Intel Core i9-12900K Allegedly Beats AMD Ryzen 9 5950X at Cinebench R20

[yeeeeman]

those gracemont cores are as fast as skylake cores, in fact they are streamlined skylake cores with hyperthreading removed and smaller decoder, allowing it to nearly be the size of 1/4 th of the golden cove cores
that's impressive having small cores with single core performance of a 10900k is nothing short of amazing

Yeah, maybe also shorten a bit the pipeline since you won't clock these at 5Ghz and you get even more performance thanks to lower penalty on misprediction.
It all adds up and makes and a lot of sense to use smaller cores also, that is, IF you can manage running all of them (big/small) in tandem with good efficiency.

 

[Camm]

Personally I'm more interested to see what sustained performance is, all well and good to have all those cores firing at once, but is the total thermal/power envelope exceeded after 20 seconds and it all power gates back?

 

[freeagent]

If it’s true it’s good to see Intel back in the game.

Catch you boys at the lake.. Alder Lake

 

[ZoneDymo]

Lol at all the massive watt posts. Who fucking cares. If you have the cash to buy one, and the required DDR5 plus a new high end board, you aren't going to be cooling it with a stock cooler or using a 500watt psu. I personally don't give a hoot about power usage any more, it's performance that matters.

You don't buy a ferrari and whine cos it only does 8mpg

its not about the bills to pay, its about the achievement not being so great when it consumes twice the power to reach that position.

 

[z1n0x]

AVX512 benchmarks, lolz

 

[pavle]

It was high time wintel beat ricer, though still not beating it in multicore and still with (very) high TDP. It's 14nm experience all over again, with smaller cores!!11

 

[z1n0x]

That ST score is suspect, bigtime.

 

[watzupken]

Intel have made a spec when it comes to power draw. At stock the CPU will throttle after a timeout (up to 56 sec). If you disable this power limit, then you are running the CPU overclocked and will void the warranty and reduce the product lifespan.
Running the CPU stock is no problem for cooling, and is what "all" of you should do (unless you're intentionally overclocking). Unfortunately not all reviewers have enough knowledge to run CPUs completely at stock when comparing.

I am not too sure about this though. Intel sells the K series as the overclocking series and charges a premium for it. If one cannot run it overclocked or sustained, that kind of defeats the purpose no? Of course if we overdo it and cause the chip to be damaged due to too much power or heat, that is another story and is common sense.

Also, I don't think that reviewers are not knowledgeable enough to run the CPUs at stock. This Intel chips' behaviour is nothing new at this point in time. So any reviewer that does not know this, is really odd. The thing is you need to determine what is the reviewer trying to achieve here. Does he/she want to show their viewers, the full capability by means of unlocking the sustained clock speed, or does he/she want to show you performance strictly at stock?

High end CPU's will have a high power draw, what do you people want?

While this is factual, I think it is more of a power vs performance, rather than just looking at power in silo. Looking forward to see what Alder Lake can do as there is no point comparing Intel's 14nm products with AMD's Zen 3 since the latter is using a superior node.

 

[Metroid]

Lisa said next amd cpu will be at least 15-20% faster. So expect very close to 800 on single thread too.

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

641+15%(from new cache)=737 vs 810...AMD lost in single so sure with more of 10%. Only from ecological point maybe red will be more green than blue

Reports, including ones by this very website, have already stated that Zen4 IPC increase is 29%. You add the vCache into that, benefits from the 5nm node, a 100-200mhz frequency bump and Zen4 could easily see 35%+ core for core performance increase over Zen3. When you consider that, this Alder lake leak isn't that impressive. Why are Intel fanboys already celebrating a "victory" when the huge IPC increase of Zen4 has been well reported for some time? Are they just ignoring that or are they uninformed? Granted, nothing is absolutely confirmed, but comparing an unproven rumor (this report) to another unproven rumor (Zen4 29% IPC increase from several different sources so arguably a better rumor) is fair game.

Let's not forget that Intel's R&D budget is literally over 684% larger than AMD's and therefore Intel SHOULD be crushing AMD. If Alder lake is better than Zen4, which based on preliminary reports, I don't think it will be, that would be the LEAST Intel should be accomplishing considering their $13.56 Billion R&D budget vs AMD's $1.98 Billion budget.

 

[Makaveli]

Thats why they rushed and showed the v-cache because they know they.ll be destroyed performance wize

Don't you have anything better to do with your time than troll based on a rumor?

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Reports, including ones by this very website, have already stated that Zen4 IPC increase is 29%. You add the vCache into that, benefits from the 5nm node, a 100-200mhz frequency bump and Zen4 could easily see 35%+ core for core performance increase over Zen3. When you consider that, this Alder lake leak isn't that impressive. Why are Intel fanboys already celebrating a "victory" when the huge IPC increase of Zen4 has been well reported for some time? Are they just ignoring that or are they uninformed? Granted, nothing is absolutely confirmed, but comparing an unproven rumor (this report) to another unproven rumor (Zen4 29% IPC increase from several different sources so arguably a better rumor) is fair game.

Let's not forget that Intel's R&D budget is literally over 684% larger than AMD's and therefore Intel SHOULD be crushing AMD. If Alder lake is better than Zen4, which based on preliminary reports, I don't think it will be, that would be the LEAST Intel should be accomplishing considering their $13.56 Billion R&D budget vs AMD's $1.98 Billion budget.

And you're celebrating Zen 4 IPC increase on nothing more than speculation, zero hard proof, pot kettle?

 

[Bobweadababyitsaboy]

Just wait until the spectre and meltdown microcode is installed. It will slow back down

 

[docnorth]

Didn't you mean Hawaii?

Lol, at least those R9s were higher end GPUs.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

Hopefully this is close to reality, as we need some competition, at the moment Intel's offering is pathetic topping at 8 cores.

