Epic Games Store Keeps Losing Money, Expected Unprofitable Until 2027, Even with a Massive $500 Million Investment Behind It

[lexluthermiester]

closing the launcher literally cancels the download.

No, it doesn't. When was the last time you updated the Epic Client? They changed that a long time ago.

EDIT:
I take that back, you are right. I still does that. Just tried it and it still cancels.

 

[renz496]

the way i see it majority of consumer simply like monopoly. when there is new competitor try to bring in more competition they are being hated. sometimes for a very simple matter like needing to install another launcher.

 

[Colddecked]

With how they linked/tied Unreal Engine to EGS, I see Epic's grand scheme more as a trojan horse for devs. The more people they get on EGS + more devs they pay for exclusivity deals, the more they can pitch to Mr Dev, hey why aren't you using UE, why don't you try it out?

 

[skizzo]

No, it doesn't. When was the last time you updated the Epic Client? They changed that a long time ago.

couple months ago to download Assassin's Creed Valhalla. there are still people bitching about this on other forums too when I investigated at the time, again, months ago now. when I close the launcher, if I am downloading, I get a pop up warning from the launcher

 

[lexluthermiester]

couple months ago to download Assassin's Creed Valhalla. there are still people bitching about this on other forums too when I investigated at the time, again, months ago now. when I close the launcher, if I am downloading, I get a pop up warning from the launcher

See edit above. I just tried it out of curiousity and it prompted about cancelling the install. I thought they'd fixed that problem..

 

[ppn]

Well I hope my games will not go down under with the store. i never got the time to play them games. even the gta5. hope they stay afloat so i can finish my games.

 

[Selaya]

... have you ever used a phone that isn't an iPhone? Android allows you to sideload apps or install third-party app stores. Phones are general-purpose computers precisely because they are made for general purpose use - their elevator pitch is "communication, internet access + various apps and services in your pocket". There is no way to formulate the concept of "smartphone" without accepting that it's a general purpose device. Contrary to game consoles, for example, which are made, sold, and used overwhelmingly to play games (a specific purpose, not a general one), even if they also allow for some other functions ((voice) chat, streaming, some web access, etc.).

[ ... ]

Can you not do that on an iPhone too (Developer Tools or w/e it's called)?
In any case, the last phone I (actually) used was an old Nokia running Symbian. I have no desire to deal with these contemporary tracking devices. I still have some of them unfortunately because for some occasions not having any phone at all is far more suspicious than having one bereft of any personal data. Anyways, last time I tried Android felt just as shit as iOS; I wasn't even able to update an app without fucking signing in to Google. That's when I decided to put it away again since I don't care, in any case.

 

[neatfeatguy]

I don't see why folks care what platform is "better". Use what you like. Don't like one? Sure, you probably have your reasons. I have mine.

I don't like Steam since they broke the crap out of the UI nearly 2 years ago. For almost a year I kept trying it and I kept having issues so I just said F'em. I haven't purchased anything off Steam since then because of it. Which means I don't bother with other game key sites since a lot of them are just Steam keys.....in fact I can't remember the name of the other game key sites anymore. I keep Steam installed because I do chat with a few folks on it and I do play a couple of games off of it from time to time, but I won't support them anymore with any kind of purchase.

GoG - I've probably purchased a couple dozen games over the past 2 years on GoG. No issues with downloading from their site or galaxy. I like I can just click the .exe and a game runs without any launcher needing to load up. It's just my go to for game purchases now.

If Ubisoft has a game I'm interested in, I pick it up on their Uplay.

I don't use Origin - I still have it because they used to offer free games, should the moment strike me to install one of the free games I got off it. But last time I logged into Origin was 3+ years ago. I haven't purchased an EA game for years. Honestly, I think Crysis 2 or maybe ME3 (physical copy games) was the last EA game I got because that required Origin to link the game.

