• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

USB Promoter Group Announces USB4 Specification

crazyeyesreaper

Not a Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
9,817 (1.71/day)
Location
04578
System Name Old reliable
Processor Intel 8700K @ 4.8 GHz
Motherboard MSI Z370 Gaming Pro Carbon AC
Cooling Custom Water
Memory 32 GB Crucial Ballistix 3666 MHz
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 3080 10GB Suprim X
Storage 3x SSDs 2x HDDs
Display(s) ASUS VG27AQL1A x2 2560x1440 8bit IPS
Case Thermaltake Core P3 TG
Audio Device(s) Samson Meteor Mic / Generic 2.1 / KRK KNS 6400 headset
Power Supply Zalman EBT-1000
Mouse Mionix NAOS 7000
Keyboard Mionix
While we just recently covered the USB 3.2 specification. The USB Promoter Group has today announced the pending release of the USB4 specification, a major update to deliver the next generation USB architecture that compliments and builds on the existing USB 3.2 and USB 2.0 architectures. The USB4 architecture is based on the Thunderbolt protocol specification recently contributed by Intel Corporation. It doubles the bandwidth of USB and enables multiple simultaneous data and display protocols.

The new USB4 architecture defines a method to share a single high-speed link with multiple end device types dynamically that best serves the transfer of data by type and application. As the USB Type-C connector has evolved into the role as the external display port of many host products, the USB4 specification provides the host the ability to optimally scale allocations for display data flow. Even as the USB4 specification introduces a new underlying protocol, compatibility with existing USB 3.2, USB 2.0 and Thunderbolt 3 hosts and devices is supported; the resulting connection scales to the best mutual capability of the devices being connected. "The primary goal of USB is to deliver the best user experience combining data, display and power delivery over a user-friendly and robust cable and connector solution," said Brad Saunders, USB Promoter Group Chairman. "The USB4 solution specifically tailors bus operation to further enhance this experience by optimizing the blend of data and display over a single connection and enabling the further doubling of performance."

Key characteristics of the USB4 solution include:
  • Two-lane operation using existing USB Type-C cables and up to 40 Gbps operation over 40 Gbps certified cables
  • Multiple data and display protocols to efficiently share the total available bandwidth over the bus
  • Backward compatibility with USB 3.2, USB 2.0 and Thunderbolt 3

With over 50 companies actively participating in the final stages of review of the draft specification, the USB4 specification is on track to be published around the middle of 2019. Coincident with the release of the USB4 specification, the release of an updated USB Type-C Specification will be made to comprehend USB4 bus discovery, configuration and performance requirements.

USB Developer Days 2019, in the second half of this year, will include detailed technical training covering the USB4 specification and the latest for USB Type-C, USB Power Delivery, and other exciting topics. This update is part of the USB performance roadmap and is specifically targeted to developers at this time. Branding and marketing guidelines will be established after the final specification is published. "Releasing the Thunderbolt protocol specification is a significant milestone for making today's simplest and most versatile port available to everyone," said Jason Ziller, General Manager, Client Connectivity Division at Intel. "By collaborating with the USB Promoter Group, we're opening the doors for innovation across a wide range of devices and increasing compatibility to deliver better experiences to consumers." "USB4's high throughput and advanced features enable new scenarios in consumer, enterprise, and intelligent edge markets, while maintaining interoperability with existing USB and Thunderbolt 3 devices," said Roanne Sones, Corporate Vice President, Microsoft OS Platforms. "We are excited to work with our partners in the ecosystem to bring USB4 to market and showcase its benefits."

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
5,570 (0.96/day)
System Name Cyberline
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k -> 12600k
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE Rev 3.0 -> Gigabyte Z690 Auros Elite DDR4
Cooling Tuniq Tower 120 -> Custom Watercoolingloop
Memory Corsair (4x2) 8gb 1600mhz -> Crucial (8x2) 16gb 3600mhz
Video Card(s) AMD RX480 -> RX7800XT
Storage Samsung 750 Evo 250gb SSD + WD 1tb x 2 + WD 2tb -> 2tb MVMe SSD
Display(s) Philips 32inch LPF5605H (television) -> Dell S3220DGF
Case antec 600 -> Thermaltake Tenor HTCP case
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 (USB)
Power Supply Seasonic 620watt 80+ Platinum
Mouse Elecom EX-G
Keyboard Rapoo V700
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.44/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
So it is ditching all other connectors for Type-C? Makes sense to me.

