German Retailer Mindfactory.de Shows AMD Outselling Intel 2 to 1 in November

[bug]

I predict bug's reply will focus solely on the US Amazon figures, he will justify that by claiming it is the largest market, and he will further state that the proliferation of AMD CPUs further down the list is due to overly aggressive competition by vendors clearing out their AMD product during an Intel shortage, and therefore does not reflect the real tendency of the market when stable.

See, this is why talking to an AMD aficionado is unpleasant. I was merely asking why websites use obscure outlets to prove something when they can source their number from more widely known sources, that's all.

Beyond that, you'd have to be blind to not be able to see AMD is doing way better than they were just a couple of years ago. That's pretty much non-news today. Using obscure sources to make an article stating the obvious doesn't do much, besides giving Intel aficionados more food for their conspiracy theories. So given a choice, I rather wouldn't do that.
On top of that, I get that me being unwilling to crucify Intel for whatever the reason of the day happens to be, makes me an Intel shill in the eyes of some. But I would like to tell you that even before Zen was launched I kept saying that even the most avid Intel supporters would be wise to root for AMD, if only to keep prices in check. Even if I own an i5 6600k (after owning a 2500k before it) and not planing to upgrade anytime soon (because I don't need to) I don't have any brand loyalty. I have owned AMD in the past and I buy whatever gives me the best bang for the buck for the thing I need to do with my computer.

 

[Valantar]

According to Amazon.com's bestseller lists, Intel holds 6 out of the 10 top spots currently for CPUs (1, 3, 6-9). At Amazon.co.uk AMD dominates with spots 1-5 and 7, though absurdly there's an FX CPU in spot 5. Americans seem to either go for more expensive CPUs or have better access to them, as the 9900K doesn't even make the top 10 in the UK, while it's 6th in the US. At Amazon.de, AMD holds 1-3 and 6-9, so quite heavily represented there also, while the 9700K at #10 is the only 9th Gen making the list there.

Mindfactory is likely not representative of the global market, but it does seem to show us that either Intel is focusing heavily on the US market with the limited number of chips they have, or non-Americans are far more likely to buy AMD, and are currently doing so in large quantities.

 

[Super XP]

I think that if Zen2 cores get above Intel in gaming and light-threaded apps, the Ryzen CPUs will go up in price at first in order to get as much a gain as possible and when Intel lower their cpu prices because of losing in their field of excellence, AMD will also lower theirs. R5 2600 is atm the best vfm cpu ever, and there will be 1-2 Ryzen 3 cpus that will take its place, as AMD needs to keep momentum of gaining market share most than anything else.

Quite possible, but I personally don't think so. AMD is in catch up phase, and the last thing they need is to hike the prices up. AMD needs to keep the momentum going with the best price/performance ratio in order to further take back years of lost market share from Intel.

Intel is in damage control, for good reason, and we know this because of its strategic hiring of some high profile people.

According to Amazon.com's bestseller lists, Intel holds 6 out of the 10 top spots currently for CPUs (1, 3, 6-9). At Amazon.co.uk AMD dominates with spots 1-5 and 7, though absurdly there's an FX CPU in spot 5. Americans seem to either go for more expensive CPUs or have better access to them, as the 9900K doesn't even make the top 10 in the UK, while it's 6th in the US. At Amazon.de, AMD holds 1-3 and 6-9, so quite heavily represented there also, while the 9700K at #10 is the only 9th Gen making the list there.

Mindfactory is likely not representative of the global market, but it does seem to show us that either Intel is focusing heavily on the US market with the limited number of chips they have, or non-Americans are far more likely to buy AMD, and are currently doing so in large quantities.

Based on my understanding, AMD is still negatively looked upon in North America. Building a PC for a client, for example, they needed some strong convincing that the Ryzen CPUs are simply brilliant, cost effective and multi-core performing monsters. Yet he still seems skeptical and thought a Core i5 would have been the better choice. The term AMD Bulldozer seems to continually linger in the minds of people, even with the Ryzen launch lol

See, this is why talking to an AMD aficionado is unpleasant. I was merely asking why websites use obscure outlets to prove something when they can source their number from more widely known sources, that's all.

