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AMD AGESA 1.0.0.3ABBA Detailed, Fixes Zen2 Boost Issues

Just waiting for asrock taichi version to come out
lol. So even though amd boost says max boost and max boost has always been single core. You want it to boost to two cores because that what you think it should do even though box doesn't say it? hmm lol.

These days when everything is multi-threaded apart from some benchmarks, yes I do think it should do that boost clock on 2 cores and it actually did and does.

1T and 2T boost behavior is almost the same and then it drops off from 3T and above. Interestingly TPUs sample of the 3600 non-X held its 4200 boost clock flat.

boost-clock-analysis.jpg


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boost-clock-analysis-2.jpg
 
Low quality post by RichF
May I propose an auto-ban that will give people a 24 hour break or something for accusing other posters of being fans of any company? Intel. Nvidia. AMD. I don't care. I am so tired of seeing these accusations hurled in basically every discussion here and in comments in most other tech forums. I'm really tired of all the ad homs in general. Can't we have discussions without personal attacks? Is that so much to ask? I was just at another tech forum and a mod jumped in and locked a topic, after insulting the person who posted it, piling on after the previous poster had insulted that person with a lazy objection to the length of the post. There is too much toxicity online and too much knee-jerk laziness when responding to others' efforts. I don't want to see personal attacks from anyone when I read/participate in tech discussions. I don't care how many posts they have and how many years they've been there. Ad homs should be off-limits. They're fallacies, not contributions.

Furthermore, please stop cheerleading for any company. I've seen arguments here that amount to worshipful demands, like how unreasonable it is to require companies' specs to be accurate — especially because failing to do that could enable a competitor to get some easy PR.

We're supposed to like competition. Well, when there is competition there is PR battling. Get used to it. If the PR is erroneous then call it out. If it's picking nits that's okay if those nits are true. If a product doesn't meet its claimed specs then that's noteworthy, even if the real-world impact is low. If the real-world impact is low then, logically, one can argue that the company could have made a lower claim to match the actual results.

We can handle the truth.
 
PROOF. That's the most ubsurd thing I have ever heard. Room temp is like 26c. Secondly- the amount of voltage is not nearly as important as the power draw. Single thread w\ a millisecond of a .2 increase in volts is going to do ZERO to electron migration. You people are NOT even seeing the real time figures yet. Until AMD releases the new monitoring SDK.

Stop the madness.

They just don't like to see a number that they were seeing 15 years ago with their Intel CPUs. They are not going stop. Let them destroy their chips by forcing 24/7 1.35+ all core voltage there, because it's "safe".
 
I recall The Stilt saying the chips can be killed with too-high a voltage, regardless of thermals and current. He said, for instance, that he reckoned that the FX's safe voltage limit is around 1.475. That's 32nm SOI.

His comments, which I don't have in front of me (and therefore must rely on memory from something I read years back) suggested to me that a chip could be degraded or fried very quickly, even without being subjected to a heavy load like Prime — without temperature nor load being needed. However, I have also read things that suggest that higher voltages won't kill chips if they're kept cold enough (i.e. nitrogen), so I'm a little confused.

He also said other things that seem to fly in the face of the conventional wisdom, like the widespread belief that a chip that needs less voltage is a better-quality one. I see that idea everywhere, from forum posts to professional reviews. He said it's basically the opposite. Higher leakage means less voltage required but he said, except under nitrogen, that's worse than higher voltage required and lower leakage. He said, for example, that the 9000 series FX chips were so poor-quality that they would have ended up in the crusher if AMD hadn't decided to create the 220 watt spec for AM3+. So, although the 9590 could hit, let's say 5 GHz, with less voltage than an 8370E, it would use more power and would die sooner at a given high voltage. Not only do the higher-leakage parts waste more power they are more sensitive to electromigration.

So, when we're looking at what safe voltages are it seems that it depends a lot on the leakage of the part. Maybe 1.5V is actually safe if the leakage is low enough? It seems really high to me but I don't know the technical details of the TSMC 7nm process AMD is using. I thought that safe voltage maximums are supposed to shrink as nodes shrink, although things like FinFET probably affect that quite a bit.

I remember Fermi (GF100) being described (in an Anandtech review I think) as an example of Nvidia's strategic intelligence. The notion was that Fermi intentionally had extra high-leakage transistors to increase performance. Given The Stilt's comments, or my understanding of them which may be flawed, I'm not sure how high-leakage transistors are a boon. Was it something about them being able to switch on and off more quickly? Does that apply to CPUs?

Also, some have been concerned that AMD may end up with a higher RMA rate because of this change. If it's the case that the RMA rate will increase one solution the company can do for future production is to realign the binning. This aligns with the improvement to the node that typically happens as it matures as well.
 