EGS - I've grabbed some free games that I've always wanted to play, but I have yet to play them. I forget that EGS has free games every week and I'm sure I've missed a handful of other games I would have been interested in. I haven't purchased anything off EGS and I don't really ever see myself doing so.

Amazon - I don't think they have any kind of launcher, but I have purchased 3 or 4 digital games off them 9-10 years ago. Downloaded the games and they ran without any kind of launcher requirement....I know one of them specifically was Spore, which is an okay game.

Honestly, the most recent gaming I've been doing is from my old physical games. I spent a handful of days creating .iso copies from the discs, finding out work arounds to get some of these games to run on Windows 10 (a few games just won't work), tracking down all the game patches I have burned on DVDs and getting them going. Right now I'm hopping between Diablo and Diablo 2 and slowly making my way through Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay. Doing all this made me remember how much I actually miss this kind of interaction for getting a game running - installing from a disc, finding a spot to download patches or finding "fixes" to get the game working correctly on your system.

 

[awesomesauce]

Epic have good product
sad they have bad management and maketing decision

going after valve or apple was a very bad idea and now they shoot themself in the foot

clearly started with fortnite overhyped game and i am happy now it gone the drain

 

[skizzo]

See edit above. I just tried it out of curiousity and it prompted about cancelling the install. I thought they'd fixed that problem..

there are some conflicting forums posts around about this (I think they have the same confusion like what just happened here, mixing up pause/resume works OK as long as the Epic Game Launcher is kept open, but if it is closes/exits you get a pop up warning saying the download progress will be lost). but thanks for double checking, we're on the same page now lol! we're talking about standard features here, these aren't even bells and whistles anymore. there are workarounds, but you gotta be the type of user who is ok with getting your hands dirty. us techpowerup nerds are ok with that for the most part but the avg gamer who doesn't really know about PCs is going to be frustrated I bet....hell I'm frustrated about it and I know how to do the workarounds even lol

 

[BSim500]

This will all consider game libraries are kept on separate disks from the main OS disk! Ever reinstall Windows and then reload your Steam library? That takes like what, couple mins to go to settings and link up the drives you have your games on. You can be playing games again in minutes! Now, ever reinstall Windows and then try to reload your Epic Games library? Despite literally every other launcher of the like having this option of "locate installed games" as a standard feature, Epic has for whatever reason not implemented this. What this means is each time you setup a new OS you have to redownload the entire game.

For many games on this list you don't need to re-download anything after installing Windows (assuming as you said they were stored on a separate game partition / drive that wasn't deleted after reinstalling Windows) because you don't even need the launcher to start the games in the first place. Just start them directly / create a shortcut link to its .exe. Same for most pre-installed GOG games that also continue to just work post Windows reinstall without needing to install Galaxy to find them.

 

[95Viper]

Keep it on topic, please, people.

 

[Ahhzz]

For many games on this list you don't need to re-download anything after installing Windows (assuming as you said they were stored on a separate game partition / drive that wasn't deleted after reinstalling Windows) because you don't even need the launcher to start the games in the first place. Just start them directly / create a shortcut link to its .exe. Same for most pre-installed GOG games that also continue to just work post Windows reinstall without needing to install Galaxy to find them.

That's an excellent list, thanks

I know I'm contributing to this loss, as I've not purchased a single item, but have about 2 dozen games in my library...

 

[yotano211]

Uplay has the best optimized launcher/smoothness/library/points RPG system for in-game rewards you can't buy with real money, makes me WANT TO DO ACHIEVEMENTS (unlike Steam which I just ignore achievements there)
Steam has best social/UI (I love Small Mode)
Origin is a resource hog and a shame on the industry
Epic Games gives me free games so I'm cool with that
GoG let's me snuggle at night in comfort in-case there is an apocalypse, as long as I have solar panels and DRM free I will still be ok. Thanks for the snuggles GoG.
Bethesda Launcher was initially required for Gwent card game, so I said **** Gwent card game and went back to
Magic the Gathering Arena launcher is ok, sure is a cash machine of a game though, makes Gaben look like he works for the Red Cross
Battle Net launcher is just a mess, news thrown in your face whether you want it or not, not friendly to end user at all, shame almost as bad as Origin, but only almost.

