80 Plus Hikes its Testing and Licensing Fees, Could Affect Prices of Low-Volume PSU Models

[Countryside]

Because they choose to make a high quality one with high efficiency. If one chooses to make a low quality PC killing high efficient PSU, there is nothing that stops them. Don't forget we already had bad performing 80PLUS Platinum PSU's based on FSP Aurum 92+ design. But much worse is also easy possible. Because there simply isn't a correlation.

Like i said i don't doubt that there are exceptions out there.

The only connection is it's harder to meet 80 Plus certification levels with crap components across the board.

True indeed but for some reason some have hard time understanding this.

Not a lot of 80 Plus certificates on them either.

You don't say they should start butting stickers saying unrated on them

 

[-The_Mask-]

True indeed but for some reason some have hard time understanding this.

It simply isn't true...

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This is for example a high efficient PSU build with some lower quality components. But if you wish, it can even be downgraded much more.

The design it self is modern, it is based on a LLC resonant converter design with SR and DC-DC and the layout looks very clean. However many low quality components are used, that's why it died.

 

[Aquinus]

Exactly, its becoming clearer that the higher efficiency ratings don't really matter for most and the label is never a real indicator of 'quality' which is what it represents in the minds of many.

This is fine. PSUs are hit or miss anyway you always gotta check what you get. I'm all for things that inspire customer due diligence, and the label was shortcut for it, but not a very good one.

I think the real question is will this result in more sub-par PSUs, not if the consumer really cares if the 80+ sticker is on the box. What are the side effects of not having a certification like 80+? I think that's a harder question to answer. Maybe everything will be fine, but I think (and this is entirely opinion,) that we'll see more shoddy PSUs as a result. A lot of companies will do some crazy things to save a buck and 80+ at least partially defends against that.

Let me ask you another question. Without hearing about this article, would you buy a PSU without any 80+ certification? I wouldn't.

 

[-The_Mask-]

What are the side effects of not having a certification like 80+? I think that's a harder question to answer.

jonnyGURU already answered that question years ago. The first Corsair CX series from CWT were non 80PLUS, when Corsair changed a couple of components so that it could do 80PLUS the second generation CX from CWT with 80PLUS sold a lot better.

 

[Aquinus]

jonnyGURU already answered that question years ago. The first Corsair CX series from CWT were non 80PLUS, when Corsair changed a couple of components so that it could do 80PLUS the second generation CX from CWT with 80PLUS sold a lot better.

That could also be the CX brand slowly gaining steam over time as well. Correlation doesn't always mean causation, but it's a good point to consider. If changing the components also resulted in a better PSU for a similar price, that could also be a reason why. I say it's hard to answer because there are a lot of variables.

 

[Vayra86]

I think the real question is will this result in more sub-par PSUs, not if the consumer really cares if the 80+ sticker is on the box. What are the side effects of not having a certification like 80+? I think that's a harder question to answer. Maybe everything will be fine, but I think (and this is entirely opinion,) that we'll see more shoddy PSUs as a result. A lot of companies will do some crazy things to save a buck and 80+ at least partially defends against that.

Let me ask you another question. Without hearing about this article, would you buy a PSU without any 80+ certification? I wouldn't.

I think its going to be a long path towards a market without 80 plus stickers yes. There will be more PSUs without stickers and a part of them will be crap. Another part of them will be good. Customers will find out the hard way.

In that sense it inspires due diligence, and it takes years before a new 'norm' lands in the consumer world about how to go about certain purchases. So yeah, things will take a turn for the worse before they'll get better. A number of companies will be paying the increased fee, too - but they will have smaller margins and that will inspire cost cutting as well.

Its just a short wait for the first high quality, high efficiency PSU that gets marketed as 'We don't need that sticker, and we're still better'. Once that gains traction... The fact is, you don't pay a licensing fee, so for smaller volume products that's a pretty big thing.

 

[Aquinus]

Its just a short wait for the first high quality, high efficiency PSU that gets marketed as 'We don't need that sticker, and we're still better'. Once that gains traction...

I think that's dead on. This is a must to overcome the mentality that the sticker means something. So long as high quality PSUs go for the certifications, I think it'll be mostly the case that the shoddy PSUs will be the ones without the sticker.

