is strongly connected to how the very small, atomic world behaves (or, the "quantum" world).
In that world, things are not "exact", as in, it's not certain that something is ON and something else is OFF, or 1 and 0.

.

I just don't understand why? We have sensors that can detect light and darkness. So I still do not understand why that technology can not be scaled down to the chip level. Or when I pull up to a traffic light, the laser beam of light detects there is a car there and then tells the software what to do.

Why can't we develop new software to work with a light and dark 1 and 0 based CPU?
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
41 (0.01/day)
Location
morocco
I just don't understand why? We have sensors that can detect light and darkness. So I still do not understand why that technology can not be scaled down to the chip level. Or when I pull up to a traffic light, the laser beam of light detects there is a car there and then tells the software what to do.

Why can't we develop new software to work with a light and dark 1 and 0 based CPU?
the problem is the " wavelengths of visible light " is so big vs electrons "400 to 700 nm " and also so complicated to implant with u consider putting more than billions of transistors in one chip plus the difficulty of connecting all things in the motherboards using fiber ,so yeah thats not gonna happen for computing ,
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,058 (4.64/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
the problem is the " wavelengths of visible light " is so big vs electrons "400 to 700 nm " and also so complicated to implant with u consider putting more than billions of transistors in one chip plus the difficulty of connecting all things in the motherboards using fiber ,so yeah thats not gonna happen for computing ,

huh, I didn't realize light was that big, i know we are still talking nanometers, but yeah that makes sense. I get what you are saying now. huh, interesting. the future is this then?

https://www.techspot.com/news/77327-chiplets-answer-extending-moore-law.html @W1zzard what are your thoughts on Chiplet CPU design and the future of CPU? i'm sure the community would love to read an article from you exploring the future of CPU design, the options currently being researched, your own take and opinion, etc. UNITE US!!!! BE PROACTIVE WIZZY I KNOW YE WANT TO LAD! hhuhuhuhu ten bucks says he wants to tackle me right now, but he knows its a good idea!



this entire video clip is 100% appropriate! unite my brothers! let us build space ships! let us begin today!
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,946 (0.63/day)
Location
Police/Nanny State of America
Processor OCed 5800X3D
Motherboard Asucks C6H
Cooling Air
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) OCed 6800XT
Storage NVMees
Display(s) 32" Dull curved 1440
Case Freebie glass idk
Audio Device(s) Sennheiser
Power Supply Don't even remember
"We're so screwed from 10nm it's time to talk about fantasy land stuff" LOL
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
136 (0.05/day)
huh, I didn't realize light was that big, i know we are still talking nanometers, but yeah that makes sense. I get what you are saying now. huh, interesting. the future is this then?

https://www.techspot.com/news/77327-chiplets-answer-extending-moore-law.html @W1zzard what are your thoughts on Chiplet CPU design and the future of CPU? i'm sure the community would love to read an article from you exploring the future of CPU design, the options currently being researched, your own take and opinion, etc.
As for cluster computing, the trend is quite clear, use electronics to do the computing and use silicon photonics to do the communication. Reality: silicon photonics is used as a discrete I/O device communicating between nodes. Almost reality: on-chip photonics for chip-to-chip communication. Future: photonic interconnect in a many-core system. Even futurer: front-end integrated photonics as a universal interconnect solution.
In this picture, CMOS won't die. Until quantum computers throws the table.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Messages
1,227 (0.51/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero WiFi
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420
Memory 32Gb G-Skill Trident Z Neo @3806MHz C14
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX2070
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 1TB
Display(s) Samsung G9 49" Curved Ultrawide
Case Cooler Master Cosmos
Audio Device(s) O2 USB Headphone AMP
Power Supply Corsair HX850i
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Cherry MX
Software Windows 11
Intel, you have been "dreaming" (counting coin/not investing in R&D) for 10 years now. It's not getting you anywhere is it?
 
Top