TSMC Under U.S. Pressure Over China Fab Expansion

[mtcn77]

SERIOUSLY!! Dude, no F-ing way is that the same.
I don't know where you're from, but it would be the same as saying you're from the same country as a really horrible person from the same country. I don't think you would appreciate that.
You clearly have no idea about the history of china and Taiwan, so please stop making stupid assumptions.

I'm Turkish and Xi Jinping was an outcast until he became the president. Cut back on the snowflake. Come back to reality and don't insult people for their opinion to make an assertion fallacy. Louder won't get you heard.

 

[RH92]

Well, I would guess some 60-70% of TSMCs income comes from US companies.

Oh so since Europe buys a significant quantity of Apple product i guess EU has something to say about strategic decisions Apple makes ...... oh wait it doesn't work like this does it ....

 

[TheLostSwede]

I'm Turkish and Xi Jinping was an outcast until he became the president. Cut back on the snowflake. Come back to reality and don't insult people for their opinion to make an assertion fallacy. Louder won't get you heard.

Well, that explains a lot. And snowflake? Yeah, that's what I am...

Oh so since Europe buys a significant quantity of Apple product i guess EU has something to say about strategic decisions Apple makes ...... oh it doesn't work like this wait .....

Sorry, what? What kind of logic is that?
TSMC makes chips and wouldn't even be in business if they had real competition by other foundries in other parts of the world.
However, the competition got lazy or decided it was too expensive to compete in cutting edge manufacturing, so they pulled out.
It's a huge difference being a company that makes parts for other companies compared to being a company that sells goods direct to consumers, but apparently this logic doesn't connect with you.
If everyone took their business and went to Samsung or GloFo or anyone else that could theoretically compete with them, TSMC would be out of business in no time.
Have you even looked at how much of their earnings they're investing in R&D to stay ahead of the competition? They keep increasing it every year as well.
You can't compare a consumer electronics company to what they're doing.

 

[mtcn77]

Well, that explains a lot.

I'm sure you got to learn a lot about Chinese history from this discussion riding your high horse.

TSMC makes chips and wouldn't even be in business if they had real competition

That is a big if.
They formed the company before there was a market for open foundries.
There was and is no competition...
I really hate explaining myself to ill informed sjws on internet boards.

 

[RH92]

Sorry, what? What kind of logic is that?

That's your logic , just with a different example . Im glad even you realise how little sense it makes .

 

[TheLostSwede]

That is a big if.
They formed the company before there was a market for open foundries.
There was and is no competition...

Yeah, that shows what you know about the foundry industry, enough said.
Just FYI, I'm putting you on ignore from now on, so don't bother replying,

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Well, I would guess some 60-70% of TSMCs income comes from US companies. As such, their customers would have a say in whether they want their chips made in Taiwan, china or the US, no?
As for the US government, that bit is very complicated, as most of these things are, but let's say it involves selling arms to Taiwan.

The customers can always take their business elsewhere...........oh wait, they can't, oh crap. No one has the right to tell them who they can trade with. it's not like i can dictate anything to any company i buy stuff from is it. I'm sure TSMC will have other companies queueing up for their services.

 

[mtcn77]

Yeah, that shows what you know about the foundry industry, enough said.
Just FYI, I'm putting you on ignore from now on, so don't bother replying,

How stupid must you feel to know if they let him become the CEO of "Texas Instruments", there wouldn't be a TSMC in the first place!
PS: the joke is on you my friend.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

USA are right to fight for TSMC

LoL us is so strong. Will shoot TSMC in head but us government meanwhile support crypto coins and scalpers which distort the market.

 

[mtcn77]

You can't compare a consumer electronics company to what they're doing

They would sue your company if you tried to compete with them. While everyone tried to run their own foundry in the 80's, he got everything under patent protection.

 

[RedBear]

Uhm, dude, china has NEVER ruled Taiwan. Japan did rule most of Taiwan at one point in time and even the Dutch and Spanish had small holds on the island, but no chinese government until the KMT/ROC came here after losing the war to the communists, has ruled Taiwan.

Ahem, before the Japanese Taiwan was ruled by the Chinese Qing dynasty, between 1683 and 1895.

Strategical partnership.

More like strategical bullyism, but it's all fine and well when it's America coercing foreign governments and companies, of course.

 

[Space Lynx]

How the feck does America have any say as to what a Taiwanese company does?

they could block them from building fabs here (losing a lot of money) international world corporations have to play ball or go elsewhere.

USA could turn to Intel for all its fab needs and fund them heavily "under national security" reasons. so if TSMC wants to keep American market share (the best paying marketplace in the world) they would have to play ball with what USA wants.

that being said, USA doesn't care THAT MUCH about this, I think its more just frustrating TSMC is doing it, so it really won't change anything.

 

[mtcn77]

USA could turn to Intel for all its fab needs and fund them heavily "under national security" reasons.

While I would cherish such an idea, US was busy destroying its own human capital - like it was easy to grow - embracing backwards "critical race" ideas and rainbow coloured mediocrity acceptance meetings, instead of industrious meritocracy. You had it coming.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Basically, it all boils down to Americas paranoia over china.

If America blocked them from building fabs there, surely they would be shooting themselves in the foot,

 

[TheLostSwede]

The customers can always take their business elsewhere...........oh wait, they can't, oh crap. No one has the right to tell them who they can trade with. it's not like i can dictate anything to any company i buy stuff from is it. I'm sure TSMC will have other companies queueing up for their services.

