Cyberpunk 2077 Does Not Leverage SMT on AMD Ryzen, Lower Core-Count Variants take a Bigger Hit, Proof Included

john_ · Dec 14, 2020

So, we have to believe that professional programmers that work at a multi billion company ( 29 billions market value ) and who can bring a world to life, live under a rock and don't know that AMD is producing a new line of CPUs that does not use the Bulldozer architecture?

Sure. We believe it. Why not?

authorized · Dec 14, 2020

FreedomEclipse said:
Rumour has it that the game wasnt ready for prime time but the shareholders wouldnt allow them to delay the game again...

Probably, it's been said in the past that CDPR's shareholders are understanding but obviously there's a line, an investment can't be in development forever and it's likely they've lost their patience. Still, probably wasn't the best move, looking at how much the stock price fell.

Vayra86 said:
AMD wants the mindshare they better start working for it. DXR is a similar major miss. I mean wtf. You have RT capable hardware. And if Green blocks your path, expose it and put CDPR and Nvidia to shame. I mean... you're either in business or in kindergarten.

I guess they were too focused on consoles and Godfall. They are supposedly only now working with CDPR on implementing their RT.

Vayra86 · Dec 14, 2020

authorized said:
I guess they were too focused on consoles and Godfall. They are supposedly only now working with CDPR on implementing their RT.

Not at all, Godfall is utterly shite, if they put time into that it was wasted to begin with. The consoles... if they focused on that, why not on Cyberpunk and the RT in it? Last I checked they are also responsible for the PS4, not just the PS5 and MS equivalents. That also answers perhaps why CDPR had no urge to invest time - the PS4 runs on Jaguar cores, not Zen. - and Zen is notably faster.

So IF they even focused on anything, they were doing it on the wrong things. Sorry but I'm not buying that. Note the trend: this is not new to AMD, it happens every single time.

Its called negligence and/or lack of investment. And its strange because for Ryzen it somehow seemed they changed that to 'invested'... just not for gaming. All Zen-related fixes were gaming related in a way - CCX latency for example is a design choice that completely is not gaming oriented. There is a disconnect in AMD with the hardware they make and what target audiences are going to do with it, and how AMD can leverage that.

SaLaDiN666 · Dec 14, 2020

windwhirl said:
There were some comments of Intel's Compiler being involved in these shenanigans, again.

Can't help but think they're onto something.

Just stop thinking, since you are not very good at it.

FreedomEclipse · Dec 14, 2020

authorized said:
Probably, it's been said in the past that CDPR's shareholders are understanding but obviously there's a line, an investment can't be in development forever and it's likely they've lost their patience. Still, probably wasn't the best move, looking at how much the stock price fell.

Then again. The hype for this game has been insane and a lot of other developers have delayed their releases rather than go head to head with CP2077 so im sure that they pushed for release because the skies were clear, free from any competition and this was the best time to sell a tonne of copies and they were right -- it did sell a tonne of copies. I dont know of or remember any other game that made back its development money so quickly after its release... Maybe some of the Mass Effect games?? DayZ?? Fallout76??

Chomiq · Dec 14, 2020

authorized said:
Probably, it's been said in the past that CDPR's shareholders are understanding but obviously there's a line, an investment can't be in development forever and it's likely they've lost their patience. Still, probably wasn't the best move, looking at how much the stock price fell.

CDPR stock was overvalued, that's it. Stock analysis should be left to experts and not some randoms on forums/twitter/reddit whatever.

Vya Domus · Dec 14, 2020

Chomiq said:
Stock analysis should be left to experts and not some randoms on forums/twitter/reddit whatever.

Believe or not but stocks these days change also based on random people on forums/twitter/reddit, that being said most "experts" are completely out of touch, especially when it's about companies who make products that they know nothing about. As a forum dweller I knew their stock was going to plummet almost a year back, simply because I knew what those delays actually meant and that the game will turn out to be a disappointment to many.

Chomiq · Dec 14, 2020

Vya Domus said:
Believe or not but stocks these days change also based on random people on forums/twitter/reddit, that being said most "experts" are completely out of touch.

I'm not talking about this. I'm saying that people take the headline saying "CDPR stock drops to xxx" and say "Game is buggy, no wonder" without understanding that the stock would drop significantly no matter what because people would dump their stock "just in case" to make as much as possible out of their investment on release date. Just like people dumped their stock the time last delay was announced.

5 year analysis from Polish stock exchange (price in PLN):

You could probably match each drop in stock value with delay announcements.

Vya Domus · Dec 14, 2020

Chomiq said:
would drop significantly no matter what because people would dump their stock "just in case" to make as much as possible out of their investment on release date.

