ARM Revokes Huawei's Chip IP Licence

[FreedomEclipse]

UK has had issue with Huawei's security practices dating back to 2010.

U.K. says Huawei equipment has major security flaws

U.K. officials argue that Huawei has not addressed security concerns in its products and has failed to implement a companywide cybersecurity overhaul it promised in 2012. | Government officials in the U.K. argue that Huawei has not addressed security concerns in its products and has failed to...

www.fiercewireless.com

And are currently barring them from core 5g networks.

Government Bans Huawei Kit from Core UK 5G Mobile Networks

Mobile operators Three UK, Vodafone, EE (BT) and O2 are to be officially told by the Government that they will be banned from deploying hardware and software fr

www.ispreview.co.uk

ARM is unsurprisingly distancing themselves from them.

The irony about this here is about around a year ago, the UK Government were ready to green light plans for China to build a nuclear power station here in the UK for us that probably would of been powerful enough to run a quarter of the UK. Obviously security issues were considered and re-considered and the construction never went ahead but the fact that they even considered it was a laughable one. Its as silly as inviting Russia in to build our Nuclear Submarines.



But yes -- ARM is owned by a big Japanese conglomerate that owns 100% of ARM, Boston Dynamics, Fortress Investment Group and 87.1% stake in Brightstar Corporation -- all of which are American companies. Im guessing that SoftBank Group (The parent company/owners) had to act due to pressure from US Politicians.


Another thing which is also kinda ironic is that EPIC Games is part owned by a big chinese company which has ties to the chinese government but somehow they arent a security risk at all. While telecommunications is of course more important than some software you can install on your PC. It could still become a threat if Tencent buys a bigger stake in the company and start having their own people write the software for the launcher so they could put in all sorts of spyware and backdoors etc etc and its funny because a lot of people play fortenight. All Tencent would have to do is release an update for a launch and of a sudden they can turn every computer on the network into a zombie node

-- It sounds like a hollywood movie i know but you cant rule out that it wont happen since cyber attacks these days are a thing of the future.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The irony about this here is about around a year ago, the UK Government were ready to green light plans for China to build a nuclear power station here in the UK for us that probably would of been powerful enough to run a quarter of the UK. Obviously security issues were considered and re-considered and the construction never went ahead but the fact that they even considered it was a laughable one. Its as silly as inviting Russia in to build our Nuclear Submarines.

China is really the only country actively building boiling water reactors and pressurized water reactors right now. There really isn't many (any) options for alternatives unless you're willing to take on the enormous R&D effort yourself which...no one wants to because cost/benefit isn't there.

But yes, obvious security concerns are obvious. Makes one wonder how secure the reactors in China are. How many state-sponsored actors already have means to cause mass meltdowns in China? Scary thought.

Advantage of old nuclear reactors built during the Cold War being decommissioned today is there are really no systems to even hack.

 

[R0H1T]

This gets more and more bizarre with each passing day. I find it hard to believe this trade ban would reach out this far to ARM. Sure they have their Austin Texas center which usually produces the high performance parts like the A7X core IP and you can say that's US bound but what about the rest ? The low power stuff like the A5X core IP usually comes out of places like Cambridge/Budapest .



Nothing as far as I am concerned, even Apple that make their own custom cores still need the custom license from ARM for the ISA compatiblity. It's too much of a hurdle for Huawei to start making their own microarhitecure/ISA and their own software, they're without question dead.

They have a perpetual license to ARM v8 & I assume anything before that, they can also make custom cores. However they'll still have to pay royalty & we don't know the licensing fine print or contingencies in extenuating circumstances like these.

At a press event in January, Huawei explained their licensing structure with ARM.

https://i.guancha.cn/news/social/2019/0 ... 705158.png
https://i.guancha.cn/news/social/2019/0 ... 714644.png

The slide shows the different tiers of the ARM license, and that Huawei's license is the very top tier.

The bottom red bar of the slide says:

- Huawei has perpetual license to the ARMv8 architecture
- Huawei owns the IP relating to the ARMv8 architecture, and has the right to further develop it independently
- Huawei has the capability to independently develop the ARM architecture, unaffected by outside events

What this means is that:

- The only things that Huawei loses is support from ARM and access to future ARM architectures
- There's no legal barrier for it to manufacture and sell its own ARM variants

Source: https://www.guancha.cn/internation/2019 ... 2745.shtml

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...production-in-doubt/?comments=1&post=37404259

 

[Shihab]

It's refreshing to see that the UK's still following the Blair era whoring to the US. </s>

On a more serious note, I really hope Huawei/China start fighting this with all the -economical- teeth and claws they have. Not really a fan of this de facto monopoly the US has on the tech world, and someone really should have a stand to this political bullying.
Couldn't have imagined I'd be backing the CPC in this life, but whaddya know...

