Intel Study: Diversity and Inclusion in Gaming

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
How do they know there aren't any transvestites.... in games already
There isn't a pecker search room that I've noticed.

 

[remixedcat]

It's up to the parents to teach tolerance. If games and TV programs want to include LGBTQIA+, that's fine with me and if they don't that's fine too. No one says you must consume certain media and at the end of the day profit will always win out with media.

Not if they sacrifice plot and gameplay for that shit. They are making shitty games and movies and tv but either retconning or making one of thier characters an acronym person just to sell the movie or game and ppl hate on those that just call it a crappy game or movie a phobe or ist.

 

[R-T-B]

Game company quick to include the under-rep only to continue adding stereotypes of them isn't ideal.

This is an excellent point.

Not if they sacrifice plot and gameplay for that shit.

So don't buy it. They can make what the market wants, or doesn't want, whatever really. They should just have done their market research well if they want to survive.

Keep in mind you aren't the only buying group in the market.

Hi,
How do they know there aren't any transvestites.... in games already
There isn't a pecker search room that I've noticed.

Because you often choose your gender explicitly at char creation?

Maybe my RPG is showing...

Yeah, addressing under representation by using stereotypes is more damaging than not using diverse character models.

Similar to when African Americans or POC were popular tv chars in the 70s/80s. Jesus christ the stereotypes were unreal. Mr. T memes just barely might've made it worth it, but only barely...

It was a start but it wasn't a GOOD start.

 

[dirtyferret]

Not if they sacrifice plot and gameplay for that shit. They are making shitty games and movies and tv but either retconning or making one of thier characters an acronym person just to sell the movie or game and ppl hate on those that just call it a crappy game or movie a phobe or ist.

Their plot and their gameplay. I'm sure if it becomes unprofitable they will change.

 

[Xzibit]

This is an excellent point.


So don't buy it. They can make what the market wants, or doesn't want, whatever really. They should just have done their market research well if they want to survive.

Keep in mind you aren't the only buying group in the market.


Because you often choose your gender explicitly at char creation?

Maybe my RPG is showing...


Similar to when African Americans or POC were popular tv chars in the 70s/80s. Jesus christ the stereotypes were unreal. Mr. T memes just barely might've made it worth it, but only barely...

It was a start but it wasn't a GOOD start.

They still are. Some of the most popular games include "acceptable" stereotypes. Some were already posted but like you noted the market (In an Ideal world) should correct it. Well they are minorities to begin with. They don't have the un-buying power that will make a difference. Aside from publicly shaming the publisher (Not in favor of those tactics) it will be dismissed and the player base will just be mad at them for trying to mess with their game.

 

[R-T-B]

They still are. Some of the most popular games include "acceptable" stereotypes. Some were already posted but like you noted the market (In an Ideal world) should correct it. Well they are minorities to begin with. They don't have the un-buying power that will make a difference. Aside from publicly shaming the publisher (Not in favor of those tactics) it will be dismissed and the player base will just be mad at them for trying to mess with their game.

I agree. When a typical game has three or four main chars throwing in concepts like lgtbq or race may be silly when one group is dominant in the target story.

However, I can see an argument being made for city builder type games to include it and such, if done right.

Sadly, one example I can think if is Rim World, and they could not have done it worse. Homosexual characters in that game are generally presented in a way that is problematic to the colony. This led to players "fixing" the issue by implants that would change their sexuality, or outright just killing gay people on arrival.

You can smell the PR crisis a mile away with that one. And all he had to do to fix it was not make homosexuals so problematic (specifically, they hit on chars constantly that had no interest and brought colony morale down). Instead he sort of doubled down on it from my understanding.

If you're going to do it, there is certainly an argument to try to do it right. Follow the stats or make the story either integral or interesting. Hamfisted "look at this super gay/racial minority guy I threw in with no thought whatsoever" attempts are dumb. I fully agree with that logic.

 

[Caring1]

Because you often choose your gender explicitly at char creation?

Maybe my RPG is showing...

There's still only the option to select from two genders, when there is said to be around 100 diverse genders, and at least 3 legally recognised in places.

Legal recognition of non-binary gender - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[R-T-B]

There's still only the option to select from two genders, when there is said to be around 100 diverse genders, and at least 3 legally recognised in places.

Legal recognition of non-binary gender - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gender is a spectrum basically so it makes some sense. We need not confuse gender identity with sex (though that happens often).

I don't seriously expect any form to list all the parts of that spectrum, and I doubt many are going to go off a %/% male female slider anyways... but it's good to see some places offering an "other" option as a gesture.