Well said. Right there with you, though in a different part of the industry.


No it's a real problem. 1.5v will do bad things to 7nm circuit pathways at room temperature. Electron migration and migation become very real problems at that voltage.
Skip to 7:45

Just because the CPU boosts to 1.5 V for a brief second it doesn't mean that it's doing so at high current.
 
Just because the CPU boosts to 1.5 V for a brief second it doesn't mean that it's doing so at high current.
Is high current required for degradation at any particular voltage? If not, what is the voltage where significant degradation will occur without high current?

How does heat play into it? If significant degradation can occur without high heat (let's say 50C) but with high voltage what voltage would that be?

How does individual chip variability play into it, since different parts of a wafer have different levels of leakage? How perfect is the binning, when it comes to matching that with maximum voltage (including in terms of heat if that's quite important)?
 
So many experts here...
Apparently the conclusion of these keyboard experts is that AMD is selling a product that will blow up instantly.
Strange, my CPU is working better than ever after three months...

In all fairness, I haven't had to wait three months for my past Intel CPUs to deliver the box spec, but based on my Ryzen 1700 experience, I already knew what I was getting myself into.
 
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1) Three months isn't very much time when it comes to electromigration unless you're being really aggressive with voltage, correct?

2) Variability in wafers results in different levels of quality. If the binning is imperfect then one chip that's rated for a specific product slot might not match another chip with the same name/slot. So, what's a certain level of safe for one might not be as safe for another.

3) Did I miss answers to my questions that occurred in prior posts in this topic? Because, instead of being an expert, I have a lot of questions.

There is also the issue of motherboard voltage accuracy. The ASUS Crosshair Formula Z AM3+ board had a reputation for underreporting voltage. And, there is LLC spiking.
 
1) Three months isn't very much time when it comes to electromigration unless you're being really aggressive with voltage, correct?

2) Variability in wafers results in different levels of quality. If the binning is imperfect then one chip that's rated for a specific product slot might not match another chip with the same name/slot. So, what's a certain level of safe for one might not be as safe for another.

3) Did I miss answers to my questions that occurred in prior posts in this topic? Because, instead of being an expert, I have a lot of questions.

There is also the issue of motherboard voltage accuracy. The ASUS Crosshair Formula Z AM3+ board had a reputation for underreporting voltage. And, there is LLC spiking.

It's not? Sound like it should've exploded as soon as I powered on my system based on the comments here.

And you truly believe AMD's binning is that bad? Right...

That was a general reply to this thread, as everyone has an opinion, but no-one here works for AMD as far as I know.

As to what motherboard makers do or don't do, is hardly AMD's fault now, is it?

Also, looking at Ryzen Master, the Voltages are quite different from those in HWInfo, with the latter seemingly reporting up to 250mV higher numbers, doing a side by side comparison. This is especially true during mostly idle scenarios.
 
It's not? Sound like it should've exploded as soon as I powered on my system based on the comments here.
Hyperbole isn't productive.
And you truly believe AMD's binning is that bad? Right...
Citation needed. I made no claims about AMD's binning.
That was a general reply to this thread, as everyone has an opinion, but no-one here works for AMD as far as I know.
It was inaccurate and combative.
As to what motherboard makers do or don't do, is hardly AMD's fault now, is it?
Irrelevant.

I was trying to point out that there are a lot of variables that may need to be taken into account. How, for example, can anyone make claims about safe/unsafe voltage when they don't know if their motherboard is giving them accurate information? What about LLC spiking? My understanding is that increasing the aggressiveness of LLC increases the risk of high transient spikes.

My posts have nothing to do with being pro-AMD or against AMD. I consider that topic superfluous.
 
All your input is seemingly just opinions though.
Do you actually own a Ryzen 3000 setup?
If not, then please start your own thread where you can discuss pointless things.

I've provided details, but that's clearly being ignored, not just by you, but everyone else as well.

Yes, AMD is shit. Can we be done with it now?
 
All your input is seemingly just opinions though.
Nope.
Do you actually own a Ryzen 3000 setup?
Nope.
If not, then please start your own thread where you can discuss pointless things.
Nope. I am more interested in answers to my questions. Since you aren't providing any I'll wait for someone else to, here.
I've provided details, but that's clearly being ignored, not just by you, but everyone else as well.
Oh?
Yes, AMD is shit. Can we be done with it now?
:rolleyes:
 
Nope.

Nope.

Nope. I am more interested in answers to my questions. Since you aren't providing any I'll wait for someone else to, here.

Oh?

:rolleyes:
Unless they're AMD's employees you won't get any here.
 