It doesn't quite work like that, they'd only do that if they knew with certainty that the product will under perform. Look at other companies like Apple, their stock never drops to such and extent because investors know that their products are almost universally well received every year.

Chomiq · Dec 14, 2020

Vya Domus said:
It doesn't quite work like that, they'd only do that if they knew with certainty that the product will under perform. Look at other companies like Apple, their stock never drops to such and extent because investors know that their products are almost universally well received every year.

Now you get it why I said that stock market analysis should be left to experts? It's a pointless discussion from "gamer's" perspective.

LabRat 891 · Dec 14, 2020

Seems the commentary and concerns I'd read about the change(s) in staffing on the dev team since The Witcher 3 were well founded. Also, was taken aback to find out the Reviewer's copy of CP'77 had Denuvo even though CDPR had been previously very anti-DRM.

authorized · Dec 14, 2020

I'm certainly no expert, just a forum dweller I guess, but wouldn't those people sell before release, not after when the price is already going down?
Anyway, it's often said that nobody can consistently predict the stock market and expert are wrong all the time too.

Vayra86 said:
Its called negligence and/or lack of investment. And its strange because for Ryzen it somehow seemed they changed that to 'invested'... just not for gaming. All Zen-related fixes were gaming related in a way - CCX latency for example is a design choice that completely is not gaming oriented. There is a disconnect in AMD with the hardware they make and what target audiences are going to do with it, and how AMD can leverage that.

Ryzen is a success story though, seems like they knew what they were doing if they couldn't compete with Intel's IPC initially. Zen and Zen+ offered good productivity with more cores (which was also good for streaming afaik) and a cheap option for budget gaming, and with Zen 2 and especially 3 they caught up to Intel in games too.

LabRat 891 said:
Also, was taken aback to find out the Reviewer's copy of CP'77 had Denuvo even though CDPR had been previously very anti-DRM.

Why would that bother you when consumer copy doesn't have it?

Vayra86 · Dec 14, 2020

authorized said:
Ryzen is a success story though, seems like they knew what they were doing if they couldn't compete with Intel's IPC initially. Zen and Zen+ offered good productivity with more cores (which was also good for streaming afaik) and a cheap option for budget gaming, and with Zen 2 and especially 3 they caught up to Intel in games too.

Oh yeah absolutely! But let's replay the Ryzen tape from the first release with regards to gaming performance. Ryzen 1 was not good - just simply not. It was adequate at best. The focus clearly wasn't there, only the last few releases were on point in that sense as people got better control of the CCX and core allocation.

W1zzard · Dec 14, 2020

LabRat 891 said:
was taken aback to find out the Reviewer's copy of CP'77 had Denuvo even though CDPR had been previously very anti-DRM.

that's only to avoid leaks. so reviewers can pass it along to their buddies to play, who then leak it to piratebay

authorized · Dec 14, 2020

Vayra86 said:
Oh yeah absolutely! But let's replay the Ryzen tape from the first release with regards to gaming performance. Ryzen 1 was not good - just simply not. It was adequate at best. The focus clearly wasn't there, only the last few releases were on point in that sense as people got better control of the CCX and core allocation.

It was adequate and cheap, and that second part made it a viable option.
I mean, I have no idea if it was not their focus, or if they just weren't able to compete on that front back then.
Maybe it was just a matter of priorities, and I can see no reason to fault them and call that a mistake, as they did get enough adopters to succeed.
Or maybe it really took those 3-4 years of RnD to match Intel at gaming despite their efforts.

Yeah, they keep having blunders, some of them pretty stupid, but I don't see any big failings (or too many smaller ones) with the Ryzen line.

Chrispy_ · Dec 14, 2020

I haven't had time to read up on this yet, but is it related to the old core-parking fix for Zen1 which improved performance back in the old Windows 10 scheduler days?

Jeager · Dec 14, 2020

Chrispy_ said:
I haven't had time to read up on this yet, but is it related to the old core-parking fix for Zen1 which improved performance back in the old Windows 10 scheduler days?

I don't think so it's more about how the CPU is detected (with physical/logical core)
The trick isnt placebo on a overclocked 1600X/1080@1440p

Makaveli · Dec 14, 2020

FreedomEclipse said:
Rumour has it that the game wasnt ready for prime time but the shareholders wouldnt allow them to delay the game again...

Either way, all the other stories seems to point to bad management

Ironic because those shareholders would be responsible for the share price dropping.