And the first person to make that one attack helicopter joke will go straight to frog hell. Don't make me talk to the big toad.

There's still only the option to select from two genders,

Not in some of my games, but damn, I never finish anyth

 

[looniam]

Similar to when African Americans or POC were popular tv chars in the 70s/80s. Jesus christ the stereotypes were unreal. Mr. T memes just barely might've made it worth it, but only barely...

70s? as norman lear rolls over in his grave. i'll agree 80s TV sucked but sanford and son, the jeffersons, good times? i'm of the opinion that those were great shows no matter the ethnic group; george jefferson was the same as archie bunker.

i will agree that its usually a bad idea for those in ivory towers to try helping the disadvantaged but not to dismiss how blaxploitation opened the door for blacks to direct and produce major studio films. and pam grier

sometimes by accident something good happens . .js.

 

[R-T-B]

70s? as norman lear rolls over in his grave. i'll agree 80s TV sucked but sanford and son, the jeffersons, good times? i'm of the opinion that those were great shows no matter the ethnic group; george jefferson was the same as archie bunker.

i will agree that its usually a bad idea for those in ivory towers to try helping the disadvantaged but not to dismiss how blaxploitation opened the door for blacks to direct and produce major studio films. and pam grier

sometimes by accident something good happens . .js.

There were exceptions, but a lot of shit got made too.

 

[Deleted member 190774]

This is for R-T-B and Caring1, based on my life experience..

If you're lucky, you'll get 80-90 years out of this life and for the most part, people don't care about you at all - outside what it is you can do for them. If you're lucky, you will stay friends with your family - I haven't; If you're lucky, you will find 2 or 3 friends that you can rely on. You might not speak to them for months on end, but if you need them they're there.

There's potentially going to be a whole number of shit things that happen where you think life has turned to custard, and wonder if you can ever recover, or should you just end it all now. If you don't end it all, then you will have this realization that life is only about what you and the person closest to you make of it, and no one owes you anything - irrespective of how hard you work for it

If you work hard, you'll find some people resent you being above average and just want to bring you down. You'll put up with work-place bullying because you can't figure out how in this day and age it can still be a thing.

You may get to the point where you realize taking med's is completely pointless, and you'll deal with your depression in your own way. Not a whole lot will make you particularly happy, but you can pretend, if only for a while.

Interestingly, when I had the opportunity to sue a corporate who had not only wronged me, but a number of other people, the courts told me to stop trying to solve everyone else's problems. If you can't rely on these people, then who can you?

Knowing this, might put some perspective around some of the things I've said in this thread - that might seem to you a bit negative, and might help you understand your place in the world. Try to do the best for you, and lower your expectations of everyone else.

 

[R-T-B]

I appreciate the context.

For my context, I suffer from a sleep disorder and mild autism (known as Aspergers Symdrome in the past). This isn't "bad enough" where I really want to apply longterm for disability but it does present certain challenges.

I presently do work for a family business as an IT security consultant. I guess you could say I am lucky, though there are days you wish it wasn't family you worked with... lol.

It is what it is. I appreciate the discussion has gone far from toxic to productive on both sides now.

 

[Caring1]

This is for R-T-B and Caring1, based on my life experience..

- that might seem to you a bit negative, and might help you understand your place in the world. Try to do the best for you, and lower your expectations of everyone else.

Not negative at all, as I'm a realist and realised a long time ago being on the spectrum myself made me different and I didn't fit in.
There is no meaning to life, it's just a journey we all endure and have to make the most of on the way, while doing the best we can for ourselves while trying not to hurt others on the way.

 

[64K]

The toxic behavior definitely comes from both sides. I was on Ars Technica a few years ago and there was an article about the next Dr Who would be a woman. I am a big Dr Who fan for decades and I left a comment saying that Dr Who had been a male for 55 years and I didn't see the reason why Dr Who should need to be a female now. That was all I said. I was immediately attacked by the Politically Correct for being a cave man and several members said they were glad that TV no longer catered to narrow minded people like me. A moderator deleted my comment but left all the attack posts on me up.

I rarely go to Ars Technica anymore and certainly don't post there anymore.

Sometimes Inclusiveness makes no sense at all. Like for example the Boy Scouts now have to accept girls even though there has been a Girl Scouts for 100 years now. Interestingly the Girl Scouts have said that they won't be accepting boys because they don't see any point in it.

 

[medi01]

@64K
The idea is that any ethnical or gender disparity is caused by oppression.
And if you dare question is, or suggest it isn't - you are <insert slur>.

It is also unfalsifiable. Asians, for instance, do better than whites, contrary to "oppression theory", but, hold on, that is because they "embrace whiteness" (whatever that means).