 

[Countryside]

I think that's dead on. This is a must to overcome the mentality that the sticker means something. So long as high quality PSUs go for the certifications, I think it'll be mostly the case that the shoddy PSUs will be the ones without the sticker.

Life would be so much easier if a sticker is a factual validation but it isnt maybe in the bright future it will be.

 

[Vayra86]

Life would be so much easier if a sticker is a factual validation but it isnt maybe in the bright future it will be.

It really is though isn't it? Its just that the scope of the sticker's validations is too limited these days. Efficiency is the easy part. Low ripple however...

 

[bug]

I think the real question is will this result in more sub-par PSUs, not if the consumer really cares if the 80+ sticker is on the box. What are the side effects of not having a certification like 80+? I think that's a harder question to answer. Maybe everything will be fine, but I think (and this is entirely opinion,) that we'll see more shoddy PSUs as a result. A lot of companies will do some crazy things to save a buck and 80+ at least partially defends against that.

Let me ask you another question. Without hearing about this article, would you buy a PSU without any 80+ certification? I wouldn't.

I couldn't have said it better.
80 Plus is no different from any other certification: you have to understand what it's about, it can be gamed, but it's there to filter out at least the worst offenders. It sets a bar for everyone, making it easier to find a good product.

It really is though isn't it? Its just that the scope of the sticker's validations is too limited these days. Efficiency is the easy part. Low ripple however...

Well, efficiency was the problem to fix when 80 Plus started. PSUs were wasting like 50% energy back then. You need other problem taking care of, you need a different certification.

Ideally you's want ISO to come up with a series of specs for PSUs to adhere to. But until then, I'd rather have 80 Plus around, rather than having to rely on brand names.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

There isn't any logic in it. It's just random. I've asked many times the logic after a random PSU place. They never could give an answer.

who is they? and what logic are you looking at?

 

[-The_Mask-]

who is they?

LukeSavenije for the last tierlist and LienusLateTips before that, as they are the makers of those tierlists.

and what logic are you looking at?

Logic like; rating a better PSU higher.

Just take a couple of random PSU's and ask them yourself.

 

[bug]

LukeSavenije for the last tierlist and LienusLateTips before that, as they are the makers of those tierlists.

Logic like; rating a better PSU higher.

Just take a couple of random PSU's and ask them yourself.

One tiny problem with that: how do you define the better PSU? Say one has more stable voltage and the other has more stable current.

 

[-The_Mask-]

Your question is wrong.

 

[R-T-B]

Almost all brands that sold many different PSU's over the years have done it at some point. Even brands like Corsair and EVGA. Just look it up, there is no 80PLUS Bronze or Gold certificate for the EVGA SuperNOVA B1 and G1 series. By Corsair there where some TX PSU's which weren't certified after they switched from manufacturer. It wasn't that these PSU's weren't able to reach the 80PLUS certificate, it was just simple cost cutting.

And that changes my point how? It's still technically illegal, but it's a case of "good luck pursuing that in a Chinese court"

And for your examples, I'm sure you are aware of this but they are rebadges of Superflower platforms (I think?) that did get a cert separately. I don't know where that falls but it's not quite the same as "slap a label on it"

Your question is wrong.

This should not be marked low quality. If you have an understanding of Ohm's law, it is wrong. "More stable voltage" sure but stable current isn't a thing. It gives what is asked.

There are tons of devices from well-known brands that have GPL violations. It's not just "China"-thing.

The code repos that you need to pursue in court though are almost always in the far east. Sorry for stereotyping it to just China, the point was "hard to reach via the courts"

 

[-The_Mask-]

And that changes my point how? It's still technically illegal, but it's a case of "good luck pursuing that in a Chinese court"

What does it have to do a Chinese court? Corsair and EVGA are both from the USA. My point is that it isn't something only some crappy Chinese brands do, almost everyone has done it.

And for your examples, I'm sure you are aware of this but they are rebadges of Superflower platforms (I think?) that did get a cert separately. I don't know where that falls but it's not quite the same as "slap a label on it"

Those EVGA's are both build by FSP. If you have the same PSU as the OEM model, you can say that. Then 80PLUS doesn't test your sample, but you still have to pay for the 80PLUS badge, only a lot less.