Begs the question why they even bothered with 3.2 announcement if USB 4 is the actual successor.
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
2,214 (0.44/day)
System Name Ultima
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Motherboard MSI Mag B550M Mortar
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240 rev4 w/ Ryzen offset mount
Memory G.SKill Ripjaws V 2x16GB DDR4 3600
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 4070 12GB Dual
Storage WD Black SN850X 2TB Gen4, Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500GB , 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD sata,
Display(s) ASUS TUF VG249Q3A 24" 1080p 165-180Hz VRR
Case DarkFlash DLM21 Mesh
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek ALC1200 Audio/Nvidia HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair RM650
Mouse Rog Strix Impact 3 Wireless | Wacom Intuos CTH-480
Keyboard A4Tech B314 Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Pro
Usb 3.2: This is not even my final form
usb.jpg
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
7,563 (1.77/day)
So it is ditching all other connectors for Type-C? Makes sense to me.

Begs the question why they even bothered with 3.2 announcement if USB 4 is the actual successor.
It's not that USB 3.2 wasn't the successor, it's because Intel probably wanted USB4 with TB3 protocol. The only reason TB isn't irrelevant, like firewire, today is because it's now free & open(?) standard.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.44/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
https://usb.org/sites/default/files/2019-03/USB_PG_USB4_DevUpdate_Announcement_FINAL_20190226.pdf
About the USB Promoter Group
The USB Promoter Group, comprised of Apple Inc., Hewlett-Packard Inc., Intel Corporation, Microsoft Corporation, Renesas Electronics Corporation, ST Microelectronics, and Texas Instruments, continues to develop the USB family of specifications to meet the market needs for increased functionality and performance of USB solutions. Additionally, the USB Promoter Group develops specification addendums (USB Power Delivery, USB Type-C™, and others) to extend or adapt its specifications to support more platform types or use cases where adopting USB technology will be beneficial in delivering a more ubiquitous, richer user experience.
About the USB-IF
The non-profit USB Implementers Forum, Inc. was formed to provide a support organization and forum for the advancement and adoption of USB technology as defined in the USB specifications. The USB-IF facilitates the development of high-quality compatible USB devices through its logo and compliance program, and promotes the benefits of USB and the quality of products that have passed compliance testing. Further information, including postings of the most recent product and technology announcements, is available by visiting the USB-IF website at www.usb.org.
So a small subset of corporations decided to create USB4. USB-IF can only iterate on existing USB standards likely because of copyright, patents, and/or trademarks held by Intel. Makes me think USB-IF tried to jump ahead of Promoter Group and so Promoter Group launched USB4 to snub them.

Edit: Hmm...last line:
USB Type-C™ and USB-C™ are trademarks of USB Implementers Forum. Thunderbolt™ is a trademark of Intel Corporation.
Looks like IF pulled USB Type-C out from under Intel and now Intel is trying to wrest control back by forcing USB4 to operate on Thunderbolt. Article literally says as much in verbatim:
The USB4 architecture is based on the Thunderbolt™ protocol specification recently contributed by Intel Corporation.
Thunderbolt was by most accounts a failure. Outside of Apple, it saw virtually no support. Now Intel is attempting to ramthroat it to everyone via USB4.

...I get now why USB-IF preempted the Promoter Group. We got a format war brewing. Also explains the mess that is USB 3.1 and 3.2.

Identical connectors, different technologies. This is going to end well. :banghead:
 
Last edited:

hat

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
21,747 (3.29/day)
Location
Ohio
System Name Starlifter :: Dragonfly
Processor i7 2600k 4.4GHz :: i5 10400
Motherboard ASUS P8P67 Pro :: ASUS Prime H570-Plus
Cooling Cryorig M9 :: Stock
Memory 4x4GB DDR3 2133 :: 2x8GB DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) PNY GTX1070 :: Integrated UHD 630
Storage Crucial MX500 1TB, 2x1TB Seagate RAID 0 :: Mushkin Enhanced 60GB SSD, 3x4TB Seagate HDD RAID5
Display(s) Onn 165hz 1080p :: Acer 1080p
Case Antec SOHO 1030B :: Old White Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro - Bose Companion 2 Series III :: None
Power Supply FSP Hydro GE 550w :: EVGA Supernova 550
Software Windows 10 Pro - Plex Server on Dragonfly
Benchmark Scores >9000
Identical connectors, different technologies. This is going to end well. :banghead:

