AMD Radeon VII Detailed Some More: Die-size, Secret-sauce, Ray-tracing, and More

[ssdpro]

The news of this article is Radeon VII=$699 2080=$699 for on par performance if you ignore ray tracing/tensor. That exact match pricing for on par minus a few features is not AMD's modus operandi. This needs to be $499-549.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

It has double the VRAM of the RTX 2080; hence, equal price. I suspect AMD is making more profit per Radeon VII sold than NVIDIA is per RTX 2080 sold though. AMD could cut its price if NVIDIA does but NVIDIA won't.

 

[Kaotik]

On topic, Vega 20 doesn't really impress but it really wasn't intended to impress either. Vega 7nm w/ Fiji memory bandwidth.

Actually double the Fiji memory bandwidth. Fiji had 512GB/s, this has 1 TB/s. Also the Vega architecture itself has been updated over original Vega to include support for new functions and formats which accelerate many AI-tasks etc, ACEs are supposedly improved too

 

[cucker tarlson]

It has double the VRAM of the RTX 2080; hence, equal price. I suspect AMD is making more profit per Radeon VII sold than NVIDIA is per RTX 2080 sold though. AMD could cut its price if NVIDIA does but NVIDIA won't.

key word-per sold.

 

[Gasaraki]

Probably the most useful thing about this card is that, if it is able to perform anywhere near the RTX 2080, it might well induce NVIDIA to drop the latter's price. Considering how expensive Vega 56/64 were, and remain, I'm pretty sure NVIDIA has a lot more wiggle-room in terms of pricing - and they surely would love to shut AMD out from the high-end GPU market completely, because that woudl guarantee them an effective monopoly on that market segment going forward.

tl;dr NVIDIA might well be willing to drop the price on RTX 2080 to allow them to hike the price on RTX 3000 and all its descendants.

The only way they could have done this is if they priced the Radeon 7 at $649 or $599, not $699. $699 is the same price as the RTX2080 but the 2080 doesn't have the heat, power use, has RT cores, has Tensor cores, etc. Overall the RTX2080 is expensive because it has new tech in it. If I have to pay the same price, I will buy the one with the lower power draw, the lower heat, the advance tech in it.

According to AMD the cost of 7nm is significant, with 16 hbm2 I can't imagine it's cheap for them, but i assume they are least making some money.

The rumor is that it costs close to $750 to make the Radeon 7 cards. So no, they are not making money. This is just to stop the bleeding.

 

[INSTG8R]

You really got drop the “it has Tensor Cores” they’re just Compute units with a fancy name that Vega have too and for both camps bring little for nothing to gaming save a few unique cases.

 

[Zubasa]

Probably the most useful thing about this card is that, if it is able to perform anywhere near the RTX 2080, it might well induce NVIDIA to drop the latter's price. Considering how expensive Vega 56/64 were, and remain, I'm pretty sure NVIDIA has a lot more wiggle-room in terms of pricing - and they surely would love to shut AMD out from the high-end GPU market completely, because that woudl guarantee them an effective monopoly on that market segment going forward.

tl;dr NVIDIA might well be willing to drop the price on RTX 2080 to allow them to hike the price on RTX 3000 and all its descendants.

A more likely senario is we might see the full TU104 in a gaming card.
The RTX 2080 only has 2944 of the 3072 CUDA cores in the full TU104 chip, that is currently in the Quadro RTX 5000.
The RTX 5000 also has the full 384 Tensor cores vs 368, and 48 RT cores instead of 46.

 

[ShurikN]

Good point. RPM often gets overlooked I know FC5 is using it and I’m gonna assume AC Odyssey would too.

Considering they had a special segment showing Division 2 in the Key Note, it's highly likely RPM will find it's way into that game.

 

[INSTG8R]

Considering they had a special segment showing Division 2 in the Key Note, it's highly likely RPM will find it's way into that game.

Most likely you’re correct makes perfect sense to leverage the tech whenever they can.

