• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel "Rocket Lake-S" a Multi-Chip Module of 14nm Core and 10nm Uncore Dies?

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,297 (7.53/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
VLSI engineer and industry analyst, @chiakokhua, who goes by "Retired Engineer" on Twitter, was among the very first voices that spoke about 3rd gen Ryzen socket AM4 processors being multi-chip modules of core- and uncore dies built on different silicon fabrication processes, which was an unbelievable theory at the time. He now has a fantastic theory of what "Rocket Lake-S" could look like, dating back to November 2019, which is now re-surfacing on tech communities. Apparently, Intel is designing these socket LGA1200 processors to be multi-chip modules, similar to "Matisse" in some ways, but different in others.

Apparently, "Rocket Lake-S" is a multi-chip module of a 14 nm die that holds the CPU cores; and 10 nm die that holds the uncore components. AMD "Matisse" and "Vermeer" too have such a division of labor, but the CPU cores are located on dies with a more advanced silicon fabrication process (7 nm), than the die with the uncore components (12 nm).



The 14 nm CPU die on "Rocket Lake-S" holds "Willow Cove" CPU cores that are purported to introduce significant IPC gains over "Skylake." In this die, there are CPU cores and a reduced-functionality system agent, which are bound together by a Ring-bus interconnect. This system agent talks to its counterpart on the uncore die (aka "GPU die"), over EMIB interconnect.

The 10 nm GPU die (aka uncore die) features the processor's Gen12 Xe iGPU with up to 96 execution units, a dual-channel DDR4 memory controller, and a PCI-Express 4.0 root-complex, besides other minor components related to the iGPU, such as its display- and media engines.

Unlike every past Intel mainstream desktop generation since "Lynnfield," the "Rocket Lake-S" MCM puts out a total of 24 PCI-Express lanes. 16 of these are assigned as PEG (PCI-Express Graphics, or the main PCI-Express x16 slot on the platform); and 8 lanes are assigned as chipset bus. In past microarchitectures, including "Comet Lake-S," the processor only put out 20 lanes, 16 of which are toward PEG, and 4 toward the chipset-bus (DMI).

This won't be the first time that Intel took the MCM approach in its mainstream desktop processors. The first generation "Clarkdale" desktop processor in the LGA1156 package was an MCM of a 32 nm CPU die, and a 45 nm uncore die (which contained the iGPU).

Why Intel chose to give the iGPU, rather than the CPU cores, the advantage of the more advanced silicon fabrication process is a mystery that will only be solved after launch. Perhaps it's simply not possible to build a Gen12 iGPU on 14 nm, while the efficiency of "Willow Cove" CPU cores, originally designed for 10 nm+, can survive a back-port to 14 nm better. "Willow Cove" cores make their debut with the "Tiger Lake-U" mobile processors.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,141 (0.53/day)
Location
Serbia
Processor Ryzen 5600
Motherboard X570 I Aorus Pro
Cooling Deepcool AG400
Memory HyperX Fury 2 x 8GB 3200 CL16
Video Card(s) RX 6700 10GB SWFT 309
Storage SX8200 Pro 512 / NV2 512
Display(s) 24G2U
Case NR200P
Power Supply Ion SFX 650
Mouse G703 (TTC Gold 60M)
Keyboard Keychron V1 (Akko Matcha Green) / Apex m500 (Gateron milky yellow)
Software W10
:sniff: :sniff:
Is that glue I'm smelling?!
 

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,297 (7.53/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,821 (1.33/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5)
Video Card(s) INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2
Storage 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X
Display(s) 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q
Case Thermaltake Core P5
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W
Mouse Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE
Keyboard Corsair K100 RGB
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
Wouldn't it make much more sense the other way around - 10nm cores and 14nm everything else? Both Intel and AMD have said at various points that IO does not scale down too well. IO Die and the "GPU Die" on this picture both have a bunch of IO at its core. I really don't see what 10nm uncore would bring to the table. They are hopefully not going that big with the GPU.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
542 (0.23/day)
Wouldn't it make much more sense the other way around - 10nm cores and 14nm everything else?
I really don't see what 10nm uncore would bring to the table. They are hopefully not going that big with the GPU.

Intel has started Gen12 design with 10nm in mind. Porting this over to 14nm would cost a lot of money. It's probably the same with PCIe 4.0 controllers and other I/O.

