US Government Could Blacklist Chinese Chipmaker SMIC

[watzupken]

Your Xbox, Ps4 and most of your PC parts are made in china. Who will make all that if the US bans all Chinese electronic imports out of stupidity? American companies

This is true, but does not mean it will always have to stay this way. In the past, companies move production from whichever countries they originate to China because of significant savings. As a result, China become very good at manufacturing and also benefited from the influx of investments. It is going to be tough to move out of China, but I don't believe it is impossible. In fact, I think there exists a huge concentration risk as shown during early this year where they shut down due to COVID19, there's massive shortages everywhere. So with this learning, it makes sense to start looking for alternatives elsewhere.

 

[Flanker]

Not a problem, Taiwan can take back all that. Besides, my motherboard is already made in Taiwan #1, my CPU is made in the US, Taiwan and Malaysia, my DRAM and SSD are made in Taiwan, my graphics card is made in Taiwan. I guess that leaves a few metal bits and some fans.
China isn't needed for anything as such.
Besides, you have clearly not been paying attention, most of the manufacturers are already moving production to India, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and of course Taiwan already.
The Chinese companies are actually not the ones making any of those products, as those companies are mainly Taiwanese.

Foxconn - Taiwanese
Flex (Flextronics) - Singapore/USA
Pegatron - Taiwanse
Quanta - Taiwanese
Compal - Taiwanese
Wistron - Taiwanes
Inventec - Taiwanese
Lite-On - Taiwanese
Qisda - Taiwanese
Mitac - Taiwanese
Cal-Comp - Thai

So again, who needs China?


Too soon.

Don't know about others but from my personal experiences, Foxconn can't do shit without Chinese labor, sites in other countries had to be really simple components, but things like phones and laptops have proven to be disastrous outside China.

And fun fact about these Taiwanese businesses that operate in China. Chinese staff are generally treated like crap, get about 1/4 to 1/3 the pay of Taiwanese staff for being in the same role. I wasn't on the receiving end of that BS, but I couldn't stand seeing people treated like 3rd class citizens just for being born in a different place.

 

[Camm]

TSMC might be happiest of all about this considering the amount of IP theft it has endured limits SMIC's benefit from it.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Don't know about others but from my personal experiences, Foxconn can't do shit without Chinese labor, sites in other countries had to be really simple components, but things like phones and laptops have proven to be disastrous outside China.

And fun fact about these Taiwanese businesses that operate in China. Chinese staff are generally treated like crap, get about 1/4 to 1/3 the pay of Taiwanese staff for being in the same role. I wasn't on the receiving end of that BS, but I couldn't stand seeing people treated like 3rd class citizens just for being born in a different place.

Eh? Do you even know how many manufacturing plants they have all over the world?

Foxconn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They've been making iPhones in India for a few years already, together with Compal.
Foxconn, Wistron and Pegatron has just announced that they'll be investing more in India as well.

Taiwanese suppliers for Apple to invest US$900 million in India | Taiwan News | Sep. 29, 2020 14:26

www.taiwannews.com.tw

Yes, as of today, they still make most things in China, but things are changing, for many reasons, least not the current US stance on China, but also because these companies understood how vulnerable they are focusing so much of their production on China.
You also need to catch up with the times, labour in China is no longer cheap and in fact, most staff in western and southern China gets paid more than the equivalent person doing the same job in Taiwan. On top of that, a lot of factory workers in Taiwan are from the Philippines or Indonesia these days, as that's where Taiwan gets low cost labour from to do the assembly jobs. They get paid as you mention, a lot less than the Taiwanese doing the same jobs.

 

[Flanker]

Eh? Do you even know how many manufacturing plants they have all over the world?

Foxconn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They've been making iPhones in India for a few years already, together with Compal.
Foxconn, Wistron and Pegatron has just announced that they'll be investing more in India as well.

Taiwanese suppliers for Apple to invest US$900 million in India | Taiwan News | Sep. 29, 2020 14:26

www.taiwannews.com.tw

Yes, as of today, they still make most things in China, but things are changing, for many reasons, least not the current US stance on China, but also because these companies understood how vulnerable they are focusing so much of their production on China.
You also need to catch up with the times, labour in China is no longer cheap and in fact, most staff in western and southern China gets paid more than the equivalent person doing the same job in Taiwan. On top of that, a lot of factory workers in Taiwan are from the Philippines or Indonesia these days, as that's where Taiwan gets low cost labour from to do the assembly jobs. They get paid as you mention, a lot less than the Taiwanese doing the same jobs.

The India assembly lines had terrible yields is what I have been hearing. The most skilled labor are mostly in China is what I mean. I used to work there and know about their sites.
Yeah cost of labor is increasing, but there is a class system in Taiwanese businesses in China. People get paid differently judged by their nationality even if doing the same jobs. A former colleague of mine got 3 times the pay by leaving Foxconn and getting practically the same job at OFilm.

 

[TheLostSwede]

The India assembly lines had terrible yields is what I have been hearing. The most skilled labor are mostly in China is what I mean. I used to work there and know about their sites.
Yeah cost of labor is increasing, but there is a class system in Taiwanese businesses in China. People get paid differently judged by their nationality even if doing the same jobs. A former colleague of mine got 3 times the pay by leaving Foxconn and getting practically the same job at OFilm.

Are you surprised? So called "expats" i.e. white people that get sent abroad by their companies also gets a lot higher salary than locals.
As such, Taiwanese workers that are sent to China gets paid more there, as they're working abroad in a kind of "expat" capacity.
I loathe the term though, especially as if you're not white, you're apparently a migrant worker and not an expat...

Foxconn pays shit regardless. Terry was complaining that fresh university graduate engineers in Taiwan was asking for too much money and they shouldn't get paid more than about NT$23,000 a month, or roughly US$800.

 

[Flanker]

Are you surprised? So called "expats" i.e. white people that get sent abroad by their companies also gets a lot higher salary than locals.
As such, Taiwanese workers that are sent to China gets paid more there, as they're working abroad in a kind of "expat" capacity.
I loathe the term though, especially as if you're not white, you're apparently a migrant worker and not an expat...

Foxconn pays shit regardless. Terry was complaining that fresh university graduate engineers in Taiwan was asking for too much money and they shouldn't get paid more than about NT$23,000 a month, or roughly US$800.

Yeah sorry for the random rant, I just need to get it out of my system that how much Foxconn disgusted me. It wasn't just the pay but the whole discriminatory atmosphere. When we leave the factories, our bags are searched. If anything remotely relate to the product manufactured is found we get into trouble. Well, for me it would probably just be a verbal warning since I'm Taiwanese. For Chinese staff? They get taken into a little dark room. No one ever told me what happens inside, I just assume it's unpleasant.
I entered Foxconn as a graduate with a masters degree and got paid 50K NTD a month, being in China gives me around another 20~30K. It rounded out to about 15~16K CNY at the time. Whereas the hiring a similar graduate from China pays 5000 CNY plus overtime pay which are handed out base on their Taiwanese manager's mood. My former manager sometimes refuse to pay them for overtime to cut department cost, lovely eh? They could easily get 10K+ from a local Chinese business. Not surprising how Foxconn in China was the place to go "when no one else wants you."

Back to the topic of this thread, I guess a lot of Chinese nationals won't be sad about foreign manufacturing companies leaving either...

 

[kiriakost]

Update 28th September: The United States government has officially imposed sanctions on the Chinese chipmaker SMIC. The company is now under US sanctions and is placed on a trade blacklist.

Great news for Europe, when we will become rich and able to spent for RTX 3080 this will be faster clocked than what Americans will get instead in their market.