@lexluthermiester you in particular will like the GoG line

I like the epic line , free stuff. I even make some money from epic.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I have actually purchased games on EGS. For instance I got Days Gone there instead of Steam. Why? Because it can be completely played, beginning to end from just the .exe without ever opening EGS. (Thanks to @metalfiber for that heads up he gave me). That’s a big win, since I didn’t want to wait a year or more for the possibility it would come to GOG. Many of the games hosted on there are like that. Some aren’t. Just do your research ahead of time.

But either way, if a game is on there I want and not elsewhere, I’m going to get it, and have, because none of us is guarranteed tomorrow. As I get older it is much more obvious that waiting to enjoy something till later just on principle is not the smart play. So yeah, I’m going to play now what I can, even if it means Epic’s store.

 

[Valantar]

Speaking from experience, yes, that is exactly how I had to do it. I absolutely had to do the force close. I tried it several ways, ie, just "X"ing the window, or as Epic documented, to right click the tray icon and select quit....even that didn't work. Found some forum post saying do force close and that worked for me. It's a mess as this suggests the same methods may not even work for all

That's weird. I have done so on several systems in the past couple of years, and the procedure has been the same every time. No force closes, no issues beyond the ever so slightly annoying and time consuming one-game-at-a-time start-pause-rename-resume cycle. As I said above, Steam's method is clearly better (though I really wish they allowed for moving or removing the default install folder), but EGS is still perfectly fine.

Seems you're right about downloads cancelling when the launcher is quit though. I checked, and I also get prompted when quitting the launcher. Don't think I've ever come across that - I don't generally reboot my PC often, and don't see a reason to close launchers other than that, so I guess that explains that.

Can you not do that on an iPhone too (Developer Tools or w/e it's called)?
In any case, the last phone I (actually) used was an old Nokia running Symbian. I have no desire to deal with these contemporary tracking devices. I still have some of them unfortunately because for some occasions not having any phone at all is far more suspicious than having one bereft of any personal data. Anyways, last time I tried Android felt just as shit as iOS; I wasn't even able to update an app without fucking signing in to Google. That's when I decided to put it away again since I don't care, in any case.

Nope. To use developer tools on an iPhone you need to be a registered developer, which is non-trivial. On Android, you can download an .apk file for a competing app store from the web, and will be prompted to disable the relevant security features when trying to install it if you haven't already done so (and can then re-enable them with no issues). That's a world of difference. Also, kind of weird of you to speak as if you're an authority on the nature of smartphones (i.e. declaring that they aren't general-purpose computers) when you freely admit to refuse any association with them and haven't used one for years? Doesn't that speak to a certain lack of familiarity with the topic at hand?

Also, not being able to update an app without signing in to Google is ... kind of obvious when the default app store (i.e. package manager) is Google's. They require an account to use the app store. If that's a problem, find an alternative app store that provides the same apps, and use that.

 

[AusWolf]

You're still buying into exclusivity deals being "shady"? I just don't see that. They're common. Ubiquitous. Just because Steam has been a monopolist and never had to actually call their exclusivity by name doesn't mean they haven't had exclusive distribution rights to a vast array of games. Pre-EGS, how many games were only on Steam, and not GOG or the other previous general storefronts? Just because Epic went and made it explicit doesn't make it meaningfully different. As for EGS being another "generic online storefront" - isn't that precisely what we'd want? Stores that sell games, compete in pricing and the like, with real competition?

Steam was the first online store / game launcher that made a real impact on gaming. There was no exclusivity - they were simply the first. If you open a new store, you won't sell literally everything from day one. You have to build your supplier list to grow. Just because GOG was small enough to be unnoticed by game publishers for a while doesn't mean games were Steam-exclusive. Nobody forbade publishers to look for alternatives - alternatives simply didn't exist.