So it is a religion, not a theory that is up for debates.

We got to a point of Arab female (!!!) professors being suspended in Canada for stating that in her opinion systemic racism does not exist in Canada.

It is an aggressive religion which looks rather unstoppable at this point.

It is by no means something new, however. That is how communist countries function.

In your Dr Who example, the idea is that the lack of female leads in media was caused by male conspiracy.
To fix that conspiracy, instead of establishing new franchises one needs to "fix" existing ones.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
You mean doctor who wasn't a cross dresser

 

[R-T-B]

The idea is that any ethnical or gender disparity is caused by oppression.

Yes, but that's not a reason to replace a role that has been male forever on a show like Dr. Who, or attack people who point out the history of that role. It's also not a reason NOT to replace the role depending on the age of the show.

I for one, was a little bugged they made Higgins from Magnum PI a woman in the remake, but have learned to roll with it (show is still a shadow of what it was but for other reasons)

Like said both sides can be toxic. Attack the toxicity, not the point.

That is how communist countries function.

Please leave economic ideologies out of social policies.

 

[Why_Me]

The toxic behavior definitely comes from both sides. I was on Ars Technica a few years ago and there was an article about the next Dr Who would be a woman. I am a big Dr Who fan for decades and I left a comment saying that Dr Who had been a male for 55 years and I didn't see the reason why Dr Who should need to be a female now. That was all I said. I was immediately attacked by the Politically Correct for being a cave man and several members said they were glad that TV no longer catered to narrow minded people like me. A moderator deleted my comment but left all the attack posts on me up.

I rarely go to Ars Technica anymore and certainly don't post there anymore.

Sometimes Inclusiveness makes no sense at all. Like for example the Boy Scouts now have to accept girls even though there has been a Girl Scouts for 100 years now. Interestingly the Girl Scouts have said that they won't be accepting boys because they don't see any point in it.

They killed Dr. Who and James Bond. =/

 

[looniam]

There were exceptions, but a lot of shit got made too.

that does applies to TV in general and why i haven't watched it in 20+ years.

don't be a helpful henretta and stay in your lane. if you can't or refuse to see that clouds do have silver linings then social issues would not benefit from your point of view.

i have been a misrepresented social class and i'll tell the best thing is for you to shut the helll up and let US deal with our issues/ anything well intentioned people do is fuck things up.

btw different stokes w/gary colemean really burns my ass.

 

[Vayra86]

They killed Dr. Who and James Bond. =/

Wait, what, James Bond got postponed so long he's become female for the next one?

I might actually pay to see that Shaken, not queer..erhrm stirred

This is for R-T-B and Caring1, based on my life experience..

If you're lucky, you'll get 80-90 years out of this life and for the most part, people don't care about you at all - outside what it is you can do for them. If you're lucky, you will stay friends with your family - I haven't; If you're lucky, you will find 2 or 3 friends that you can rely on. You might not speak to them for months on end, but if you need them they're there.

There's potentially going to be a whole number of shit things that happen where you think life has turned to custard, and wonder if you can ever recover, or should you just end it all now. If you don't end it all, then you will have this realization that life is only about what you and the person closest to you make of it, and no one owes you anything - irrespective of how hard you work for it

If you work hard, you'll find some people resent you being above average and just want to bring you down. You'll put up with work-place bullying because you can't figure out how in this day and age it can still be a thing.

You may get to the point where you realize taking med's is completely pointless, and you'll deal with your depression in your own way. Not a whole lot will make you particularly happy, but you can pretend, if only for a while.

Interestingly, when I had the opportunity to sue a corporate who had not only wronged me, but a number of other people, the courts told me to stop trying to solve everyone else's problems. If you can't rely on these people, then who can you?

Knowing this, might put some perspective around some of the things I've said in this thread - that might seem to you a bit negative, and might help you understand your place in the world. Try to do the best for you, and lower your expectations of everyone else.

This I could and can still totally feel... until I got a daughter

Perspectives do change based on life experience. Having kids can be a big thing in that sense, and it also sort of moves your perspective towards the time after your life. Our ties to the real world and real people define us, make no mistake... and similarly, lack of those ties can make for a pretty empty existence, too. Doesn't have to, but for most, it really does.

A big part of that I think is the contract we have with society. And whether that contract has been violated or not, or how badly or often. Its a matter of trust, really, and this is hard to gain and easy to lose. For that specific reason I'm often whining about principles - as a consumer, as a person, in how we approach problems and in how we digest information. Its about that social contract which is indirectly about you, me and everything in this world. We're moving towards an age where more and more people don't see that contract or only see it when they need it, they just see problems coming their way and no solutions to hold on to. Its down to that simple idea of 'If he/she doesn't trust me, why would I trust them? and 'If he makes a mess, why would it matter if I don't'.

