EK at CES 2021: Active Backplate, New Torque Fittings, Concept Cases!

[ThrashZone]

I mean, the only way to avoid milling marks like those is essentially to polish the metal after machining. Which, considering it has zero effect on cooling, is just unnecessary work and thus an unnecessary increase in production costs. Why bother?

Hi,
Just slop in the cnc machine or object being machined is not stationary enough or both.

 

[thesmokingman]

I mean, the only way to avoid milling marks like those is essentially to polish the metal after machining. Which, considering it has zero effect on cooling, is just unnecessary work and thus an unnecessary increase in production costs. Why bother?

No you don't polish it. You just change your tooling on a regular schedule. The marks are left behind from worn tooling usually. And you can also mill in specific paths to reduce marks. You can even hide the tooling marks while milling. All of this they don't do and the problem is they keep jacking up the prices while crap like this becomes ubiquitous.

 

[Valantar]

No you don't polish it. You just change your tooling on a regular schedule. The marks are left behind from worn tooling usually. And you can also mill in specific paths to reduce marks. You can even hide the tooling marks while milling. All of this they don't do and the problem is they keep jacking up the prices while crap like this becomes ubiquitous.

Their milling paths are no doubt optimized for speed (i.e. production volume), and changing out tooling before it wears out to the point of no longer meeting production tolerances is just advocating wastefulness (=cost increases, even if marginal). So, for the sake of a part that is never seen outside of cleaning your water block, you would advocate lower production volumes and higher prices. Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me. Water cooling gear is already expensive enough.

Hi,
Just slop in the cnc machine or object being machined is not stationary enough or both.

The scale of those imperfections is likely a few micrometers, so it might not be realistic for production of the scale of EK (relatively big, but not true mass production) to tune things to this degree. And as long as it doesn't harm performance or affect yields, why bother putting time and money into fixing it?

The old aphorism of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is quite applicable here.

 

[ThrashZone]

Spoiler: Reply to someone else

Their milling paths are no doubt optimized for speed (i.e. production volume), and changing out tooling before it wears out to the point of no longer meeting production tolerances is just advocating wastefulness (=cost increases, even if marginal). So, for the sake of a part that is never seen outside of cleaning your water block, you would advocate lower production volumes and higher prices. Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me. Water cooling gear is already expensive enough.

The scale of those imperfections is likely a few micrometers, so it might not be realistic for production of the scale of EK (relatively big, but not true mass production) to tune things to this degree. And as long as it doesn't harm performance or affect yields, why bother putting time and money into fixing it?

The old aphorism of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is quite applicable here.

Hi,
Would you hold the same view if you received something milled like this or is this also perfectly fine ?

 

[Valantar]

Hi,
Would you hold the same view if you received something milled like this or is this also perfectly fine ?

Obviously not. But then there's quite a difference between a non-functional part (majority of the copper in a water block) having minor, invisible cosmetic issues, and the core functional part (microfins) having functional issues like that. Whatever that was that you posted, it should never have passed QC.

That, my friend, is what we call a false equivalence.

 

[thesmokingman]

Obviously not. But then there's quite a difference between a non-functional part (majority of the copper in a water block) having minor, invisible cosmetic issues, and the core functional part (microfins) having functional issues like that. Whatever that was that you posted, it should never have passed QC.

That, my friend, is what we call a false equivalence.

No, that's just you making excuses.

Their milling paths are no doubt optimized for speed (i.e. production volume), and changing out tooling before it wears out to the point of no longer meeting production tolerances is just advocating wastefulness (=cost increases, even if marginal). So, for the sake of a part that is never seen outside of cleaning your water block, you would advocate lower production volumes and higher prices. Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me. Water cooling gear is already expensive enough.

The scale of those imperfections is likely a few micrometers, so it might not be realistic for production of the scale of EK (relatively big, but not true mass production) to tune things to this degree. And as long as it doesn't harm performance or affect yields, why bother putting time and money into fixing it?

The old aphorism of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is quite applicable here.

Wastefulness? Like I could give a shit how much material waste they create that is recycled anyways. You pay for craftsmanship not reduction in shavings.

It's incredible that anyone can defend this crap. Bylski has better milling than EK lmao.

 

[Valantar]

No, that's just you making excuses.