Beyond that, you'd have to be blind to not be able to see AMD is doing way better than they were just a couple of years ago. That's pretty much non-news today. Using obscure sources to make an article stating the obvious doesn't do much, besides giving Intel aficionados more food for their conspiracy theories. So given a choice, I rather wouldn't do that.
On top of that, I get that me being unwilling to crucify Intel for whatever the reason of the day happens to be, makes me an Intel shill in the eyes of some. But I would like to tell you that even before Zen was launched I kept saying that even the most avid Intel supporters would be wise to root for AMD, if only to keep prices in check. Even if I own an i5 6600k (after owning a 2500k before it) and not planing to upgrade anytime soon (because I don't need to) I don't have any brand loyalty. I have owned AMD in the past and I buy whatever gives me the best bang for the buck for the thing I need to do with my computer.

In that respect, fair competition is crucial to the survival of both AMD & Intel. It's about time Intel takes a nice beating in the CPU industry, as with how AMD has taken beatings throughout the years. Intel's future answer to the ZEN design is hiring Jim Keller (Legendary CPU Architect), lol. Well, its a good thing, ZEN is expandable for years to come.

 

[voltage]

meh. I for one am not impressed. these stats wont sway my decision away from waiting for Intel's Gen 10. but good for amd.

 

[GlacierNine]

meh. I for one am not impressed. these stats wont sway my decision away from waiting for Intel's Gen 10. but good for amd.

They're not supposed to sway your decision, they're a reflection of the fact OTHER peoples buying decisions have been swayed. Why would what other people buy have any bearing on your decisions?

 

[bug]

In that respect, fair competition is crucial to the survival of both AMD & Intel. It's about time Intel takes a nice beating in the CPU industry, as with how AMD has taken beatings throughout the years. Intel's future answer to the ZEN design is hiring Jim Keller (Legendary CPU Architect), lol. Well, its a good thing, ZEN is expandable for years to come.

In an ideal world, you'd want more than two providers. But the entry barrier being so high, that's not going to happen. And yes, the last thing we want is another Turing.

 

[TheZonk88]

I still don't understand why mindfactory has become a reference. It's literally one tenth the size of microcenter (both in employees and revenue), I doubt it's representative even for Germany alone.

Microcenter= US and A only
Mindfactory = Europe

 

[bug]

Microcenter= US and A only
Mindfactory = Europe

Nope.
I'm from Europe and I never heard of mindfactory until someone starting making waves on TPU about them and Ryzen sales. That's how good a reference they are. In fact, a quick search for retailers in Europe doesn't even mention them.

 

[TheZonk88]

Ok

How about Caseking, Alternate, Hardwareversand(doesn't exist anymore), Newegg or bytes at work?

geizhals.eu or pcpartpicker are also a good source to find some good Stores

 

[ArbitraryAffection]

So the Intel defence force is already at the scene ;D

In all seriousness, this isn't a big surprise. Ryzen absolutely kicks Intel Butt in Price/performance and even overall performance if you consider 2990WX has no competition in pure multi-core workload.

And with the prices of Intel CPUs here, you'd literally have to be brain dead to buy Intel right now (there are a lot of braindead people apparently).

 

[bug]

So the Intel defence force is already at the scene ;D

In all seriousness, this isn't a big surprise. Ryzen absolutely kicks Intel Butt in Price/performance and even overall performance if you consider 2990WX has no competition in pure multi-core workload.

And with the prices of Intel CPUs here, you'd literally have to be brain dead to buy Intel right now (there are a lot of braindead people apparently).

What Intel defence force? Have you read what has been written so far?

 

[GlacierNine]

What Intel defence force? Have you read what has been written so far?

I think he probably has, yes, because I just read you refuting being someone who is only interested in defending Intel, and then in the very next post you did exactly what I originally thought you would do, which was try to deligitimise the source of this information so that you can claim Intel's position is more favourable than it actually is according to the only available data.

I can even pick apart the argument you want to make before you've made it. You're essentially sat here stating that a more all-encompassing source of information is required. That would be a reasonable statement if it didn't completely ignore that the sources you're suggesting you would accept information from, don't release that sort of information and likely never will.

It's a transparent attempt to raise the standard of evidence beyond where we can reasonably expect there to be evidence. Once that is achieved in your eyes, you will then begin to attack the conclusions that can be drawn from mindfactory's data, asserting that Amazon or Newegg's data would show a different trend.

You'll then, ironically, begin to dredge up much lower standards of evidence in order to support this claim, relying on the vagueness of incomplete data like best-sellers lists on Amazon in order to make claims that are not falsifiable. When people point out that YOUR data is incomplete and doesn't meet the standard of evidence you yourself have demanded, you will simply make a circular argument back to why mindfactory's data also doesn't satisfy that standard of evidence, and you will continue this oscillation between unfalsifiable claims base on poor evidence, and attacking mindfactory's information until everyone gets too bored with you to bother continuing.

