TSMC Under U.S. Pressure Over China Fab Expansion

[Deleted member 24505]

So Great Britain ruled all of the US? In fact, they ruled the world, no? I'm sure they had some policy that said they did.

Just because someone has policies about something, doesn't mean they rule it.
So no, at no point has china ruled Taiwan. Take it up with the local tribes if you want, but they were the ones keeping the chinese out for centuries.

If they are in the country making rules, just like American state governors, then they are ruling it.

Also what has Britain got to do with this?

You said all they did is trade with them, i showed they did more than that. whoever put the flea in your ear, you need to remove it.

EDIT. I think maybe it's time for a mod to step in and clean up this shit.

 

[Athlonite]

and to help TSMC expand its manufacturing in safer regions as the security situation across the Taiwan strait continues to deteriorate

Safer Regions don't make me laugh we all know the likes of a few 3 letter U.S. organisations that'll be proposing that TSMC poke a little backdoor here or there in chips they send to China

 

[Deleted member 24505]

and to help TSMC expand its manufacturing in safer regions as the security situation across the Taiwan strait continues to deteriorate

Safer Regions don't make me laugh we all know the likes of a few 3 letter U.S. organisations that'll be proposing that TSMC poke a little backdoor here or there in chips they send to China

Yup America is well known for its double standards. OMG your spying on us(plants bug in office)

 

[dorsetknob]

EDIT. I think maybe it's time for a mod to step in and clean up this shit.

Developed into a political racist thread & i got no popcorn

 

[HenrySomeone]

TSMC is a bit of an edge case, but as we've seen, Nvidia took its business and went to Samsung, so it's possible to go elsewhere.

Yes, however they are in somewhat of a unique position since their chip designs are so much better than anyone else's that they can afford to go with an inferior process and still come out on top (and with a lot more stock on top of that, which pretty much makes it a double win). Most others, whose architectures are neck and neck with their competitors don't have this luxury...

 

[looniam]

Developed into a political racist thread & i got no popcorn

cheers.

 

[Flanker]

Saw thread title
Expected can of worms
Did not disappoint

 

[rtwjunkie]

How the feck does America have any say as to what a Taiwanese company does?

You obviously are not very tuned into international partnerships that governments have agreed upon to restrict tech investment and production in China, who is well-known to blatantly steal.

 

[NotHereMan]

Must be a slow day at work

 

[Jayant.arora]

Developed into a political racist thread & i got no popcorn

Yes, most the comments are not related to the topic. My take on it is US should stop being a bully and fund Intel, TI et al to develop their technology and reduce dependence on others.

 

[Turmania]

Does this have any links to Intel as well started to be a customer of tsmc?

 

[DrCR]

Sometimes I wonder if this forum is moderated. And then there’s times where I sure it pragmatically is not. :\

 

[eidairaman1]

How the feck does America have any say as to what a Taiwanese company does?

Stocks, Contracts, if TSMC violates any of it then they can lose out. PRC is known for copying stuff and not innovating hence the term "Chinese Blue Print".

LoL us is so strong. Will shoot TSMC in head but us government meanwhile support crypto coins and scalpers which distort the market.

Distorted thinking.

I guess you don't work in the manufacturing business? You can actually stipulate a lot of things when you write a contract.
A US company signed a contract with a company I used to work for that was some 400-pages with terms of how the product was supposed to be made, when it was supposed to done etc.
It took a week to negotiate all the terms and I'm just happy I wasn't part of that process.

TSMC is a bit of an edge case, but as we've seen, Nvidia took its business and went to Samsung, so it's possible to go elsewhere.

The US also convinced TSMC to ban HiSilicon as one of its customers, which pretty much put Huawei out of business.


Or not. That's Xinese propaganda. Go read up on things and you'll see that they ruled nothing.
What they did, was doing trade with the locals in Taiwan, that's hardly ruling Taiwan.
Do you believe in the nine-dash line too?


Why would the US be shooting themselves in the foot for that?
It wouldn't matter the least in the long run.
And it's not just paranoia, why can't people see this?
Had it been before Xi, I would agree, but things are changing fast in Xina and it's not changing for the better.
This is how they treat their own companies, so why would they even blink when it comes to taking over companies that aren't local if it benefited them?

China fines internet giants in anti-monopoly cases | Taiwan News | Jul. 7, 2021 20:55

www.taiwannews.com.tw

Thank you

 

[watzupken]

Objectively, I feel US is overstepping their boundary here. They got what they wanted, i.e. to have TSMC set up shop in US soil, so I don't think they should get into a company's plan to expand anywhere else. It is true TSMC is utilising US technology to develop their fab, but US have similar dependency on them to develop their chips. So I don't really think US have the upper hand here.

 

[eidairaman1]

Stocks, Contracts, if TSMC violates any of it then they can lose out. PRC is known for copying stuff and not innovating hence the term "Chinese Blue Print".