 

[Bansaku]

They don't care. I am sure they already have copy all the ins and outs of ARM's tech.

 

[R-T-B]

Ok now the question is what other alternate does the chinese giant left with if ARM has done this ?

I sorta answered that above. They have home grown MIPS64 chips.

 

[R-T-B]

Nothing as far as I am concerned, even Apple that make their own custom cores still need the custom license from ARM for the ISA compatiblity. It's too much of a hurdle for Huawei to start making their own microarhitecure/ISA and their own software, they're without question dead.

You guys obviously missed my posts.

China currently holds the number one (or did very recently) place in super computers with it's homegrown, domestic designed loongson based MIPS64 system supercomputers. Android fully supports MIPS64. If you think losing an arm license means 0 options you could not be more wrong.

They don't care. I am sure they already have copy all the ins and outs of ARM's tech.

They don't need to. They already did just that with MIPS.

 

[R0H1T]

While your logic is sound the facts wrt supercomputers doesn't hold up, Loongson is so 2018 ~ Summit has held the top spot on the super computing list for nearly a year now. Heck the top 2 are IBM systems.

 

[Deleted member 158293]

ARM just shot themselves in the FOOT




Seriously, only thing this does is prevent ARM from collecting royalties...

 

[R-T-B]

While your logic is sound the facts wrt supercomputers doesn't hold up, Loongson is so 2018 ~ Summit has held the top spot on the super computing list for nearly a year now. Heck the top 2 are IBM systems.

I did say "or did very recently." Loongson is still very high up there.

The most recent TOP500 is a little old (few months), but pegs them third:

Sierra’s ascendance pushed China’s Sunway TaihuLight supercomputer, installed at the National Supercomputing Center in Wuxi, into third place. Prior to last June, it had held the top position on the TOP500 list for two years with its HPL performance of 93.0 petaflops. TaihuLight was developed by China’s National Research Center of Parallel Computer Engineering & Technology (NRCPC).

Still respectable and useful tech.

 

[R0H1T]

The problem with Loongson is we don't know how it holds up against the best/fastest designs of ARM, let alone Power or x86 chips. Which is to say that MIPS might be a great alternative to ARM, for China, but the actual performance on ground, outside of super computers, is anybody's guess atm. China can use it for domestic consumption but in the rest of the world they'll have to compete with ARM, Intel, AMD etc.

 

[R-T-B]

Which is to say that MIPS might be a great alternative to ARM, for China, but the actual performance on groesund, outside of super computers, is anybody's guess atm.

There have been MIPS based notebooks produced by them. They are interesting little octocores. I applies for one from my previous work but was denied. Oh well.

Anyways what I hear is that it's rather energy efficient. I have no idea how the performance scales, but going from a literal 800MHz brick PC called the Fuloong (what I worked on) to a Supercomputer and Octocore MIPS notebook in only 4 years suggest the design is very flexible already.

 

[btarunr]

It's good that Kissinger's monster finally has some resistance.

As RTB (I think) said in the last thread, this will herald a "silicon curtain" between the [real] east and west rivaling the iron curtain of the 20th century. Locked out technologies, un-interoperable architecture, alien software, etc. Not good.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

China loves firewalls. If they're denied access to the great world, why wouldn't they focus on controlling their own populations? They already do that to a massive extent--this is an obvious shove towards the direction they were already going. Either the Chinese accept it, or they resist overthrowing their government. The choice is theirs to make...and bare the costs it brings.

...but no, that's an overly pessimistic view of the situation. More realistic is that Huawei is put out to pasture and China pretends like it never existed. Life goes on...and China probably tries to pull the same stunt with ZTE. It took almost a decade for the west to shut the door on Huawei, contingency plans have probably been in motion for a long time already.

 

[Zubasa]

This is starting to look like a conspiracy. The UK is not the US, and AFAIK Huawei haven't infringed on ARM's IP ...

I can't think of any direct causality between US legal action and ARM's decision so I assume ARM simply doesn't want anything to do with the sinking ship that is Huawei.

ARM might be based in the UK, but it is now own by SoftBank which is a Japanese company.
It is not like a country that had been nuked twice by the USA, and still has US military base and an entire Carrier Strike Group station there would say no to Trump.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Japan telcos pull back sale of new Huawei smartphones

Citing consumer safety concerns and uncertainty over Google's Android support, SoftBank and KDDI have delayed the sale of new handsets from the Chinese vendor, specifically, the Huawei P30 lite, which had been slated to hit the local market on May 24.

www.zdnet.com

Panasonic suspends some component shipments to Huawei amid US blacklisting

Japan's Panasonic said on Thursday it has stopped shipments of certain components to Huawei Technologies to comply with U.S. restrictions on the Chinese company.

www.cnbc.com

The Osaka-based company does not have a major production site for components in the United States, but it said the ban applies to goods having 25% or more of U.S.-originated technologies or materials.

