Intel Prospects Europe for a Massive €20 Billion New Fab

[btarunr]

Intel is exploring a massive €20 billion ($23.7 billion) manufacturing investment in the European Union that aims to produce "20% of the world's logic chips" by 2030, reports the Financial Times. This is likely to be separate from the company's ongoing investments in Ireland. Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger recently met with the leaders of France and Italy in a bid to "rebalance the semiconductor manufacturing landscape to make supply chains more resilient." Reading between the lines it becomes clear that they are referring to the world's overdependence on Asia, particularly Taiwan, for cutting-edge semiconductor manufacturing.

The location of Intel's new mega-fab remains undecided, as the company is still sitting down with the various EU member states to work out a favorable deal. Regardless of where it lands, the investment would align with the EU's grand-strategy to localize semiconductor manufacturing on a large scale, with the goal of making the EU a net-exporter of semiconductors.



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[Testsubject01]

Intel Prospects Europe for a Massive Taxbreak and Subsidy fund​

Ftfy

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Yikes $23 billion, they are certainly doing something right if they have that much scratch to splash on a new FAB.

 

[Chomiq]

Always spike your drinks when you're about to sign a €20 bn deal. Just look at Macron's eyes.

 

[persondb]

Ftfy

That's just semiconductor business on a nutshell, South Korea per example was reported to plan to do a massive $450 billion investment on chips over the next decade which likely includes lots of tax breaks and subsidies.

Operating a foundry is expensive and europe taxes climates probably don't help(relative to east asian countries who will happily give a lot to you).

 

[Testsubject01]

Yikes $23 billion, they are certainly doing something right if they have that much scratch to splash on a new FAB.

Like @persondb pointed out, they are not actually investing that much money. Intel is fishing for a government in the EU to offer them the most tax breaks and subsidy funding.

 

[bug]

Like @persondb pointed out, they are not actually investing that much money. Intel is fishing for a government in the EU to offer them the most tax breaks and subsidy funding.

1. Tax break only come after you invest.
2. EU is probably the worst place on Earth to fish for tax breaks.

Sure, for €20bn they will get something back, but that's not the primary goal.
Granted, this is just an initial announcement, but I'm still a bit surprised Netherlands isn't on that list.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Intel is investing $20bn in two new factories in the US and a further $7bn to double the capacity of its plant in Ireland, as part of a multiyear strategy to catch up with Asian semiconductor giants TSMC and Samsung. It is also planning to bring its most advanced 7nm chip production to the Irish site, the group said.

https://www.ft.com/content/40eda20e-17d8-4368-bdeb-a2d1b151bc34

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

I wish the world had enough sense of solidarity to tell mega corporations like Intel to fund such projects themselves and that they'll receive no such tax breaks.... Instead though, most countries willingly prostrate themselves before these entities and offer larger and larger tax breaks in an escalating race toward the bottom.

 

[plastiscɧ]

Monsieur Marcron looks a bit tired!
The negotiations must have been exhausting...

I wish the world had enough sense of solidarity to tell mega corporations like Intel to fund such projects themselves and that they'll receive no such tax breaks.... Instead though, most countries willingly prostrate themselves before these entities and offer larger and larger tax breaks in an escalating race toward the bottom.

Italy and France need the workspaces... they are not that fresh in their economies than the Germans e.g. .

 

[stimpy88]

I think people with a functioning brain can see that TSMC is most likely going to exclusively producing wafers for the CCP in a few years time. This (FAB) situation has to be dealt with very soon, and the only way to do that, is by reducing reliance on them, and building in more stable territories.

It's just a shame that it's Intel, as they are so behind in fab process tech, and not to mention, only build their own chips for themselves.

I actually think that a tech consortium should be formed of major TSMC customers, and should partner with TSMC on building new FABs, outside of the reach physically, legally and financially of the CCP.

 

[bug]

I wish the world had enough sense of solidarity to tell mega corporations like Intel to fund such projects themselves and that they'll receive no such tax breaks....

If a company is willing to invest €20bn, it means they expect to make more then €20bn in return. As a politician, how do you explain to your voters that you kicked out that many jobs? Because even if the company gets some tax breaks, you, as a state, still benefit from high-paying jobs and the taxes and welfare those generate?

Tax breaks are not given because states are forced to do it, they're given because states compete in attracting something lucrative. Sure, post factum you can always see how things could have been negotiated better and plans for 10y+ rarely go according to the initial estimates. But that doesn't mean tax breaks are a bad idea.
I would understand skepticism if we were talking subsidies. But we're not.

 

[plastiscɧ]

If a company is willing to invest €20bn, it means they expect to make more then €20bn in return. As a politician, how do you explain to your voters that you kicked out that many jobs? Because even if the company get some tax breaks, you, as a state, still benefit from high-paying jobs nd the taxes and welfare those generate?

Tax break are not given because states are forced to do it, they're given because states compete in attracting something lucrative. Sure, post factum you can always see how things could have been negotiated better and plans for 10y+ rarely go according to the initial estimates. But that doesn't mean tax breaks are a bad idea.
I would understand skepticism if we were talking subsidies. But we're not.

clean and true argumentation.
despite of that. since yesterday the global tax of 15% will come. G20 nations met in Venice. the negotiations will go on in fall.

 

[bug]

clean and true argumentation.
despite of that. since yesterday the global tax of 15% will come. G20 nations met in Venice. the negotiations will go on in fall.

That's another thing I've been saying for years: instead of crying over companies "optimizing" their revenue streams, fix the damn legislation.
As usual, a simple, universal rule is the best solution. Kinks need to be ironed out (some possibly post-factum), but I think it's a big step in the right direction.