 

[Imsochobo]

The only way they could have done this is if they priced the Radeon 7 at $649 or $599, not $699. $699 is the same price as the RTX2080 but the 2080 doesn't have the heat, power use, has RT cores, has Tensor cores, etc. Overall the RTX2080 is expensive because it has new tech in it. If I have to pay the same price, I will buy the one with the lower power draw, the lower heat, the advance tech in it.




The rumor is that it costs close to $750 to make the Radeon 7 cards. So no, they are not making money. This is just to stop the bleeding.

cut 50$ as it's slightly defective chips.
It's a non profit mindshare stunt in my eyes, even if they have 100$ margin for the entire channel(amd,AIB,etailer).

It's the right decision nevertheless.

 

[ppn]

AMD missed great opportunity here. the old VEGA 10 has 15% of the die area outside the main core elements where only the PCIE and memory channels reside. Vega 20 has now 45% of precious 7nm die lost by empty spaces beside the PCIE/mem. this chip could have easily been reduced to 232 mm.sq same as RX 590, and keep the 4096 processors config. Slap 8GB of very fast 616 GB/s HBM2 on there and nobody would have cared that it is only 2048 bit. seriously AMD how could you do this mess.

 

[Camm]

this chip could have easily been reduced to 232 mm.sq same as RX 590, and keep the 4096 processors config. Slap 8GB of very fast 616 GB/s HBM2 on there and nobody would have cared that it is only 2048 bit. seriously AMD how could you do this mess.

Because this is obviously a stop gap card that AMD could engineer for cheap?

 

[XXL_AI]

AMD=Engineering
NVIDIA=Science & Arts & Fun & Technology & Engineering
intel=how to get away with murder.

 

[moproblems99]

The news of this article is Radeon VII=$699 2080=$699 for on par performance if you ignore ray tracing/tensor. That exact match pricing for on par minus a few features is not AMD's modus operandi. This needs to be $499-549.

I disagree. I think $699 is a great price for it since it has 2080 performance which is $699. Everybody says you don't buy a GPU for what it will do (at least that is what people say about AMDs fine wine approach), you buy it for what it does today. Today, there is one game that people actually play that has RTX. That means people are buying it for the performance. Therefore, $699 is appropriate as that is the going rate. Don't like pricing? Ask NV why they started it.

 

[Kaotik]

The rumor is that it costs close to $750 to make the Radeon 7 cards. So no, they are not making money. This is just to stop the bleeding.

There's always rumors, before some analysts with experience on graphics card BOM chip in, those rumors aren't worth the time you took to write that post.
It's ridiculous how much different rumors float around AMD especially on the graphics front and that people actually treat them like they're some sort of gospel because it's on the internet, like all the "Navi is Sony exclusive" crap and so on

 

[kings]

I disagree. I think $699 is a great price for it since it has 2080 performance which is $699. Everybody says you don't buy a GPU for what it will do (at least that is what people say about AMDs fine wine approach), you buy it for what it does today. Today, there is one game that people actually play that has RTX. That means people are buying it for the performance. Therefore, $699 is appropriate as that is the going rate. Don't like pricing? Ask NV why they started it.

So, $699 for a RTX 2080 is a great price? You can't consider a Radoen VII for $699 a great price, and don't consider the same for the RTX 2080... is pure logic.

The Radeon VII sucks in price/performance, like RTX 2080 sucks. We had this same performance and price 2 years ago, on the 1080Ti.

This only proves that "people's friend AMD", as many people think thay are, does not exist, it's a profit-only company like all the others and has no problem raising prices if they can.

 

[moproblems99]

This only proves that "people's friend AMD", as many people think thay are, does not exist, it's a profit-only company like all the others and has no problem raising prices if they can.

That is why it is a great price. I have said for a while that people have the gaming industry they deserve. People have been buying these cards so therefore the price is right. If NV can do it and people love it, why can't AMD.

I am not delusional enough to think that AMD cares about me for anything else than my money. I treat them as such.

 

[ZoneDymo]

Drop the price 100 bucks and this card should be a no brainer.