Wastefulness? Like I could give a shit how much material waste they create that is recycled anyways. You pay for craftsmanship not reduction in shavings.

It's incredible that anyone can defend this crap. Bylski has better milling than EK lmao.

Making excuses? Lolwut? So you're actually arguing that a purely cosmetic (but also invisible) "issue" with zero performance impact is the same as a microfin array with serious manufacturing issues that would cause dramatic performance issues? Are you kidding? As I said, that is the very definition of a false equivalence.

Also, how on earth would I be talking about material waste? Swapping out tooling while it's still able to reliably produce parts that are within spec is wasteful. Is it a big deal? Obviously not. But avoiding unnecessary waste is still a good thing.

I'm not specifically defending EK, I'm pointing out that you're making a huge fuss over meaningless details with zero effect on any of the functional aspects of the product (and not even any on the aesthetics, seeing how none of this is visible!), while heaping on assumptions that this is due to laziness or poor craftsmanship when there are other more reasonable explanations for choosing to proceed in that manner.

 

[thesmokingman]

Making excuses? Lolwut? So you're actually arguing that a purely cosmetic (but also invisible) "issue" with zero performance impact is the same as a microfin array with serious manufacturing issues that would cause dramatic performance issues? Are you kidding? As I said, that is the very definition of a false equivalence.

Also, how on earth would I be talking about material waste? Swapping out tooling while it's still able to reliably produce parts that are within spec is wasteful. Is it a big deal? Obviously not. But avoiding unnecessary waste is still a good thing.

I'm not specifically defending EK, I'm pointing out that you're making a huge fuss over meaningless details with zero effect on any of the functional aspects of the product (and not even any on the aesthetics, seeing how none of this is visible!), while heaping on assumptions that this is due to laziness or poor craftsmanship when there are other more reasonable explanations for choosing to proceed in that manner.

Ah wrong dude, that shit is out of spec. The tooling marks are left behind because the tooling is very worn out. Proper milling doesn't leave markings that you can feel with your touch. They are cutting costs by using tooling that's way worn out.

 

[Steamroller]

Ah wrong dude, that shit is out of spec. The tooling marks are left behind because the tooling is very worn out. Proper milling doesn't leave markings that you can feel with your touch. They are cutting costs by using tooling that's way worn out.

The tooling marks on the EK blocks are intentional. EK is using a different nickel plating process which does not fill gaps as ordinary nickel plating does. That is the reason why the marks are so visible on nickel plated stuff. The backplates have even more visible marks, again very intentional. This gives products a texture. EK could easily do it differently, if they wanted to.
Ask their support or marketing team and you will get the same answer.

Its idiotic to say the marks are because of worn tooling if every single product has it.

 

[Valantar]

Ah wrong dude, that shit is out of spec. The tooling marks are left behind because the tooling is very worn out. Proper milling doesn't leave markings that you can feel with your touch. They are cutting costs by using tooling that's way worn out.

Have you seen the non-visible parts of any CNC milled high-end consumer product, like an Apple or Dell laptop chassis? Milling marks galore. That's how you do high-volume machining: material removal first, surface finishing second and only where necessary. The approach you're describing is slow, wasteful (time, energy, tooling) and inefficient. Milling marks do not indicate worn-out tooling, it indicates imperfect tooling or setup. Imperfect does not mean out of spec, nor does it mean non-functional or insufficient. And as was mentioned above, nickel plating makes even the smallest imperfection extremely visible. Also, are you able to feel a photo with your fingers? 'Cause this whole debate is based on photos of EK prototypes ...

These aren't medical devices, high-end industrial machine parts, aerospace or space travel parts, or anything else requiring those kinds of tolerances.

For the n'th time: unless this has an actually noticeable effect on flow and thermals, it doesn't matter whatsoever, and we should all be thankful that EK doesn't prioritize "perfection" including the inevitable 50-100% price jump that would include.

 

[Mixer]

When I asked for the case ETA, EK said that the case won't be released because of lack of interest and demand. It will only be used for showcases.

 

[VSG]

When I asked for the case ETA, EK said that the case won't be released because of lack of interest and demand. It will only be used for showcases.

Not sure who you spoke to, but I just asked Attila and he said the cases are still on, they are searching for the optimal manufacturer now.