US's military is in and around Japan at Japan's request (off topic):

U.S.–Japan Status of Forces Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[lexluthermiester]

It will certainly deeply wound them. Not certain it will kill them however.

While Android supports MIPS, there are problems with ARM native code which most Android devices run on. Couple that with the fact that Google has banned new devices from the Play store and it's game over for them. FDroid and Aptoide are good and have a lot of great apps, but are no replacements for the official Play store.

 

[phanbuey]

It's refreshing to see that the UK's still following the Blair era whoring to the US. </s>

On a more serious note, I really hope Huawei/China start fighting this with all the -economical- teeth and claws they have. Not really a fan of this de facto monopoly the US has on the tech world, and someone really should have a stand to this political bullying.
Couldn't have imagined I'd be backing the CPC in this life, but whaddya know...

Careful what you wish for. When the CPC becomes more dominant than the US, I think you will see a whole different dimension of monopoly.

 

[Bones]

It's refreshing to see that the UK's still following the Blair era whoring to the US. </s>

On a more serious note, I really hope Huawei/China start fighting this with all the -economical- teeth and claws they have. Not really a fan of this de facto monopoly the US has on the tech world, and someone really should have a stand to this political bullying.
Couldn't have imagined I'd be backing the CPC in this life, but whaddya know...

Careful what you wish for. When the CPC becomes more dominant than the US, I think you will see a whole different dimension of monopoly.

You certainly will, China is out for no one but itself in the end and that's been their goal and endgame for a very long time. If you honestly believe China woudn't make every attempt to take over and control things in your part of the world you really are blind. It's what they've been doing, not in what they say or promise because that speaks louder than any words spoken over it.

China only keeps agreements as long as it suits them to, this pattern has been repeated over and over again which in itself proves what they really have in mind. Actions in the Yellow Sea by building those "Islands" to assume more direct control over it is yet another example of just how agressive towards this end they are. Everyone that's not part of China itself is an adversary in their eyes like it or not - Expect them to play fair, ain't happening.
I have to say in all fairness the US and others aren't innocent either, that's just the truth but the overall means and goal of such is something that matters to everyone no matter where you are.

I can assure you once China gets it's claws into your system and takes over you'll change your mind.....That is if you're not part of it yourself and if you're not, you are a problem to be solved.
And they will solve it if at all possible by any means required of them.

 

[Lorec]

Another thing which is also kinda ironic is that EPIC Games is part owned by a big chinese company which has ties to the chinese government but somehow they arent a security risk at all. While telecommunications is of course more important than some software you can install on your PC. It could still become a threat if Tencent buys a bigger stake in the company and start having their own people write the software for the launcher so they could put in all sorts of spyware and backdoors etc etc and its funny because a lot of people play fortenight.

I like how You mentioned tencent there,
if that would actually be so, is there a chance of for example blizzard backing out from diablo immortal? XD
or like Epic going under?
I know its far fetched but yeah.
Itd only make sense if US was more wary of other Chinese companies from now on...

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I like how You mentioned tencent there,
if that would actually be so, is there a chance of for example blizzard backing out from diablo immortal? XD
or like Epic going under?
I know its far fetched but yeah.
Itd only make sense if US was more wary of other Chinese companies from now on...

Tencent are one of these huge billion dollar conglomerates that have stakes iin almost everything or own a lot of businesses.

If you were a business on its last legs in terms of finances. You wouldn't turn down money from foreign investors...

Tencent supposedly owns some 48.2% stake in epic. So epic still gets to do as they please to a certain extent

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Huawei is officially hot trash:

Huawei unwanted: Asian shops shun phone trade-ins on Google suspension worries

Mobile phone retailers in some Asian countries are refusing to accept Huawei devices for trade-ins, as more consumers look to offload their device on worries Google suspending business with the Chinese firm will disrupt services.

www.reuters.com

 

[SoNic67]

Enjoy your +300% price in the next few month.

And China can enjoy going back to selling nothing... You have to read to see what was China before they stolen all the Western IP with complicity of greedy CEO's.
One starting point:

Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[biffzinker]

Huawei is officially hot trash:

Huawei unwanted: Asian shops shun phone trade-ins on Google suspension worries

Mobile phone retailers in some Asian countries are refusing to accept Huawei devices for trade-ins, as more consumers look to offload their device on worries Google suspending business with the Chinese firm will disrupt services.

www.reuters.com

That reminds me, I've got a gently used Huawei Mate SE if anyone is interested.

 

[pat-roner]

Microsoft creates a criminal monopoly, obliges to use the problematic software (W10) and still steals our data. Facebook does the same... And no one goes to war.

But when Huawei supposedly collects data the end of the world begins... great.

Yeah, the US was not caught spying on the whole world a couple of years ago either