AMD Ryzen 4000 Rumored to Bring 15% IPC Uplift

[Uskompuf]

AMD's Zen 3 architecture will power the next generation Ryzen 4000 desktop chips and the 3rd Gen EPYC lineup which are both expected to launch later this year. Adored TV has received some leaked information detailing the technical specifications of the Zen 3 architecture. The majority of the leaked information confirmed existing rumors such as the 8 core CCX, higher clocks and lower power draw.

However the leak suggests IPC improvements will be less than the expected 20% hinted at by AMD and may end up being closer to 10 - 15%. The leak also claims that L3 cache will remain at 32 MB however it will no longer be split due to the single CCX. While this may be disappointing for some, remember to take the claims with a grain of salt as with any rumor.



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[T1beriu]

The majority of the leaked information confirmed existing rumors

Rumors confirming rumors. Nice! /s

 

[ARF]

Rumors confirming rumors. Nice!

The unified L3 cache alone should bring quite substantial performance improvement.
The CCX complex is now 8-core, up from 4-core previously.

Zen 4 will likely be 16-core on one chiplet.

 

[Ruru]

Would be an ok boost from 3rd gen, I decided no to upgrade yet from 2600, now let's just hope that B550 is arriving soon.

 

[ncrs]

Leaked information? This was already known from the AMD presentation from 2019 on EPYC Genoa among others, it was even on youtube at some point.

 

[efikkan]

This is not newsworthy, it's just more speculation from the same "source" which promised 5 GHz Zen 2…

All improvements in performance per core will be appreciated, but let's not conclude until we have some real information.

 

[ratirt]

Would be an ok boost from 3rd gen, I decided no to upgrade yet from 2600, now let's just hope that B550 is arriving soon.

Same here. Waiting for the 3rd gen Ryzen and if 15% turns out to be true it will be my upgrade route for my current 2700x. I just hope I will be able to slap that new CPU in my x470 without losing any important advantages of the new chipset. Hopefully.

 

[SL2]

Zen 4 will likely be 16-core on one chiplet.

It won't, because it would defeat the purpose with chiplets (partly).

There's no point in having 16 cores in one chiplet when the vast majority of CPU's sold are 8 cores or less, that's a huge waste of die area.
Imagine a 4600X being sold with TEN cores disabled..
Remember, this is still 7 nm, only a tad better than the current one, so the chances of seeing AM4 CPU's with more than 16 cores are extremely slim.

 

[Chrispy_]

AdoredTV?

Also, Big Navi tomorrow and Intel's 5nm 11th gen tested!

 

[ARF]

It won't, because it would defeat the purpose with chiplets (partly).

There's no point in having 16 cores in one chiplet when the vast majority of CPU's sold are 8 cores or less, that's a huge waste of die area.
Imagine a 4600X being sold with TEN cores disabled..
Remember, this is still 7 nm, only a tad better than the current one, so the chances of seeing AM4 CPU's with more than 16 cores are extremely slim.

You mix Zen 3 with Zen 4. Zen 3 is right now in September, Zen 4 is next year on TSMC N5P node.

Mark Papermaster already officially stated that MORE CORES are coming
Get ready for MORE CORES!

AMD CTO Mark Papermaster: More Cores Coming in the 'Era of a Slowed Moore's Law'

Get ready for more cores

www.tomshardware.com

 

[odio_i_fanboy]

Adored TV??? Uhm... well, navi at 250$ with performances near 2080ti confirmed

 

[SL2]

You mix Zen 3 with Zen 4.

You're right, didn't see the Zen 4 part.
Still, disabling 10 out of 16 cores is a bad idea, maybe we'll see more than one kind of chiplet.

Also, as long as the sales of 16 core CPU's won't ramp up we won't be seeing a higher core count in mainstream desktop anytime soon.
TR and Epyc is a different story tho, core count will keep on climbing there.

On a side note, I'm still curious if putting the first 8 cores with lower latencies on the IO chip would improve the gaming performance.
Imagine CPU's with 8 cores or less only having one single chip with both IO and cores, while those with more cores have one or two more chiplets with 8 cores each.

8 core Ryzen: one die with both IO and cores (old school style).
16 core Ryzen: one die with both IO and cores, plus one chiplet with 8 cores.
24 core Ryzen: one die with both IO and cores, plus two chiplets with 8 cores each.

 

[ARF]

You're right, didn't see the Zen 4 part.
Still, disabling 10 out of 16 cores is a bad idea, maybe we'll see more than one kind of chiplet.

Also, as long as the sales of 16 core CPU's won't ramp up we won't be seeing a higher core count in mainstream desktop anytime soon.

On a side note, I'm still curious if putting the first 8 cores with lower latencies on the IO chip would improve the gaming performance.
Imagine CPU's with 8 cores or less only having one single chip with both IO and cores, while those with more cores have one or two more chiplets with 8 cores each.

8 core Ryzen: one die with both IO and cores (old school style).
16 core Ryzen: one die with both IO and cores, plus one chiplet with 8 cores.
24 core Ryzen: one die with both IO and cores, plus two chiplets with 8 cores each.

They have Renoir and future Zen 3 Dali APUs.

Their lineup may look like this:

Ryzen 9 5950X 32-core
Ryzen 9 5900X 24- or 28-core
Ryzen 7 5700X 16-core
Ryzen 5 5600X 12- or 14-core
Ryzen 5 5500G 8-core APU with Navi
Ryzen 3..... etc Dali APU Zen 3 with Navi.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I don’t see anything wrong with just a 10-15% IPC increase. That’s still a pretty substantial generational gain.

