Take-Two CEO Calls Google Stadia a "Dissapointment"

[ratirt]

Sub 100ms average.

That should not be so difficult to achieve. I need to check my net connection and verify.

 

[lexluthermiester]

That should not be so difficult to achieve. I need to check my net connection and verify.

That is bare minimum for 30FPS gaming. It has to be much lower(sub50ms) for anything near 60FPS.

 

[Vayra86]

I've not tried that ever. Been hoping someone can shed some light on this and the experience. Never even thought about giving it a try even though it's been around for a while now. The idea may not be stupid or pointless but the execution seems lacking a lot.

When I do in-home streaming, which you could probably do yourself right now, I'm already suffering some 20-30ms latency in the local network from the moment stuff gets processed upstairs and streamed over wire to the TV downstairs. Go figure That is a dedicated set of machines over a full wired local network. It 'feels' like playing with half Vsync. Sluggish. A bit like 60 FPS becomes 30~40. Best case it feels like '50'. A bit choppy; playable nonetheless.

Add distance, server hops, and round trip latency on top of that and you can get an idea. If a 60 FPS frame takes 13ms, you can easily triple that for your minimum required connection latency.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Sub 100ms average.

60 hz = 16.67 ms
120 hz = 8.33 ms
144 hz = 6.94 ms
240 hz = 4.17 ms

People can easily tell the difference between 60 hz and 120 hz which is just an 8.33 ms difference. Network lag is on top of all that...and it's a two way street: it takes time for inputs to get to the server, be rendered, encoded, received, decoded, then displayed.

It really needs to be LAN speed or ~1 ms round-trip time. Anymore and you'll be able to tell you're streaming.


Even at LAN speeds using Steam Link, you can tell there's a crapload of compression noise in racing games (Dirt Rally). It's much harder to drive fast on Steam Link than it is in front of the computer because that loss in detail...that's right where you have to look to judge the next turn.


It's just... a terrible idea in general...unless all you play is slow, turn-based games.

 

[lexluthermiester]

60 hz = 16.67 ms
120 hz = 8.33 ms
144 hz = 6.94 ms
240 hz = 4.17 ms

People can easily tell the difference between 60 hz and 120 hz which is just an 8.33 ms difference. Network lag is on top of all that...and it's a two way street: it takes time for inputs to get to the server, be rendered, encoded, received, decoded, then displayed.

It really needs to be LAN speed or ~1 ms round-trip time. Anymore and you'll be able to tell you're streaming.


Even at LAN speeds using Steam Link, you can tell there's a crapload of compression noise in racing games (Dirt Rally). It's much harder to drive fast on Steam Link than it is in front of the computer because that loss in detail...that's right where you have to look to judge the next turn.


It's just... a terrible idea in general...unless all you play is slow, turn-based games.

Exactly. We also have to account for network processing time, system data processing time on each side of the connection. 40ms for 60FPS assumes little to no packet loss and that all has to happen at high bandwidth.

 

[windwhirl]

Sub 100ms average.

I'd say below 50 ms, specially if you have the lame-ass reflexes I have lol

 

[FordGT90Concept]

It's additive though. If you sucked at 0 ms then you're going to play like a terrible drunk at 50 ms.

 

[Vayra86]

It's additive though. If you sucked at 0 ms then you're going to play like a terrible drunk at 50 ms.

There is one small upside to a constant higher latency. We can compensate a little bit for it. I still remember how I played MMO's at 10-20 FPS over a shitty connection. Or UT'99 over 56k. You compensated for the delay and after some time get used to it, play would noticeably improve.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I do remember life as an HBP, as long as the latency was consistent, you can adapt. There is still a threshold of what is bearable. I had 120ms ping back in the Q2 days and did fine. Granted, it was more of a level playing field, as only kids on the college dorm networks had broadband at that time.

Today, I’m on Google Fiber, and a quick speedtest tells my my latency is not an issue. Maybe Stadia was meant to dovetail with their fiber service? I’m on a 500/500 tier.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Except that the ping you see when streaming is between the game server and the streaming server, not you and the streaming server. In multiplayer, there would therefore be two instances of latency (game server <-> streaming server + stream server <-> player), not just one. Additive.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Yeah, like I said, I had wondered how this service was doing. Seems like a solution looking for a problem. The current gaming industry is huge, so it’s not like people aren’t finding the money to scrape together to just pay for the hardware and games. It’s not that expensive of a pastime, especially if you don’t feel the need to buy the games right when they come out. I always waited out the single player games until they got really cheap, or even free with PS+ or Live. MP games tend to stay more current, but even there, there are exceptions.

 

[HugsNotDrugs]

Sub 100ms average.

That's not low. Try <20ms.

 

[RoutedScripter]

I will stay with local/offline gaming/working on my own machine. thank you very much and watch out for the step on the way out.