If you've been lucky or if you've had equal opportunity you're much more likely to work with the social contract rather than against it.

And that right there I think explains very well why a whole internet-meme-generation that has learned to communicate over the internet more so than in real social interaction is feeling like they don't belong in the 'old world'. Its all difficult that, having to adapt, not being safe in anonymity. So to fix that lack of security, its very attractive as well to start wearing costumes, to hide your real you. Its something of all ages, but it used to be something you'd do 'to be a different person for a day'. Now its moving to becoming a norm. Is it really healthy to cater society so much to groups that may very well be exhibiting psychological problems and will only accept a contract on their terms? Doubtful. And realistically... it won't work anyway. That safe bubble isn't a reality. Its a bubble and it shall burst.

If people really want to support diverse and inclusive societies, make sure people have actual, equal, opportunities, which means making society a lot more social, supportive, and less about money and more about tangible things that make us happy, healthy and therefore tolerant. Support creativity by making new things instead of trying to erase the old. Embrace the old, so you can learn from it. Thát is the purpose of history...

 

[Caring1]

Wait, what, James Bond got postponed so long he's become female for the next one?

I might actually pay to see that Shaken, not queer..erhrm stirred

I thought there was a mention of a Jane Bond, and all the Karens caused an uproar.
I don't care what gender they are it's the gadgets and action sequences I watch them for, pure escapism.

 

[Deleted member 190774]

If people really want to support diverse and inclusive societies, make sure people have actual, equal, opportunities, which means making society a lot more social, supportive, and less about money and more about tangible things that make us happy, healthy and therefore tolerant. Support creativity by making new things instead of trying to erase the old. Embrace the old, so you can learn from it. Thát is the purpose of history...

It's going to be almost impossible to achieve this harmony though.

I honestly see it playing out like this. The film Demolition Man, where one half of society lives in its Joy-Joy social surroundings with no physical contact, no swearing or intolerance - and the other half living underground in the real-world.

You can't please everybody all of the time; you can't force me to like Lego-brick artwork, country music or jazz, nor can you force people to like each other. People have wildly different personalities and unless you stomp that out there's always going to be friction or disagreement.

Look at it this way, I got told at work to stop being above average, because it makes others uncomfortable. This is really where we are going...

 

[Deleted member 193792]

Unfortunately, our current global climate has reached a point where social media has been used to manipulate and twist news and facts to sow division.

Food for thought:

Spoiler

 

[80251]

The toxic behavior definitely comes from both sides. I was on Ars Technica a few years ago and there was an article about the next Dr Who would be a woman. I am a big Dr Who fan for decades and I left a comment saying that Dr Who had been a male for 55 years and I didn't see the reason why Dr Who should need to be a female now. That was all I said. I was immediately attacked by the Politically Correct for being a cave man and several members said they were glad that TV no longer catered to narrow minded people like me. A moderator deleted my comment but left all the attack posts on me up.

I rarely go to Ars Technica anymore and certainly don't post there anymore.

Sometimes Inclusiveness makes no sense at all. Like for example the Boy Scouts now have to accept girls even though there has been a Girl Scouts for 100 years now. Interestingly the Girl Scouts have said that they won't be accepting boys because they don't see any point in it.

I had thought the Boy Scouts -- at least in the USA -- were finished? They filed for bankruptcy.

 

[Vayra86]

Food for thought:

Spoiler

Snoop's a smart smoker, but this idea that there is 'one establishment' or some higher power writing the script is... meh. That is the punchline of the losers of society. The have nots. Its the same thing as old tribes dancing for the gods to avert disaster, they create something to explain what they can't grasp.

Same thing with social media. Can we, really, blame social media for anything? All it does is magnify our own shitty behaviour on it. Those who post there, ARE the problem. Even if you post positively, you're just another color of ant and the system is that jar being shaken. Its like jumping into a pool of shit and then wondering why it stinks. Snoop would do himself and his community a favor pointing that out... instead of... generating clicks

The internet on its own is not the driver for this. Its our own behaviour and consciousness, not only of today but also historically. Have we learned lessons over time and are we still learning? I really hope so. The internet is just a catalyst and commerce is the gasoline. If you ask me, almost every social platform serves primarily to create friction because that attracts clicks and attention which turns into ad revenue. An economy based on nothing but air that keeps on giving through the power of algorithms. We're learning, and its time to understand that principle and kill it with fire.