Distorted thinking.



Thank you

Objectively, I feel US is overstepping their boundary here. They got what they wanted, i.e. to have TSMC set up shop in US soil, so I don't think they should get into a company's plan to expand anywhere else. It is true TSMC is utilising US technology to develop their fab, but US have similar dependency on them to develop their chips. So I don't really think US have the upper hand here.

@TheLostSwede and @rtwjunkie explained it. Remember IPs are protected. PRC cheats everyone.

@bogmali I feel this article has run its course and should be locked

 

[InVasMani]

The environmental impact of where to build another fab from TSMC and other fabs is what should be prioritized.

 

[erocker]

It's how most americans and many europeans refer to "chinese" looking people, regardless of where they're from.

Not in my experience, though it may be a regional thing.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Who do you think protects Taiwan from being overrun by China.


Do you have any idea how many US tax dollars go towards Taiwan's defense.

Here's a clue ... this doesn't come cheap.

It's all about protecting an investment though and not people

 

[Why_Me]

It's all about protecting an investment though and not people

You get what you pay for and nobody pays more than the US.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

You get what you pay for and nobody pays more than the US.

Yeah, where dollars mean more than people

 

[john_]

USA are right to fight for TSMC. It's one of the world most important chip manufacturer, at the edge of technology. The whole world depend on them for technology somehow.

If China decided one day to take over the production sites on their land it would impact everyone.

I can understand the reasoning about your first phrase and you are right from that perspective.

As for that second phrase, US could also do the same. Find a legal reason, like how it almost destroyed Huawei and take over TSMC's fabs in a few years from now. It will be more difficult to attack a Taiwanese company, much more difficult to justify it, but not impossible. If TSMC manage to get a lead over US companies in manufacturing that it is impossible for US companies to cover, US could see TSMC as a problem.

You get what you pay for and nobody pays more than the US.

Do Syrians get a refund for destroying their country by supporting a civil war for geopolitical reasons? How about Kurds who payed and got nothing because Turkey is a more important ally?

And here I stop this kind of posts. Sorry about this kind of posts.

 

[sepheronx]

Uhm, dude, china has NEVER ruled Taiwan. Japan did rule most of Taiwan at one point in time and even the Dutch and Spanish had small holds on the island, but no chinese government until the KMT/ROC came here after losing the war to the communists, has ruled Taiwan.


Seriously? You clearly ignored everything I wrote, cute...

Qing Dynasty ruled over in 1683 till 1895 when it ceded it to Japan. Qing Dynasty last I looked up was China. Not modern China but most nations then are not the same as they are now anyway.

@TheLostSwede and @rtwjunkie explained it. Remember IPs are protected. PRC cheats everyone.

@bogmali I feel this article has run its course and should be locked

While I agree that China cheats the IP licensing issues on a daily basis, I am pretty certain both parties are part of the WTO. And from what I gathered, in both cases, are a clear violation of the WTO rules. I would wager it would be in better to deal with this in some WTO court. But oh well. Its better to be bombastic than anything else.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Qing Dynasty ruled over in 1683 till 1895 when it ceded it to Japan. Qing Dynasty last I looked up was China. Not modern China but most nations then are not the same as they are now anyway.


While I agree that China cheats the IP licensing issues on a daily basis, I am pretty certain both parties are part of the WTO. And from what I gathered, in both cases, are a clear violation of the WTO rules. I would wager it would be in better to deal with this in some WTO court. But oh well. Its better to be bombastic than anything else.

Sorry, but no it didn't.
Find another source than Wikipedia and you'll see that's not the truth.
Also, if by ruling, it means that one nation signs a piece of paper that says that they do so, but no-one else, including the nation supposedly being ruled, agrees, does it really mean anything?
And I thought ruling meant you were in charge of the entire territory, not a small trading outpost, as is that was the case, then Sweden ruled the USA at one point in time.

At best, the Qing dynasty managed to occupy parts of Taiwan for seven years.
Recent article with some irrelevant waffle in it.

Was Taiwan Ever Really a Part of China?

John Cena’s apology is a good opportunity to look back at the historical reality of Taiwan’s status and identity over the last 200 years.

thediplomat.com

Taiwan isn't part of most international organisations, as xina says no, so no, those rules so not apply, even less so as xina sees Taiwan as a renegade province. As such, it and all its people and business belongs to xina. As such, they need not justify anything, as it's the internal business of xina and anyone if a different opinion has no say.

 

[sepheronx]

According to the WTO, Taiwan is part of it. Jan 2002.

But oh well, you have your fun.

Also, according to this, parts of Taiwan was under Rule

Taiwan.gov.tw

I'm uncertain how much of that land was of Taiwan total

 

[PaulieG]

If I had seen this thread while you all were on page 2, I may have locked it. If you can all be civil and stay on topic I'll let it be for now, but I'm watching closely. Tread lightly.