 

[bug]

I think he probably has, yes, because I just read you refuting being someone who is only interested in defending Intel, and then in the very next post you did exactly what I originally thought you would do, which was try to deligitimise the source of this information so that you can claim Intel's position is more favourable than it actually is according to the only available data.

I can even pick apart the argument you want to make before you've made it. You're essentially sat here stating that a more all-encompassing source of information is required. That would be a reasonable statement if it didn't completely ignore that the sources you're suggesting you would accept information from, don't release that sort of information and likely never will.

It's a transparent attempt to raise the standard of evidence beyond where we can reasonably expect there to be evidence. Once that is achieved in your eyes, you will then begin to attack the conclusions that can be drawn from mindfactory's data, asserting that Amazon or Newegg's data would show a different trend.

You'll then, ironically, begin to dredge up much lower standards of evidence in order to support this claim, relying on the vagueness of incomplete data like best-sellers lists on Amazon in order to make claims that are not falsifiable. When people point out that YOUR data is incomplete and doesn't meet the standard of evidence you yourself have demanded, you will simply make a circular argument back to why mindfactory's data also doesn't satisfy that standard of evidence, and you will continue this oscillation between unfalsifiable claims base on poor evidence, and attacking mindfactory's information until everyone gets too bored with you to bother continuing.

You're insane.

 

[GlacierNine]

You're insane.

No, I've just seen your posts before.

 

[Valantar]

Well, this devolved quickly.

To being this somewhat back on topic, @GlacierNine , I was the one who brought up Amazon bestseller lists. Why? 'Cause more data points = better. They don't give as much detail, but they give an indication of relative sales numbers for the world's biggest etailer, and for (at least) three different countries/regions. It's great that MindFactory gives out sales data like this, and I applaud them for that (even if it's clearly also a "hey, look how transparent we are" PR move), but they're still a minor actor operating in one or a few countries (even if Germany is quite large). On the other hand, as a specialist store they're likely to attract a more informed customer base than Amazon. What would be interesting is looking at sales of various SKUs at MF to check how they align (or don't) with Amazon's rankings, especially in Germany, but really anywhere. How do they match, how do they differ, and what might we be able to extrapolate from this?

I also find it interesting that the data clearly shows that the increase in market share is due to a sales uptick for AMD and not just a drop for Intel; Intel is selling as many chips as they did in July, while AMD has doubled their sales since then. Of course, Intel is also coming back from a major slump in the last two months, either due to shortages, price increases, or both, so without this they'd likely have sold more than they did, and would likely have taken a portion of AMD's sales. Still, this doesn't take away from the fact that AMD is clearly in a very strong position in the CPU market right now. I'd call that a win for everyone who owns, uses or plans to buy a PC.

 

[ArbitraryAffection]

What Intel defence force? Have you read what has been written so far?

Ya, some people just can't take good news about AMD.

 

[bug]

Ya, some people just can't take good news about AMD.

Oh, I can take good news. But this one here is non-news (if you had basic statistics understanding, we wouldn't have this discussion).
The problem with a non-representative sample isn't that it denies what you need to be the truth, is that is doesn't tell you anything about it. In this case, you have read the news, but you still have no idea whether AMD's growth is half of what's shown or it is 2-3 times bigger.

 

[GlacierNine]

Well, this devolved quickly.

To being this somewhat back on topic, @GlacierNine , I was the one who brought up Amazon bestseller lists.

I know you were, I was just articulating that as far as data goes they're still much more vague than we have from mindfactory, and therefore they satisfy two of bug's requirements - they come from a larger more "reputable" source and they're also completely open to be interpreted however is convenient for him to interpret them in order to make whatever facile argument he would like to in service of his evident goal - minimizing AMDs success and Intel's failure.

The fact you brought them up simply saves him the bother of justifying why we're discussing them instead of the actual data we do have, however limited that data is. We could have a much more reasonable discussion about the data we actually have, couching it in the usual terms of "if this is reflected elsewhere" or "of course this only reflects the euro market". Instead bug chooses to attack the existence of any data not serving his purposes, with inflammatory statements about how anyone that "understands statistics" wouldn't even bother reading it, and demands for a standard of evidence to be provided that he knows cannot be provided short of Jeff Bezos going insane.