Unless they're AMD's employees you won't get any here.
The Stilt, I've recently read, works for one of the motherboard companies. He has posted in quite a few forums over the years. Since he, and others, frequent forums I assumed that some people are able to answer these questions.

And, even if no one answers them they can be food for thought.
 
In spite of everything, at least AMD acknowledged the issue (yes, after being forced to) and is working to fix it. Compared to Intel, I see this as a plus (though I'll be the first to state that some other entity's guilty actions are never an excuse for your own). Perhaps in a few more weeks they'll have it ironed out even more.

When considering the totality of all this though, it doesn't profoundly affect the value of AMD's processors and I seriously doubt that any human being would be able to notice a 100mhz dip in performance. Nonetheless, I can still understand why owners would like to get every ounce of performance for which they paid.

lol what a slimy post.
 
The Stilt, I've recently read, works for one of the motherboard companies. He has posted in quite a few forums over the years. Since he, and others, frequent forums I assumed that some people are able to answer these questions.

And, even if no one answers them they can be food for thought.

Unfortunately you are not going to get the answers or discussion you are looking for here. I would love to hear the answers to your questions, but it's not going to happen here. As you can see, you will be branded a AMD hater or Intel fanboy.
 
1T and 2T boost behavior is almost the same and then it drops off from 3T and above.

boost-clock-analysis.jpg


boost-clock-analysis.jpg

Yep, as long as people are looking at the "max" values at the bottom of the chart rather than the "average" values on the chart itself. Some people in here don't seem to understand the distinction.

It's worth noting that the 3700X here only reaches 4.38GHz max clock. OH, THE HORROR! Deprived of that 0.45% performance for a few miliseconds I might as well boycott AMD forever.
:laugh:
 
More from AMD on the topic.
 
Yep, as long as people are looking at the "max" values at the bottom of the chart rather than the "average" values on the chart itself. Some people in here don't seem to understand the distinction.

It's worth noting that the 3700X here only reaches 4.38GHz max clock. OH, THE HORROR! Deprived of that 0.45% performance for a few miliseconds I might as well boycott AMD forever.
:laugh:
LMAO !
I agree the .25 Mhz lower Max Boost only makes a difference for me when Benchmarking as far as I can tell.
I have a 3700x on an Asus ROG Strix B450-F (BIOS 2704 - AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB) that I installed last week and it hits 4.375 GHz with PBO off and 4.425 Ghz with PBO on.
And it idles around 32-34c and maxes out around 60-62c while gaming and under heavy loads (like video encoding).
And as I have stated in a few different threads, I am VERY happy with it as it is.
I certainly won't complain if the new AGESA nets me higher Boost clocks AND better performance though.
 
You trolling? Or is that like some Nvidia reference?
Both likely. And very poorly done.

Just because the CPU boosts to 1.5 V for a brief second it doesn't mean that it's doing so at high current.
While that is true, at 1.5v electronmigation(the process wherein electrons cause degradation to the circuit pathway) WILL damage the CPU over time. At 7nm the pathways are simply do not have enough mass to withstand the flow of electrons. When you increase the amps applied as well, the damage being done becomes exponential at a certain point.

However there is a variable to this equation that AMD has not made public. The voltage applied to the CPU package as a whole is not what is being delivered to the actual CPU core dies themselves. This is because of the difference in process nodes between the CCX and the CPU cores. So when the UEFI state tells a monitoring utility(such as Ryzen Master) what the voltage is, it's reading voltage delivery for the entire package instead of on a per die basis. So when a reading is saying that 1.475v is being applied to the package the actual voltage reaching the CPU cores is lower as it's been filtered through the power regulation circuitry within the package itself. The voltage supplied to the package is broken down and passed along to the CCX at one voltage and the CPU dies at a separate, lower level(what that ratio is was not disclosed). Don't ask for links, there aren't any as this info came from a phone call. However it makes sense given how the new Ryzen packages are made.
 
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electronmigation

Why is it you keep making up words all the time?

You seem to at least have been given good info, by whoever you talked to.
Since my first response got quoted below, I was a bit too quick to reply after reading the first part.
 
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Why is it you keep making up words all the time?
It's not "made up". Clearly you've not encountered the word. I'm certain there are many more you've not encountered. That term was created in 2004 when engineers using an electron microscope discovered damage done to IC pathways caused by over-voltage conditions.
He forgot the letter R
No, that is a different term describing a different condition.
 
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It's not "made up". Clearly you've not encountered the word. I'm certain there are many more you've not encountered. That term was created in 2004 when engineers using an electron microscope discovered damage done to IC pathways caused by over-voltage conditions.

No, that different term describing a different condition.

There is no such word, please. Show me one link where someone uses that "word". It can't be a spelling mistake.
This doesn't count either.
 
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