NVIDIA Reportedly Working on GeForce RTX 3080 Ti Graphics Card with 20 GB GDDR6X VRAM

[purecain]

Exactly, we're being forced to buy online due to covid and we have idiots using bots to buy what little stock there is, I'd of set my own bot up just to buy one for myself had i known it was going to be every single new product. This is going to have a terrible affect on the community. This would of been enough to put me off pc's all together when i was first starting. I cant stand dishonesty. Manufacturers should of made sure the public could get their products, we have shops using sister companies which basically prevent hardly any of us being able to buy at the msrp. If one shop had sold them at msrp no one would of been able to profit from scalped cards. That only works if people cant get them anywhere. It feels artificial, like this was planned and i'm sure it was. Call me paranoid.

 

[AusWolf]

Exactly, we're being forced to buy online due to covid and we have idiots using bots to buy what little stock there is, I'd of set my own bot up just to buy one for myself had i known it was going to be every single new product. This is going to have a terrible affect on the community. This would of been enough to put me off pc's all together when i was first starting. I cant stand dishonesty. Manufacturers should of made sure the public could get their products, we have shops using sister companies which basically prevent hardly any of us being able to buy at the msrp. If one shop had sold them at msrp no one would of been able to profit from scalped cards. That only works if people cant get them anywhere. It feels artificial, like this was planned and i'm sure it was. Call me paranoid.

I'm sure scalpers are part of the problem, but I also think they're only a small part of it. Interestingly, I never heard so much about scalping during any of the previous hardware launches.

Personally, I think the real problem is Samsung's 8 nm node not being able to produce a reasonable number of GPUs for nvidia and board partners. Random fact: there is not a single fully unlocked GPU die either in the current, or rumoured 30-series product stack anywhere. Why is that? Is nvidia making room for a later coming Super series? Maybe, but I think yields are so low that they basically can't produce fully functional dies at all, and even partially functional ones are short on supply - that's probably why we're hearing rumours about the large GA102 seeping down into 3070 Ti territory and the GA104 into 3060 Ti, or even 3060 levels (instead of introducing new, smaller dies as usual).

In short: scalping is only ever an issue when there is a pre-existent shortage of a certain product.

 

[purecain]

I'm just guttered, usually we would all be overclocking and benchmarking our new cards and others would be making their minds up based on our experiences. This is usually a lot of fun for our community. Lets pray for decent amounts of stock over the next month so we can at least get set up for xmas, although i have a feeling we will all still be hunting parts into February 2021.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Lets pray for decent amounts of stock over the next month

They are working on it. Shipments are incoming.

 

[Makaveli]

That's how it is in duopoly which was illegal not that long ago. We need working antitrust legislation ASAP.

Good luck with that let me know how it goes.

 

[ratirt]

Personally, I think the real problem is Samsung's 8 nm node not being able to produce a reasonable number of GPUs for nvidia and board partners. Random fact: there is not a single fully unlocked GPU die either in the current, or rumoured 30-series product stack anywhere. Why is that? Is nvidia making room for a later coming Super series? Maybe, but I think yields are so low that they basically can't produce fully functional dies at all, and even partially functional ones are short on supply - that's probably why we're hearing rumours about the large GA102 seeping down into 3070 Ti territory and the GA104 into 3060 Ti, or even 3060 levels (instead of introducing new, smaller dies as usual).

I don't think so. 8nm Samsung is 2 years old news. How is that holding back production I have no idea since the yields are good.
If it really was Samsung's node, and the yields would be low due to defects for the 3090 and 3080, You could salvage those to get decent number of 3070 GPUs and these have problems with stock as well. Problem is elsewhere.

 

[fynxer]

320bit mem bus must be fake news and Trump won the election if you only count his votes

Why 320bit mem bus? If people are going to pay +$300 they would want some upgrade to the mem bus like 352bit.

What ever! If I feel like Nvidia is screwing me I will jump to AMD

 

[AusWolf]

I don't think so. 8nm Samsung is 2 years old news. How is that holding back production I have no idea since the yields are good.
If it really was Samsung's node, and the yields would be low due to defects for the 3090 and 3080, You could salvage those to get decent number of 3070 GPUs and these have problems with stock as well. Problem is elsewhere.

My theory is that the originally planned 3090 and 3080 produced defects, that's why we have those awkward numbers of cuda cores in those GPUs, and basically no fully unlocked chip anywhere in the product stack. Even the 3070 uses a GPU with disabled parts, and I'm pretty sure there isn't so much difference between the performance of 46 and 48 SMs that would make any sense for nvidia to have plans with the unlocked chip in the future. Even the 3070 Ti rumours suggest a highly watered-down version of the GA102 instead of a full GA104. If it is financially beneficial to manufacture such a large chip and disable parts for a card several tiers below the 3090, I can only assume that something is awfully wrong with the node or the design (or both).

 

[ratirt]

My theory is that the originally planned 3090 and 3080 produced defects, that's why we have those awkward numbers of cuda cores in those GPUs, and basically no fully unlocked chip anywhere in the product stack. Even the 3070 uses a GPU with disabled parts, and I'm pretty sure there isn't so much difference between the performance of 46 and 48 SMs that would make any sense for nvidia to have plans with the unlocked chip in the future. Even the 3070 Ti rumours suggest a highly watered-down version of the GA102 instead of a full GA104. If it is financially beneficial to manufacture such a large chip and disable parts for a card several tiers below the 3090, I can only assume that something is awfully wrong with the node or the design (or both).