 

[Mr.Mopar392]

Drop the price 100 bucks and this card should be a no brainer.

Even if they drop it a 100 bucks less, you really think will change the minds of many who shill every second for nvidia lol, their gonna find something else to complain about. Thank god theirs a core fan base for amd products and neutral fans don't show bias to either brand, because if amd depended on nvidiots to convert they would have certainly when bankrupt years ago.

 

[ZoneDymo]

Even if they drop it a 100 bucks less, you really think will change the minds of many who shill every second for nvidia lol, their gonna find something else to complain about. Thank god theirs a core fan base for amd products and neutral fans don't show bias to either brand, because if amd depended on nvidiots to convert they would have certainly when bankrupt years ago.

Well no I dont think it would win over fanboys, nothing does, thats the concept of a fanboy.
I more mean it indeed for the people who are just looking for a new gpu and dont really care about who made it as long as its good.
They should make it a no brainer whether to buy a Radeon 7 or a RTX2080 and a very competitive price (100 dollars less) would do that.
Then the only question would be "should I shell out even more money for a RTX2080Ti?" and the answer would probably be no.

 

[Xzibit]

According to AMD the cost of 7nm is significant, with 16 hbm2 I can't imagine it's cheap for them, but i assume they are least making some money.

Now imagine how much a die shrink of TU102 will cost and how much they will charge for it. 550mm2 to 600mm2 minimun, What if they add to it?

 

[Casecutter]

Lot of rumors floated when Vega first came out in regards to part/labor cost being higher than the MSRP. And some, as to memory might had justification, or defects getting the GPU/HBM2 imposer in full production. Although the other day Egg had a Sapphire Vega 64 (blower) *No Rebate* just a $5 off code (whoop) and it was $395, that's 20% off MSRP. While even in early November '18, a PowerColor RED DRAGON Vega 56 was $330 working only a code (-18%). I'm sure everyone (AMD, channel, retail) is making it wroth their while in moving them along... there not doing it out the goodness of their heart.

So this tells me that this Vega 7 is fine and AMD has the MSRP set that each of these geldings probably make more then the price out of TSCM. Do we think "Instinct" volume is more mainstream than "Frontier" SKU's into professional, I think that is probably the case. Could we say 25% of total "Instinct" are Binned? Seeing the price above AMD seems to show strong confidence in interposer production, while HBM2 prices are probably dropped and inventory blanket orders are assured. I'd bet that (like the RX 590) AIB will just repurpose exist Vega coolers/fan mainly just update shrouds and appearance.

So, if $699 is MSRP just 10% reduction is $630. If all such assumptions fall as (8 out 10 correct) AMD could fill and maintain the channel better the original Vega which by all appearances was and is lax.

 

[Fluffmeister]

Now imagine how much a die shrink of TU102 will cost and how much they will charge for it. 550mm2 to 600mm2 minimun, What if they add to it?

Indeed, despite the large die-size it may actually still be cheaper for them to manufacturer on the refined 12nm node, while still adding features, performance and continuing to improve performance per watt over Pascal.

It's clear they don't need to chase the gains 7nm offers yet, unlike AMD.

Edit: -1! The truth hurts eh Casecutter?

 

[efikkan]

I disagree. I think $699 is a great price for it since it has 2080 performance which is $699. Everybody says you don't buy a GPU for what it will do (at least that is what people say about AMDs fine wine approach), you buy it for what it does today. Today, there is one game that people actually play that has RTX. That means people are buying it for the performance. Therefore, $699 is appropriate as that is the going rate. Don't like pricing? Ask NV why they started it.

Assuming the performance will be comparable, why would you still buy it when it has major drawbacks? What real advantages does it offer over the RTX 2080, justifying its existence?

 

[moproblems99]

Assuming the performance will be comparable, why would you still buy it when it has major drawbacks? What real advantages does it offer over the RTX 2080, justifying its existence?

What are the drawbacks? What advantages does the 2080 have? You can't be talking about RTX and DLSS, can you?