As for your list, here's the continuation:
You want more storefronts because competition has the potential to breed innovation and lower prices, providing benefits to customers, while monopolism does the opposite.

There's no competition if games are exclusive to one store or another - only more bloatware on your PC to be able to play them.

 

[xorbe]

They can't run a website for less than 1/2 billion dollars?

 

[AusWolf]

the way i see it majority of consumer simply like monopoly. when there is new competitor try to bring in more competition they are being hated. sometimes for a very simple matter like needing to install another launcher.

Exactly. Why should I have to install something I don't need? If Epic made their launcher attractive, there wouldn't be any fuss over it.

 

[Selaya]

[ ... ]

Nope. To use developer tools on an iPhone you need to be a registered developer, which is non-trivial. On Android, you can download an .apk file for a competing app store from the web, and will be prompted to disable the relevant security features when trying to install it if you haven't already done so (and can then re-enable them with no issues). That's a world of difference. Also, kind of weird of you to speak as if you're an authority on the nature of smartphones (i.e. declaring that they aren't general-purpose computers) when you freely admit to refuse any association with them and haven't used one for years? Doesn't that speak to a certain lack of familiarity with the topic at hand?

Also, not being able to update an app without signing in to Google is ... kind of obvious when the default app store (i.e. package manager) is Google's. They require an account to use the app store. If that's a problem, find an alternative app store that provides the same apps, and use that.

Yeah, about that.
I have tried some before, and they were all kinda lacking (either completely missing apps or providing versions out of date). And good luck trying to download .apks by themselves.
Anyways, just because I don't use phones doesn't mean that I am completely ignorant as to what's happening over there, and imho it's not pretty.

As for the developer tools, I can definitely recall the incident in which fuckbook was (ab)using them to sniff on people's data - but wasn't that them abusing their developer license? There was something about it, as it was definitely circumvening the AppStore as their 'app' would never have cleared the oversight.

In any case, I disagree with the notion of shit like app stores in general (one of the reasons amongst many why I disagree with the entire phone ecosystem) - even the last bastion of freedom, the PC seems to be falling at long last - see Windows 10, or more on point here - Steam and the EGS.
One of the reasons why I haven't bought a game from anywhere but GOG in a good while now, they do not force a shitty launcher or anything on me. But I digress.

 

[NotHereMan]

Lot of comments have already been made so early, so a little late to implementing this complaint. Has anyone in the comments mentioned the idea of using launchers to play games can be viewed as detrimental? I prefer cataloging my own library. Don't need Steam or anything of the sort. I know things have changed since 20+ years ago, and the idea of DRM is debatable, but would be nice that I didn't need to run more than one launcher("Store front") to play my games, or at least not go down the rabbit hole to learn how I can run games offline. Not to mention having a launcher that can launch games from other launchers.

 

[Vayra86]

The suit isn't about Apple's 30% App Store cut, but their monopoly on in-app purchases (and in part their unequal treatment of various types of apps in this regard - there are significant exemptions) and their further 30% cut of these. IMO, that monopoly can't possibly be legally defensible, seeing how smartphones are general-purpose computers (unlike, say, consoles). Even locking them down to a single source of applications is deeply problematic.

Of course it’s about the 30% cut. Epic want to run their own app store within their apps specifically to cut out Apple, which goes against their contract.

I think you’ll find that Apple’s contract is defensible too, as often what’s legally possible isn’t morally right. And is this immoral? That’s debatable.

Spot on I think, if anything its clear a debate on that appstore role is needed and long overdue. The market consolidates around a few players and they get to define the game. That is wrong.

 

[Dave65]

Funny how some people prefer Steam monopoly.

Yes, and they probably never know why except to follow the crowd.. I for one asked the question many times why the hate for EPIC but never got a straight answer.. I like it and will keep using it for free and non free games..