 

[btarunr]

Raichu says it might be 200W+ in full turbo mode which aint that bad if it's as quick as it seems.
View attachment 209070

PL2 value is 228 W. So load power could be 10900K-like. The clincher here will be idle and lightweight use power-draw, because if Lakefield is anything to go by, Intel will use power-gating to put the P-cores to sleep, and Gracemonts will run the show, which means laptop-like power-draw.

 

[Punkenjoy]

Well i still need to wait for actual game results to see how it perform but that is indeed very interesting. But the CB single thread score do not exactly reflect to gaming performance sadly. But that is indeed very interesting for content producer.

If that is true, there are 2 scenario, and for some reason, i think the worst one will be the one that happen.

Scenario 1. Intel release it, price it like the 5950x forcing AMD to reduce it's price
Scenario 2. Intel release it, price it 20-30% more expensive than the 5950x so people pay for the extra performance



My hope aren't super high that it's not Scenario 2. Then AMD could release Zen 4 with similiar or better performance at similiar or higher price... It look like since few years, the only way to get more performance is to pay more.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

@op ,Good it's not competition if there is no one competing.

 

[GhostRyder]

I mean, cool if its true as that would be a great improvement especially in the single thread category.

However, its just speculation at this point without seeing some scores out in the wild. Especially seeing that this is that massive a jump over their own 11th gen I will be a little skeptical till some leaked benchmarks start coming out.

 

[Chrispy_]

If those numbers are legit, that's pretty promising.

There are tons of potential power/clock/TVB/AVX reasons why these numbers might be misleading and not representative of a real CB20 score, but with nothing other than rumour to go on, we can at least hope.

I know people want AMD to win because they're the underdog with the tiny budget but as consumers all that should really matter is fierce competition that makes both companies try harder for us.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Unless intel did some kind of architectural ass pull magic on 12th gen to gain that much IPC then I don't see this score as real unless they used LN2 or something. 8 big cores + 8 small cores beating full fat 16 Ryzen cores seems like a stretch. But I really hope this is real because AMD really needs some competition to stop them turning into the new Intel.

I doubt its an ass pull and rather that rocketlake was hammered by its tiny cache that was necessitated by 14nm. Being 10nm superfin alderlake will have the cache needed to really stretch out the new cove core whatever design it uses. Tigerlake was a lot more impressive then rocket lake was.

That being said I could see intel maybe matching the 5900x in performance. Beating a 16 core 5950x when 8 of intels 16 cores are sub skylake in performance seems most unlikely.

 

[ZoneDymo]

Don't you have anything better to do with your time than troll based on a rumor?

Just report and move on, it's up to the mods to decide if they want that sort of stuff soiling the website

 

[Ravenas]

Are these wafers coming out of Arizona plant?

 

[efikkan]

I am not too sure about this though. Intel sells the K series as the overclocking series and charges a premium for it. If one cannot run it overclocked or sustained, that kind of defeats the purpose no? Of course if we overdo it and cause the chip to be damaged due to too much power or heat, that is another story and is common sense.

There are many types of overclocking, and several of them can be done on any of these models.
K-series used to determine whether the CPU was unlocked or not, but today it usually also affects sustained power draw and throttling. With the Skylake family and beyond, the non-K models above 4 cores are practically a waste of money, as they throttle too much. This wasn't the case back in the Haswell or Sandy Bridge days, where the real-world differences between K and non-K models were minor.

Also, I don't think that reviewers are not knowledgeable enough to run the CPUs at stock. This Intel chips' behaviour is nothing new at this point in time. So any reviewer that does not know this, is really odd. The thing is you need to determine what is the reviewer trying to achieve here. Does he/she want to show their viewers, the full capability by means of unlocking the sustained clock speed, or does he/she want to show you performance strictly at stock?

Whether it's due to knowledge, or if it's just a conscious choice to not benchmark stock, is up for debate. Just judging by how little most non-TPU reviews knows about memory speeds I'm leaing towards the first option.
But regardless, any reference comparison is useless unless it's stock. It's fine to have a separate comparison of OC vs. OC, but unfortunately most CPU reviews today are actually portraying their mild OC as "stock" and then have subsection of OC in addition. Very commonly we see overclocked IF/memory on AMD samples and removed power limits on Intel systems, but neither of these are actually stock, and is useless for a fair comparison.

 

[tabascosauz]

Stupid rumors will always be stupid. If it's a QS/ES running R20, show me a screenshot of it running R20.

That said, for once, I am a little worried about the power draw. 200W+ was never an issue for CML because of thicker IHS/die thinning/just a very good thermal design. 5GHz all-core on a midrange U12S isn't far fetched at all. RKL took a step backwards in a number of ways, so it ran like an inferno.

But Alder Lake is on 10ESF, and will mark the first time that Intel experiences N7FF-esque thermal/power density on the desktop.

Under an air cooler and at stock power limits, a 7nm 5900X/5950X runs hottest with high single core (actually 2-core) boost where it scales to 4.9-5.0GHz @ 1.4V+ and 15-20W power per-core - not during MT. However, once you get to about 180-200W power draw, MT temps begin to overtake ST temps as the freq, volts and power per-core comes up.

So more than anything, it's still the thermal density as Zen 3 cores only begin spiking/acting erratically on temps when power per-core exceeds about 13W. Same deal with the 5800X, only reason the 5900X/5950X avoid that fate is by keeping per-core power down in MT (below 10W at stock), whereas 5800X is somewhere around 14W per core, above the 13W threshold.

Will be interesting to see how Intel tackles this problem, since most of the power should be going to the Golden Cove cores, of which there are only 8 to share the power budget. Being monolithic is a boon, but it changes little at 7nm/ESF density.