Sure but you need to realize that the bigger the chip is, the harder it is to make it. Of course there will be defects and you can use that chip as a lower tier. The fact that NV chips are quite big is no fantasy and that would contribute to defective chips. So the quantity might not be as impressive as a smaller chip but that's the way it is. The node is matured and it does well with all the improvements it had. (To be clear it is 10nm Samsung improved becoming 8nm) So I don't think the problem is the node. Maybe memory if you consider 3080 and 3090.
The other thing is, maybe NV was rushing the release so bad, they didnt have the stock to begin with. Maybe these cards were going to be released later not August but much later. They didnt have the stock but wanted to release it before AMD. Hard to tell but the node problem or yields problem (they are there due to large chips) is not convincing me.

 

[r9]

What a ground breaking news ... for the two people that will be able to buy it.

 

[londiste]

My theory is that the originally planned 3090 and 3080 produced defects, that's why we have those awkward numbers of cuda cores in those GPUs, and basically no fully unlocked chip anywhere in the product stack. Even the 3070 uses a GPU with disabled parts, and I'm pretty sure there isn't so much difference between the performance of 46 and 48 SMs that would make any sense for nvidia to have plans with the unlocked chip in the future. Even the 3070 Ti rumours suggest a highly watered-down version of the GA102 instead of a full GA104. If it is financially beneficial to manufacture such a large chip and disable parts for a card several tiers below the 3090, I can only assume that something is awfully wrong with the node or the design (or both).

Has Big Navi die size been confirmed?
Rumored 536mm² is only 15% smaller than Nvidia's 628mm². TSMC N7 is a smaller, newer and more complex node compared to Samsung's 8N.

 

[Zach_01]

But, lets for arguments say you're totally right and they actually "wipe the floor" product vs product, by basically offering what is at best a respectable price to performance benefit, with some extra placebo VRAM and a minor perf;watt advantage. Nvidia adjust prices, actually officially announces SKU's that fit the gaps, and life goes on with both happily selling GPU's to happy consumers.

Its not placebo... they need it for SmartAccessMemory to increase performance even higher for their own platform. How good is it or not, or how this will be exploited by game devs in future is yet to be seen.

 

[geogan]

Price drop for the 3090 would have been the way to go but since NV is releasing 3080 TI (slightly different spec) is to make the card cheaper which means price drop for the 3090 is not an option. Otherwise NV would have done it. This decision, is based on (probably), NV would lose money since it costs more to make the 3090 than sell it for $1k. $500 difference in price is massive for a product that performs equally.

Where the hell did you get that idea from? I don't know why uninformed people think this. How do people not realise that 3080/3090 cards are more or less identical down to atomic levels of similarity.

It costs exactly the same to make a 3090 GPU die as it does a 3080 GPU die - they are the SAME THING - only difference is the 3080 has a few broken CUs in GPU die so they disabled them and sell it for less.

If they are able to make and sell 3080 for 800 PROFITABLY then they DEFINITELY could make the 3090 and sell it profitably for 800 too. Its just they don't have to - there are enough idiots around who will gladly give them another 700 in profit for the same thing.

 

[londiste]

3090 includes more than just the die, leaving the validity of binning as price increase factor aside. RTX3090 uses 14 more RAM chips - even for GDDR6 additional 14 RAM chips would be $150 if not more, GDDR6X is undoubtedly more expensive - most of the additional RAM chips are on the opposing side of PCB - with increased power consumption of GDDR6X it means there needs to be cooling for some 20-30W or more (I don't think I have ever seen backplates with heatpipes before RTX3090). Coolers and VRMs seem to also be more substantial for RTX3090s.

There is also a marketing or PR angle to this. The people who have bought RTX3090 would be disappointed or angry if the same card was sold for 30% less so soon after release. So a new SKU is slightly worse than RTX3090 and current RTX3090 owners can use that small bit to make them feel better.

 

[im.thatoneguy]

More fool you then. The 3090 doesn't come with the production-specific drivers that would make it that good outside of gaming. (nor will a 3080ti)
All that will come with the £3000 Titan variant.

NVIDIA DRIVERS NVIDIA Studio Driver

SUPPORTED PRODUCTS

NVIDIA TITAN Series: NVIDIA TITAN RTX, NVIDIA TITAN V, NVIDIA TITAN Xp, NVIDIA TITAN X (Pascal) GeForce RTX 30 Series: GeForce RTX 3090, GeForce RTX 3080 GeForce RTX 20 Series: GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2080, GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2070, GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2060 GeForce 16 Series: GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER, GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER, GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, GeForce GTX 1660, GeForce GTX 1650 GeForce 10 Series: GeForce GTX 1080 Ti, GeForce GTX 1080, GeForce GTX 1070 Ti, GeForce GTX 1070, GeForce GTX 1060, GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, GeForce GTX 1050

 

[ratirt]

Where the hell did you get that idea from? I don't know why uninformed people think this. How do people not realise that 3080/3090 cards are more or less identical down to atomic levels of similarity.

It costs exactly the same to make a 3090 GPU die as it does a 3080 GPU die - they are the SAME THING - only difference is the 3080 has a few broken CUs in GPU die so they disabled them and sell it for less.

If they are able to make and sell 3080 for 800 PROFITABLY then they DEFINITELY could make the 3090 and sell it profitably for 800 too. Its just they don't have to - there are enough idiots around who will gladly give them another 700 in profit for the same thing.

Because you have a handful of these 3090 and these are being priced accordingly. If you get a wafer and try to make only 3090's you will get few of them per wafer. All the chips with defects will be salvaged as 3070 and 3080. So yeah, the price for the 3090 is high because of it since it is the top-notch silicon binned and you have RAM as well. They are same gen but they are not the same. You should get a closer look to wafers etc. These costs a lot of cash and profits must be acquired across the wafer. With few 3090 per wafer, the price will be high and they would not lower the price because the salvaged chips used for 3070 and 3080 with lower price tags on them, may not make that profitable in a longer run