FreedomEclipse · Dec 14, 2020

Makaveli said:
Ironic because those shareholders would be responsible for the share price dropping.

the same folks were probably the ones to send the staff death threats when the studio announced it would be delayed a second time.

matar · Dec 15, 2020

This game is trash 8 years and not even RTX 3090 can run it @ 4K 60fps. and that's with out RTX. on .
currently I have a GTX 1080 with a G-SYNC 1080p monitor and wont even try it and no regrets, as i am not interested in this game i was going to try it but after i read the reviews how sucks performance NO thanks...
Unlike Crysis at the time i bought 3 8800GTX in 3 way SLi just to play it and was happy because the game at that time was 10 years ahead of its time.

Athlonite · Dec 15, 2020

AMDs technical dev support is rather like a good looking single guy at a pub perving at all the hotties thinking damn I could smash that 9 times on a sunday then going home to jerk off in a sock or worse taking the drunk fattatoe in the corner home and shashin that!

No DXR for Radeon 6000 series hold the phone why weren't they in there the same time nVidia were
No SMT on Ryzen CPU's yeah ok it's an easy self applied fix that should have been done before release by CDPR
No complete Key remapping. Did CDPR not learn from their mistakes same shit different game ( Witcher 3 which was eventually fixed) thank dog for the modding community who've already fixed it mostly
No QA testing well if there was it was very minimal aka does it run yes move on then
Poor memory allocation for PC's with much better resources available over consoles to offer the game engine but no lets just give them all the exact same amount also a easy self fix
Poor AI no real interactivity outside of the mission you're on
Bad Cops that blip in shoot you dead or do naff all if you hide for 10 seconds
Driving using KB is atrocious its either all or nothing and the dumb AI npc's that walk out in front of you LOL bye mofo squish
BUGS up the wazoo
CTD's up the wazoo

this all leads to a very piss poor excuse for an AAA game where the story is great the city is astounding but it's let down by gaming breaking crap that shouldn't have happened in a supposedly "GOLD" release I'm ashamed to say I spent $100NZD on this game

newtekie1 · Dec 15, 2020

john_ said:
So, we have to believe that professional programmers that work at a multi billion company ( 29 billions market value ) and who can bring a world to life, live under a rock and don't know that AMD is producing a new line of CPUs that does not use the Bulldozer architecture?

Sure. We believe it. Why not?

Obviously they were aware the new CPUs existed. What they didn't seem to know was that the API put out by AMD to detect and properly use AMD processors had been discontinued and replaced with a different tool.

Remember this game is using the same base engine as The Witcher 3, which came out 5 years ago.

My question though is, does it really make a big enough difference to matter. Its my understanding that the GPU is the big thing holding people back in this game. The tests I see from other sites show a 3600x paired with a 3090. Yeah, there might be a noticeable difference there. But no one is pairing a 3090 with a 3600X.

xenocide · Dec 15, 2020

newtekie1 said:
My question though is, does it really make a big enough difference to matter. Its my understanding that the GPU is the big thing holding people back in this game. The tests I see from other sites show a 3600x paired with a 3090. Yeah, there might be a noticeable difference there. But no one is pairing a 3090 with a 3600X.

Probably not, but when you're running the game at 50-60fps, a few frames here and there can make a huge difference. The original Reddit post about it was generally a difference of less than 10 fps with a 3090--we're talking a difference of 118fps vs. 120fps and stuff like that. People are just looking for anything that can boost performance.

Athlonite · Dec 15, 2020

newtekie1 said:
My question though is, does it really make a big enough difference to matter.

I got an extra 10~15fps using all my cores on an R7 3700X and RX5700

DeathtoGnomes · Dec 15, 2020

W1zzard said:
Either that, or nobody noticed it because Ryzens have higher core counts

Whats the chance this was intentional and meant for console versions ?

System Name	3 desktop systems: Gaming / Internet / HTPC
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Benchmark Scores	ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

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Keyboard	Wooting Two HE

Cyberpunk 2077 Does Not Leverage SMT on AMD Ryzen, Lower Core-Count Variants take a Bigger Hit, Proof Included

john_

authorized

Vayra86

SaLaDiN666

FreedomEclipse

~Technological Technocrat~

Chomiq

Vya Domus

Chomiq

Vya Domus

Chomiq

LabRat 891

authorized

Vayra86

W1zzard

Administrator

authorized

Chrispy_

Jeager

Makaveli

FreedomEclipse

~Technological Technocrat~

matar

Athlonite

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder

xenocide

Athlonite

DeathtoGnomes

System Name	Good enough
Processor	AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
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VR HMD	Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
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Benchmark Scores	https://www.youtube.com/user/matttttar/videos

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Mouse	Logitech G502 Proteus Core Wired
Keyboard	Logitech G915 Wireless
Software	Windows 11 X64 PRO (build 23H2)
Benchmark Scores	it sucks even more less now ;)

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Benchmark Scores	https://i.imgur.com/aoz3vWY.jpg?2