I guess you don't work in the manufacturing business? You can actually stipulate a lot of things when you write a contract.
A US company signed a contract with a company I used to work for that was some 400-pages with terms of how the product was supposed to be made, when it was supposed to done etc.
It took a week to negotiate all the terms and I'm just happy I wasn't part of that process.

TSMC is a bit of an edge case, but as we've seen, Nvidia took its business and went to Samsung, so it's possible to go elsewhere.

The US also convinced TSMC to ban HiSilicon as one of its customers, which pretty much put Huawei out of business.

Ahem, before the Japanese Taiwan was ruled by the Chinese Qing dynasty, between 1683 and 1895.

Or not. That's Xinese propaganda. Go read up on things and you'll see that they ruled nothing.
What they did, was doing trade with the locals in Taiwan, that's hardly ruling Taiwan.
Do you believe in the nine-dash line too?

Basically, it all boils down to Americas paranoia over china.

If America blocked them from building fabs there, surely they would be shooting themselves in the foot,

Why would the US be shooting themselves in the foot for that?
It wouldn't matter the least in the long run.
And it's not just paranoia, why can't people see this?
Had it been before Xi, I would agree, but things are changing fast in Xina and it's not changing for the better.
This is how they treat their own companies, so why would they even blink when it comes to taking over companies that aren't local if it benefited them?

China fines internet giants in anti-monopoly cases | Taiwan News | Jul. 7, 2021 20:55

www.taiwannews.com.tw

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Or not. That's Xinese propaganda. Go read up on things and you'll see that they ruled nothing.
What they did, was doing trade with the locals in Taiwan, that's hardly ruling Taiwan.
Do you believe in the nine dash line too?

Try reading this-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Qing_rule

Qing had three main policies relating to the governance of Taiwan.

I think they did a bit more than trade with them.

 

[pnkiller78]

America has a say on anything that happens on this planet and even beyond this planet , don't you know that .

That's the problem with "north americans", 'cuase they are a super power country (military and economic power) they think they own the rest of the world and have a say on what everybody else do.
Also, they don't give a fuck about other people ethnicity or from where in the rest of the world they come from, for they "everybody else" is enclosed in "skin color and facial features" bags: Black people, no matter which country they belong, they are all "black", even the ones born in US. you're "Chinese", if you look "asian", "Mexicans" if you look "latin american", despite the rest of the lower american continent (central america and south america, which have 7 and 14 countries respectively) is not the "U.S.";
They even call themselves "Americans", as if the entire American continent belongs to them, and the rest of the american continent people were "aliens" or something.
In their mind, all look the same and "are" the same for what it matters. And it's not gonna change... they just are what they are.
But don't get me wrong, I like "north americans". When they come to my country, i befriend them. I think they should invest more time in school learning geography, world history, and related subjects so they don't look like this to the rest of the people on the world.

 

[the54thvoid]

The US also convinced TSMC to ban HiSilicon as one of its customers, which pretty much put Huawei out of business.

Huawei made a greater profit in 2020 than it did in the preceding years. Its smartphone business is down (sanctions) but otherwise, the company is doing fine. Folks forget it's got a pretty huge home market. Sanctions often have strange effects on companies. To the hostile outsider, they appear to be great but in reality, it simply forces a new direction. And a company as large as Huwaei, with its internal market doesn't crumble so easily.

As for TSMC, it still wants to make profits and China will afford them a huge market. As Intel (and other non-sino fabs) seek to up their game, TSMC might well be thinking they could lose business to the Western fabs under nationalistic investments. They want to play the US line and keep their options open at the same time. It's just a business, after all.

 

[mechtech]

It's how most americans and many europeans refer to "chinese" looking people, regardless of where they're from.
Much like white people are all from the US in many asian countries. You have no idea how fed up I am with being called american and that people assume I teach english for a living. Or you know, people just pointing at staring at times and calling me an outsider.

Lol. I like the fed up of being called an American. As someone who travelled through South Korean and Mongolia ya people assume that of caucasians. In Mongolia they usually assume Russian though.

as for outsider, I think Japan has a slang term for foreigners

In these modern times every country should have their own fab.

 

[btarunr]

How the feck does America have any say as to what a Taiwanese company does?

The fact that Qualcomm, Apple, AMD, Marvell, NVIDIA, etc., TSMC's biggest clients, are American companies.

 

[mtcn77]

In these modern times every country should have their own fab

People underestimate TSMC's power in preventing that.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Try reading this-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_under_Qing_rule

Qing had three main policies relating to the governance of Taiwan.

I think they did a bit more than trade with them.

So Great Britain ruled all of the US? In fact, they ruled the world, no? I'm sure they had some policy that said they did.

Just because someone has policies about something, doesn't mean they rule it.
So no, at no point has china ruled Taiwan. Take it up with the local tribes if you want, but they were the ones keeping the chinese out for centuries.

 

[mtcn77]

Let's not be lectured by the most ignorant hater with his bias projecting.
Obviously, China isn't the UK.

 

[Mistral]

Hey, TSMC further expanding in china is fine, as long as they keep the tech level to 14nm and older. They are a publicly traded company and have a responsibility to not make their IP too easy to steal or risk being pushed out of business in a few years like some other shortsighted companies that weren't smart and got robbed...

 

[claes]

Lot of nationalism here, very little understanding of global capital or the ongoing US-China trade war. The economy is organized in blocs, not individual nations.

As @the54thvoid pointed out, it’s just a company. It could probably care less about the history of attempted colonization/annexation of Taiwan unless their shareholders get excited about it.

Also someone should probably ban mtcn77 already lol what a jerk