 

[SL2]

Ryzen 9 5950X 32-core
Ryzen 9 5900X 24- or 28-core
Ryzen 7 5700X 16-core
Ryzen 5 5600X 12- or 14-core
Ryzen 5 5500G 8-core APU with Navi
Ryzen 3..... etc Dali APU Zen 3 with Navi.

No, 32 cores mainstream would cannibalize the TR sales, without really selling that much (see 3950X). I highly doubt this would happen in the next year.

 

[ARF]

No, 32 cores mainstream would cannibalize the TR sales, without really selling that much (see 3950X). I highly doubt this would happen in the next year.

Next year can be Q4 2021, so quite a lot of time till then.
Also, Threadripper can become 64-core, while EPYC 128-core for sure.

 

[R0H1T]

Rumors confirming rumors. Nice! /s

Slow news days

However the leak suggests IPC improvements will be less than the expected 20% hinted at by AMD

I don't remember AMD or anyone from AMD hinting at anything like 20% ~ that seems like a made up number

This is not newsworthy, it's just more speculation from the same "source" which promised 5 GHz Zen 2…

All improvements in performance per core will be appreciated, but let's not conclude until we have some real information.

When you spout enough BS, eventually one of'em is bound to come true kinda like how WTFtech operates!

 

[ARF]

I don't remember AMD or anyone from AMD hinting at anything like 20% ~ that seems like a made up number

Best case depending on the instructions and app sensitivity with the architectural changes may be a lot more than just 20%.

 

[Kaotik]

Err, AMD never suggested +20% IPC like the news claims.
AMD said two things:
- Zen 2s 15% gain is higher than evolutional upgrades usually have
- Zen 3 is expected to bring similar gains as new architectures (opposed to evolutional upgrade) do

They never said it's higher (or lower for that matter) than the 15% Zen 2 got, nor did they even hint such. Only thing about Zen 3 performance they said is "it's IPC gains are in the range people usually expect from new architecture"

 

[fb020997]

Same here. Waiting for the 3rd gen Ryzen and if 15% turns out to be true it will be my upgrade route for my current 2700x. I just hope I will be able to slap that new CPU in my x470 without losing any important advantages of the new chipset. Hopefully.

Add me to the list of upgrades. I have absolutely zero need to upgrade, but 7nm+, huge single core performance and enormous efficiency are very tempting.
BTW, this’ll be the 4th version of Ryzen, and 3rd (and half, countin Zen+ as half) generation of the Zen architecture.

EDIT: We have nearly the same hardware! Both 2700X+Vega 64+X470+16GB DDR4 3200+NVMe!

 

[Punkenjoy]

You're right, didn't see the Zen 4 part.
Still, disabling 10 out of 16 cores is a bad idea, maybe we'll see more than one kind of chiplet.

Also, as long as the sales of 16 core CPU's won't ramp up we won't be seeing a higher core count in mainstream desktop anytime soon.
TR and Epyc is a different story tho, core count will keep on climbing there.

On a side note, I'm still curious if putting the first 8 cores with lower latencies on the IO chip would improve the gaming performance.
Imagine CPU's with 8 cores or less only having one single chip with both IO and cores, while those with more cores have one or two more chiplets with 8 cores each.

8 core Ryzen: one die with both IO and cores (old school style).
16 core Ryzen: one die with both IO and cores, plus one chiplet with 8 cores.
24 core Ryzen: one die with both IO and cores, plus two chiplets with 8 cores each.

If you leave your game on the first die with I/O, Maybe, but as ssoon as there is something going to the other chiplets without direct memory access, the performance will suffer. Just look at the Threadripper second gen vs third gen.

OS, games and other programs do not like heteregenous core. They like when everything is the same and react the same way. Some handle this setup better (like linux run better on threadripper second gen), but they aren't still as fast as a processor without NUMA nodes.

Also i do not recall seeing 2-% for Zen 3. The number was always between 10-15% (most people said around 15%)

 

[Daven]

AMD will probably use monolithic APUs for the low end (8 cores or less) and reserve chiplets with higher core counts for the mainstream and high end.

 

[GeorgeMan]

So, let's say late 2020 the Ryzen 4000 launch. Prices settle down around 4 months later, say Q1-Q2 2021. Half a year after that, Zen 4 (Ryzen 5000 series) launch using new socket and hybrid DDR4-5 technology.

Imagine someone who bought a Ryzen 1600 in Q2 2017, updated to Ryzen 3600 in Q4 2019, further updating to a used 4900X somewhere around 2022 (or even used 3950X in 2021 if the Zen 3 series prove not to be compatible). I think AM4 is the most successful platform ever, better than LGA775. He's gonna enjoy a highly performing computer for around 6 years without changing any other component.

 

[ratirt]

Add me to the list of upgrades. I have absolutely zero need to upgrade, but 7nm+, huge single core performance and enormous efficiency are very tempting.
BTW, this’ll be the 4th version of Ryzen, and 3rd (and half, countin Zen+ as half) generation of the Zen architecture.

EDIT: We have nearly the same hardware! Both 2700X+Vega 64+X470+16GB DDR4 3200+NVMe!

I'm lost with those naming schemes. Let's say Ryzen 4000 Desktop Series and call it a day

 

[Dazzm8]

They never said it's higher (or lower for that matter) than the 15% Zen 2 got, nor did they even hint such. Only thing about Zen 3 performance they said is "it's IPC gains are in the range people usually expect from new architecture"

Which kind of brings us to the point of this whole topic, Zen2 was an incremental upgrade and not an entirely new architecture, it managed to bring 'around' 15% increased IPC gains.

Zen3 being an entirely new architecture, you can kind of see why people are expecting >15% IPC gains.

For people wondering, the quotes were from Forrest Norrod of AMD if you want to look them up in regards to Zen3 performance that people are reading in to.