So it's safe to say I'm not the only one that thinks this somehow feels like the '90s with many different standards and connectors for everything?
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
245 (0.09/day)
Location
behind you
Processor Threadripper 1950X
Motherboard ASRock X399 Professional Gaming
Cooling IceGiant ProSiphon Elite
Memory 48GB DDR4 2934MHz
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080
Storage 4TB Crucial P3 Plus NVMe, 1TB Samsung 980 NVMe, 1TB Inland NVMe, 2TB Western Digital HDD
Display(s) 2x 4K60
Power Supply Cooler Master Silent Pro M (1000W)
Mouse Corsair Ironclaw Wireless
Keyboard Corsair K70 MK.2
VR HMD HTC Vive Pro
Software Windows 10, QubesOS

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.91/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
4.0 gen 1 4x2=8 quick maffs edition
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,843 (3.95/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
So it is ditching all other connectors for Type-C? Makes sense to me.

Begs the question why they even bothered with 3.2 announcement if USB 4 is the actual successor.
Probably because the final spec and first implementation are still at least a year away? USB 3.2 devices may be a lot closer than that.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,667 (6.04/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
System Name Tiny the White Yeti
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling CPU: Thermalright Peerless Assassin / Case: Phanteks T30-120 x3
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
VR HMD HD 420 - Green Edition ;)
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
1,458 (0.30/day)
Processor Ryzen 9 7950X3D
Motherboard MSI X670E MPG Carbon Wifi
Cooling Custom loop, 2x360mm radiator,Lian Li UNI, EK XRes140,EK Velocity2
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill DDR5-6400 @ 6400MHz C32
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra OC Scanner core +750 mem
Storage MP600 Pro 2TB,960 EVO 1TB,XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB,Micron 1100 2TB,1.5TB Caviar Green
Display(s) Alienware AW3423DWF, Acer XB270HU
Case LianLi O11 Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) Logitech G-Pro X Wireless
Power Supply EVGA P3 1200W
Mouse Logitech G502X Lightspeed
Keyboard Logitech G512 Carbon w/ GX Brown
VR HMD HP Reverb G2 (V2)
Software Win 11
Lots of people poo pooing this.

Intel made the USB spec long ago, and yes, they made the thunderbolt spec. Adding thunderbolt to USB and releasing it free is a great turn for everyone. What's so bad about having more bandwidth available over a USB-C connector?
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,843 (3.95/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
Lots of people poo pooing this.

Intel made the USB spec long ago, and yes, they made the thunderbolt spec. Adding thunderbolt to USB and releasing it free is a great turn for everyone. What's so bad about having more bandwidth available over a USB-C connector?
I believe the discontent is aimed at USB-IF and their "creative" naming past USB 3.0. That's all.
Though I thought Thunderbolt doesn't carry as much current as USB does, so how will that be made backwards compatible? Unless I'm missing something obvious (which is always a possibility).
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.91/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
I bet whats happened is a bunch of hardware was ready to release, and they knew this was coming

so they had to release a name for the upcoming hardware, whilst keeping 'usb 4' for the big version with intels backing
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
1,458 (0.30/day)
Processor Ryzen 9 7950X3D
Motherboard MSI X670E MPG Carbon Wifi
Cooling Custom loop, 2x360mm radiator,Lian Li UNI, EK XRes140,EK Velocity2
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill DDR5-6400 @ 6400MHz C32
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra OC Scanner core +750 mem
Storage MP600 Pro 2TB,960 EVO 1TB,XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB,Micron 1100 2TB,1.5TB Caviar Green
Display(s) Alienware AW3423DWF, Acer XB270HU
Case LianLi O11 Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) Logitech G-Pro X Wireless
Power Supply EVGA P3 1200W
Mouse Logitech G502X Lightspeed
Keyboard Logitech G512 Carbon w/ GX Brown
VR HMD HP Reverb G2 (V2)
Software Win 11
I bet whats happened is a bunch of hardware was ready to release, and they knew this was coming

so they had to release a name for the upcoming hardware, whilst keeping 'usb 4' for the big version with intels backing

Agreed. However USB-IF should have kept USB 3.0 as USB 3.0, USB 3.1 as USB 3.1, and the new USB spec as USB 3.2. What's so hard to understand about USB 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2? Why rename stuff and cause confusion in the interest of "trying to keep from confusion". Like, WTF USB-IF?
 
Top