10nm/+ is (currently) unable to attain as high clocks as 14nm+++++++.
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
238 (0.05/day)
Processor 3700X
Motherboard X570 TUF Plus
Cooling U12
Memory 32GB 3600MHz
Video Card(s) eVGA GTX970
Storage 512GB 970 Pro
Case CM 500L vertical
Intel has started Gen12 design with 10nm in mind. Porting this over to 14nm would cost a lot of money. It's probably the same with PCIe 4.0 controllers and other I/O.

10nm/+ is (currently) unable to attain as high clocks as 14nm+++++++.

Yeah, that's my guess as well. Intel probably also designed their PCIe 4 IP (or licensed) for 10nm, not 14nm, along with their newer RAM controllers and display controllers. Meanwhile, the CPU teams have been getting a LOT of experience on 14nm, while all of the other teams have been waiting on the few meager 10nm products.
 
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
98 (0.03/day)
Die costs increase dramatically as monolithic dies become larger. Packing in several cores, a large capable GPU and advanced I/O quickly gets out of hand. Splitting these between multiple dies on a single package drives costs way down. It also distributes heat a bit better.

Intel was caught with their pants down because they were reliant on small monolithic dies where they could fit four cores and a GPU while keeping costs low. That doesn't scale up well to meet the competition AMD is bringing, which is brilliant.

It's great to see Intel gluing chips together.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
7,563 (1.77/day)
The 14 nm CPU die on "Rocket Lake-S" holds up to eight "Willow Cove" CPU cores that are purported to introduce significant IPC gains over "Skylake."
I can count 10 cores in the image above, also WTH is up with that ginormous IGP :wtf:

1591895834854.png
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
542 (0.23/day)
WTH is up with that ginormous IGP :wtf:

The Rocket Lake diagram might not be to scale, but the iGPU in Ice Lake is relatively big as well:



Edit: oh and Tiger Lake is supposed to have 1.5x the EU of Ice Lake for the GPU which will also be Gen12. How will that affect the size? Only Intel knows ;)
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
5,847 (0.81/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
System Name Firelance.
Processor Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory 8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage 2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s) 3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Razer Pro Type Ultra
Software Windows 10 Professional x64
btarunr said:
Apparently, Intel is designing these socket LGA1200 processors to be multi-chip modules, similar to "Matisse" in some ways, but different in others. Apparently, "Rocket Lake-S" is a multi-chip module of a 14 nm die that holds the CPU cores; and 10 nm die that holds the uncore components

Better to use "Allegedly" or "According to "Retired Engineer"".
 

ppn

Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
1,231 (0.36/day)
I can count 10 cores in the image above, also WTH is up with that ginormous IGP :wtf:

The 10nm part of RKL should be ~~92mm2, plus the additional 24 PCIe lanes.
The CPU portion 4C 41mm2 is removed and then upscaled to 14 nm and 128mm2 8C.

So the CPU is bigger in the end, and the GPU part isn't very likely to have 96ALu like in TGL but 24 instead.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (2.78/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
If this turns out to be true, it's just another illustration of how horribly broken Intel's 10nm process still is. Better suited for an I/O die than for high-performance compute cores, even though I/O by its very nature is the thing that scales the worst with node shrinks, and has the least to gain from it? Yeah, that process node is crap.
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
289 (0.06/day)
Processor Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus Prime X570 Pro
Cooling Deepcool LS-720
Memory 32 GB (4x 8GB) DDR4-3600 CL16
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon RX 7900 XTX Red Devil
Storage Samsung PM9A1 (980 Pro OEM) + 960 Evo NVMe SSD + 830 SATA SSD + Toshiba & WD HDD's
Display(s) Samsung C32HG70
Case Lian Li O11D Evo
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster Zx
Power Supply Seasonic 750W Focus+ Platinum
Mouse Logitech G703 Lightspeed
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex Pro
Software Windows 11 Pro
nevermind this, they're both wrong (the handdrawn and the old diagram from last november which is used in this news piece)
 