This should not be marked low quality. If you have an understanding of Ohm's law, it is wrong. "More stable voltage" sure but stable current isn't a thing. It gives what is asked.

Yeah it's said to see that people don't even have the utter basic knowledge about electronics. Ohm's law is actually one of the first things you will learn about electric stuff. If you don't even understand Ohm's law, you don't understand anything at all about electric stuff.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

LukeSavenije for the last tierlist and LienusLateTips before that, as they are the makers of those tierlists.

Logic like; rating a better PSU higher.

Just take a couple of random PSU's and ask them yourself.

TBH, it sounds like you were butthurt by such a tier list in the past, thats fine I get it. As I said the lists are not set in stone, its a quick reference guide and those seeking new PSUs should still do research.

You still have not explained the logic behind your logic, meh NVM its moot.

EDIT--
From Princess Luna on that thread there:

We have also tried to update the list and decided to keep it simple and straight forwards just for people to have a quick reference to check, as always anyone looking to purchase a brand new PSU is always advised to make their own proper individual threads for the best assistance possible from our community.

as in do your own research.

 

[R-T-B]

What does it have to do a Chinese court? Corsair and EVGA are both from the USA.

Who makes the original product? That's who you have to chase.

And it isn't exclusively China, as someone pointed out. Several OEMs have done it but none based anywhere with a western patent court system.

Those EVGA's are both build by FSP.

Taiwanese based, it would seem. Different country (well, at least kinda) with a similar problem.

 

[-The_Mask-]

TBH, it sounds like you were butthurt by such a tier list in the past, thats fine I get it.

The first time I saw such a list I indeed almost cried how bad it was. It was totally random and absolutely not helpful at all. But a lot of people did used it and made bad choices because of that. I've seen many people use it as a quick reference, didn't help them in the right direction.

You sure you aren't the one that's hurt? Because you thought it was actually good? And if you don't believe me just ask jonnyGURU, I'm sure he will give you his opinion.

Who makes the original product? That's who you have to chase.

Nope, they have nothing to do with the 80PLUS certification. If you want a 80PLUS certification on your product you need to send it to them and pay, simple as that.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

Because you thought it was actually good?

Having a quick reference quide for components is not always a bad thing. You seem to want to discredit that list no matter what anyone else says. If you really things its that bed, you and your partner should do something about it, but whining about it on other forums does nothing for your campaign. It is your opinion. You have yours, I have mine, lets agree to disagree.

 

[-The_Mask-]

I rather explain to people their mistakes. So that the next time they help people they actually help them instead of tell them thinks that aren't actually helping.

 

[Aquinus]

I rather explain to people their mistakes. So that the next time they help people they actually help them instead of tell them thinks that aren't actually helping.

Wow. That's kind of arrogant to assume that you're opinion is right and other's opinions are wrong and to proceed to explain to people why that's the case. What's not helping is what you're doing. I don't agree with your opinions and I think you have a unique perspective that most people don't have. I don't think that's a good representation of the market buying PSUs, although you're free to disagree with me. Simply put, just because your opinion is different from someone else's doesn't make them wrong and it doesn't make you right.

 

[-The_Mask-]

It's actually not just my opinion. I actually haven't seen anyone with PSU knowledge with a different opinion. I do have seen a lot of people just say the same thing. Some people are only really ignorant and rather post bs then admit they are wrong. Which is a huge problem on this forum. Some people should know that there is no such thing as alternative facts.

 

[Aquinus]

It's actually not just my opinion. I actually haven't seen anyone with PSU knowledge with a different opinion. I do have seen a lot of people just say the same thing. Some people are only really ignorant and rather post bs then admit they are wrong. Which is a huge problem on this forum. Some people should know that there is no such thing as alternative facts.

I think you need to look in the mirror. You haven't really said anything to prove anyone wrong other than, well saying just that. You've made claims and have basically said, "look at YouTube personalities." Maybe it's you who who needs to stop posting BS, do some research, and realize when they are wrong. The problem isn't the forum, the problem is you.

 

[-The_Mask-]

If you did even a small bit of research, you would see that I provided a lot of prove. Even better you would find that they also used my reviews as a source. But like many other reviewers that saw the tier list I also totally didn't agree with that list. It only showed that the writers of the tier list didn't understand the reviews.