 

[Valantar]

Steam was the first online store / game launcher that made a real impact on gaming. There was no exclusivity - they were simply the first. If you open a new store, you won't sell literally everything from day one. You have to build your supplier list to grow. Just because GOG was small enough to be unnoticed by game publishers for a while doesn't mean games were Steam-exclusive. Nobody forbade publishers to look for alternatives - alternatives simply didn't exist.


There's no competition if games are exclusive to one store or another - only more bloatware on your PC to be able to play them.

I'm not talking about the early years of Steam. I'm talking about how literally zero viable alternatives to Steam have arrived before GOG managed to claw a space for themselves (partially through preferential access to CDPR titles, partially through their DRM-free schtick), and then Epic actually trying to present a mainstream alternative. But there have absolutely been alternatives - they've just all failed. Every single one has either shut down or morphed into a Steam key storefront. Until GOG and EGS, that is.

As for your last sentence: are you at all considering the context of user adoption and the force of habit? If Steam has a hundred million user install base and Epic has zero, what real competition do you have if Epic just walks up and says "hey, we sell some of the same stuff you do"? That's not how the world works. Exclusivity deals are a perfectly viable and above-board method for bringing new users on board. In this case, the main "argument" against this seen from most users is an irrational and vaguely expressed hatred towards Epic of the audacity of making something not be available on Steam! How dare they? *gasp*

Seriously, if we want to break Steam's de facto monopoly - which is still going strong, and which does absolutely nothing to benefit gamers - then we need powerful actors with fat wallets to fight them. That's the only way, unless you want the FTC to step in and split up Valve. Which would also be perfectly fine IMO, even if it would be a legal mess like no other.

Yeah, about that.
I have tried some before, and they were all kinda lacking (either completely missing apps or providing versions out of date). And good luck trying to download .apks by themselves.
Anyways, just because I don't use phones doesn't mean that I am completely ignorant as to what's happening over there, and imho it's not pretty.

As for the developer tools, I can definitely recall the incident in which fuckbook was (ab)using them to sniff on people's data - but wasn't that them abusing their developer license? There was something about it, as it was definitely circumvening the AppStore as their 'app' would never have cleared the oversight.

In any case, I disagree with the notion of shit like app stores in general (one of the reasons amongst many why I disagree with the entire phone ecosystem) - even the last bastion of freedom, the PC seems to be falling at long last - see Windows 10, or more on point here - Steam and the EGS.
One of the reasons why I haven't bought a game from anywhere but GOG in a good while now, they do not force a shitty launcher or anything on me. But I digress.

Well, sure, you're entirely welcome and entitled to your opinions. But when those opinions are factually wrong, and you are corrected on that, it stands to reason to maybe take a step back from that stance? Smartphones are general-purpose computers, and the only instance in which they aren't is if their OS vendors go to great lengths to lock them down in order to force business through their portals.

As for "good luck downloading .apks by themselves" - that really isn't hard. Here's the Amazon App store in .apk form: link. You can install that on any Android phone by enabling installing apps from third party sources. And you can then (or with any other third party app store, of which there are quite a few) install and update any number of apps without needing a google account. I never said that downloading individual application .apks was a viable solution, though there are sites offering that too if that's what you want. That of course means no auto-updates or anything like that.

Regarding your second paragraph: what are you talking about? You brought up developer tools as an option for sideloading apps on iOS. I showed why it's not equivalent to doing so on Android. Whether or not someone has abused said tools for some other purpose is entirely irrelevant. You still need a developer account to enable them on iOS, and you still don't on Android.

And again, you're entirely entitled to not liking app stores and stuff like that, but I really don't see how that has any relevance whatsoever to whether smartphones are general-purpose computers or not. If anything, what you're arguing for is that OEMs have no right to lock down their devices to a single app store - which is precisely my point.

 

[Deleted member 177333]

I'm shocked. Never created an account at Epic, and never will. Greatly prefer GOG first, and Steam 2nd.