 

[WonkoTheSaneUK]

I think people with a functioning brain can see that TSMC is most likely going to exclusively producing wafers for the CCCP in a few years time. This (FAB) situation has to be dealt with very soon, and the only way to do that, is by reducing reliance on them, and building in more stable territories.

It's just a shame that it's Intel, as they are so behind in fab process tech, and not to mention, only build their own chips for themselves.

I actually think that a tech consortium should be formed of major TSMC customers, and should partner with TSMC on building new FABs, outside of the reach physically, legally and financially of the CCCP.

Are you referring to China or Russia?
Because "CCCP" is how "USSR" is spelled in cyrillic.

 

[Smartcom5]

I would understand skepticism if we were talking subsidies. But we're not.

Where's the actual difference between debt remission (tax-rebates/-breaks) and subsidisation?! There is exactly none, pal!
In one case the company gets to have to pay less, while in the other it has to pay the same as everybody else – but gets like half of its payments refunded (through tax-refunds).

In both cases some particular company is to be better off tax-wise on the balance-sheet – and get incentives other companies don't get. People can twist the words all day long, but one is pre-tax deduction the other is refund of taxes – at the end of the day it's just paper-work. Both cases are tax-effective betterments of a particular company, simple as that.

That being said, it's just lame that the U.S. single-biggest semiconductor-company has the audacity to go around begging for tax-rebates and/or subsidies (which is virtually the same) after a full-blown decade of mismanagement and after having had the single-most highest-grossing fiscal-year of the company's entire history – while at the same time having burned +$40Billion USD on programs of share-buybacks since 2017 for naught, on a tanking stock. The sheer audacity and gall is outrageous!

The only reason why Intel is running around in the EU to go begging for money-packages, is, since they already tried to scam politics and public alike in the the U.S. at least once (Arizona rings any bell?), it blew up and the likelihood of them getting granted some package another time is slim – and the politicians in Europe are likely stupid enough to fall for it again …

Not to sound any cocky or presumptuous here, but people should do their home-work before joining discussions. Intel is one of the most-subsidised U.S. companies on U.S. soil ever since! Billions!

 

[bug]

Where's the actual difference between debt remission (tax-rebates/-breaks) and subsidisation?! There is exactly none, pal!
In one case the company gets to have to pay less, while in the other it has to pay the same as everybody else – but gets like half of its payments refunded (through tax-refunds).

The very big difference is if you don't hold your end of the deal and deliver the goods, there can be no tax breaks to speak of.

 

[Smartcom5]

… and we've seen enough evidence that companies don't care about past negotiations or agreements and get off (to go off-shore) the moment back-payments to the state are imminent, right?

Seen countless times, like with Nokia in Poland (they shut the fab and left the country as soon as the payments were due) or in Germany (Nokia shut down the fabs and work-places as soon as contracts were running out and left the state with +500M Euro of debts just years after the fiasco in Poland). General Motors/Opel in Germany or Enercon in Europe is another prominent example (5.7 Billion of subsidies, and shut everything off and had massive lay-offs like +2,500 workers a single day shortly before the day back-payments were due, not before having transferred like +16 Billion into a foundation were the money is literally untouchable) …

There's no guarantee that said companies will play by the rules and wouldn't shut down their places and go elsewhere. Intel is a special offender in this already.

 

[bug]

… and we've seen enough evidence that companies don't care about past negotiations or agreements and get off (to go off-shore) the moment back-payments to the state are imminent, right?

Seen countless times, like with Nokia in Poland (they shut the fab and left the country as soon as the payments were due) or in Germany (Nokia shut down the fabs and work-places as soon as contracts were running out and left the state with +500M Euro of debts just years after the fiasco in Poland). General Motors/Opel in Germany or Enercon in Europe is another prominent example (5.7 Billion of subsidies, and shut everything off and had massive lay-offs like +2,500 workers a single day shortly before the day back-payments were due, not before having transferred like +16 Billion into a foundation were the money is literally untouchable) …

There's no guarantee that said companies will play by the rules and wouldn't shut down their places and go elsewhere. Intel is a special offender in this already.

So... let's crucify them all because some of them, under some circumstances had to change their plans. Got it

 

[Smartcom5]

So... let's crucify them all because some of them, under some circumstances had to change their plans. Got it

I didn't tried to argue that extreme. But if Intel wants to spent only like +14B only under the condition that at least another +6–8B are already secured in subsidies, after that management … Seems pretty arrogant, right?

 

[stimpy88]

Are you referring to China or Russia?
Because "CCCP" is how "USSR" is spelled in cyrillic.

I'm not so sure about Russia taking over Taiwan...

But I got too many Cs in there, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

clean and true argumentation.
despite of that. since yesterday the global tax of 15% will come. G20 nations met in Venice. the negotiations will go on in fall.

Now lets see the G20 enforce tax collection efforts.

 

[plastiscɧ]

Now lets see the G20 enforce tax collection efforts.

130 out of 190 countries are currently participating.
Janet Yellen, FED, spoke of a mechanism that cannot be undermined if a country such as Ireland, for example, does not currently cooperate.

But more details will be presented only in the fall.

 

[mechtech]

That's just semiconductor business on a nutshell, South Korea per example was reported to plan to do a massive $450 billion investment on chips over the next decade which likely includes lots of tax breaks and subsidies.

Operating a foundry is expensive and europe taxes climates probably don't help(relative to east asian countries who will happily give a lot to you).

well

"This is likely to be separate from the company's ongoing investments in Ireland."

Ireland tends to be a tax haven for corporations..........

 

[plastiscɧ]

Ireland tends to be a tax haven for corporations..........

130 out of 190 countries are currently participating.
Janet Yellen, FED, spoke of a mechanism that cannot be undermined if a country such as Ireland, for example, does not currently cooperate.

Global Tax of 15%:
We will see some development according to this in the future i guess.