ppn

Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
1,231 (0.36/day)
Well if that is the case, who would want that abomination with the memory controller being on a separate die.. Intel went back in time to I5-650. Just double the core count of the already decent Tigerlake increase the size from 146 to 190mm2, that is all it takes, and at least 28 pcie lanes for 1x4 NVMe to CPU + 2x4 to the PCH + 16x GFX.. Now we have to wait for the refresh Sandybridge-like. to put everything back together.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
8,261 (1.32/day)
Processor Intel i9 9900K @5GHz w/ Corsair H150i Pro CPU AiO w/Corsair HD120 RBG fan
Motherboard Asus Z390 Maximus XI Code
Cooling 6x120mm Corsair HD120 RBG fans
Memory Corsair Vengeance RBG 2x8GB 3600MHz
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 3080Ti STRIX OC
Storage Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB , 970 EVO 1TB, Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD, 10TB Synology DS1621+ RAID5
Display(s) Corsair Xeneon 32" 32UHD144 4K
Case Corsair 570x RBG Tempered Glass
Audio Device(s) Onboard / Corsair Virtuoso XT Wireless RGB
Power Supply Corsair HX850w Platinum Series
Mouse Logitech G604s
Keyboard Corsair K70 Rapidfire
Software Windows 11 x64 Professional
Benchmark Scores Firestrike - 23520 Heaven - 3670
Can intel just eff off with iGPU's already? We dont want them.
 

ppn

Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
1,231 (0.36/day)
The GPU part takes the space that can be occupied by 4 perfect Willow Coves. This is so frustrating at times. Just offer the 2 options you either want 8 cores or 4 cores+GPU,. same size same price.

TGLDie.jpg
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
774 (0.23/day)
Location
Earth's Troposphere
System Name 3 "rigs"-gaming/spare pc/cruncher
Processor R7-5800X3D/i7-7700K/R9-7950X
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VI Extreme/Asus Ranger Z170/Asus ROG Crosshair X670E-GENE
Cooling Bitspower monoblock ,custom open loop,both passive and active/air tower cooler/air tower cooler
Memory 32GB DDR4/32GB DDR4/64GB DDR5
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RX6900XT Alphacooled/AMD RX5700XT 50th Aniv./SOC(onboard)
Storage mix of sata ssds/m.2 ssds/mix of sata ssds+an m.2 ssd
Display(s) Dell UltraSharp U2410 , HP 24x
Case mb box/Silverstone Raven RV-05/CoolerMaster Q300L
Audio Device(s) onboard/onboard/onboard
Power Supply 3 Seasonics, a DeltaElectronics, a FractalDesing
Mouse various/various/various
Keyboard various wired and wireless
VR HMD -
Software W10.someting or another,all 3
"Cheryl /( Carol / Corina / various other names she went by ) : can I glue up?"
To which Malory responded :"It's your house."
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
982 (0.22/day)
System Name Poor Man's PC
Processor Ryzen 7 9800X3D
Motherboard MSI B650M Mortar WiFi
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 with Arctic P12 Max fan
Memory 32GB GSkill Flare X5 DDR5 6000Mhz
Video Card(s) XFX Merc 310 Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage XPG Gammix S70 Blade 2TB + 8 TB WD Ultrastar DC HC320
Display(s) Xiaomi G Pro 27i MiniLED
Case Asus A21 Case
Audio Device(s) MPow Air Wireless + Mi Soundbar
Power Supply Enermax Revolution DF 650W Gold
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 3
Keyboard Logitech Pro X + Kailh box heavy pale blue switch + Durock stabilizers
VR HMD Meta Quest 2
Benchmark Scores Who need bench when everything already fast?
Now we just wait for "Intel 10nm are better than TSMC 7nm / 5nm bla..bla "
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
1,260 (0.30/day)
Location
Artem S. Tashkinov
Why Intel chose to give the iGPU, rather than the CPU cores, the advantage of the more advanced silicon fabrication process is a mystery that will only be solved after launch.

No mistery here: iGPU runs at a much lower frequency (4-5 time slower than CPU cores) and Intel's 10nm node works just fine for this use case.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
5,847 (0.81/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
System Name Firelance.
Processor Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory 8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage 2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s) 3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Razer Pro Type Ultra
Software Windows 10 Professional x64
No mistery here: iGPU runs at a much lower frequency (4-5 time slower than CPU cores) and Intel's 10nm node works just fine for this use case.

Yup, IGP frequency on Skylake is 1.15GHz max. On Lakefield it's a mere 500MHz, although whether that's an artifact of 10nm being terrible or that chip's focus on low power vs performance (or both) is yet to be seen.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,821 (1.33/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5)
Video Card(s) INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2
Storage 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X
Display(s) 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q
Case Thermaltake Core P5
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W
Mouse Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE
Keyboard Corsair K100 RGB
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
Yup, IGP frequency on Skylake is 1.15GHz max. On Lakefield it's a mere 500MHz, although whether that's an artifact of 10nm being terrible or that chip's focus on low power vs performance (or both) is yet to be seen.
7W is a pretty heavy restriction.
 
Top