EU Commission Pushing Forward with Unified Electronics Charger Standard and Unbundling of Chargers

[Selaya]

But that still wouldn't eliminate the problem (well, eventually I guess) since the average Joe would by no means be able to tell whether their USB charging port complies to the new standard, or not ...

 

[KarymidoN]

apple will probab go Portless before adopting USB-C on the Iphones.

 

[elghinnarisa]

I still don't like USB-C, i have nothing but problems with it in every device that uses it. The ports are petite and plugging large or heavy cables in to them is horrible, like trying to use my USB-C alt mode for display port on my laptop. Because running a longer DP cable out of a tiny USB-C is a great idea, it constantly moves ever so slightly, even just by the cables own springiness which is enough to disconnect.
The sockets themself seems to be pure weak sauce on several devices I used. They are very susceptible to dust or dirt but they are ridiculously hard to clean.
I don't know how many dussins of cables i been through trying to find a semi-long charging cable for my phones.

 

[Tardian]

The EU is proposing:

• A harmonised charging port for electronic devices: USB-C will be the common port. This will allow consumers to charge their devices with the same USB-C charger, regardless of the device brand.
• Harmonised fast charging technology will help prevent that different producers unjustifiably limit the charging speed and will help to ensure that charging speed is the same when using any compatible charger for a device.
• Unbundling the sale of a charger from the sale of the electronic device: consumers will be able to purchase a new electronic device without a new charger. This will limit the number of unwanted chargers purchased or left unused. Reducing production and disposal of new chargers is estimated to reduce the amount of electronic waste by almost a thousand tonnes' yearly.
• Improved information for consumers: producers will need to provide relevant information about charging performance, including information on the power required by the device and if it supports fast charging. This will make it easier for consumers to see if their existing chargers meet the requirements of their new device or help them to select a compatible charger. Combined with the other measures, this would help consumers limit the number of new chargers purchased and help them save €250 million a year on unnecessary charger purchases.

Pulling the plug on consumer frustration and e-waste: Commission proposes a common charger for electronic devices

Today, the Commission takes an important step against e-waste and consumer inconvenience, caused by the prevalence of different, incompatible chargers for electronic devices.

ec.europa.eu

Europe Wants All Devices (Including iPhones) Using USB-C for Charging

I agree, I moved to USB-C in 2016 with the Nexus 5X. My wife is the only one with a Micro USB device. USB-C is blissful if you aren’t ham-fisted with the cord like one of my sons.

The European Commission also wants chargers to be sold separately.

IMO devices should all be on the charger at meal times and overnight. I have a large box of cables and chargers which really annoys my wife. E-waste should be kept to a minimum. I live in Australia so the cost of getting the device to me may be determined by bulk and weight. I am happy to buy a charger that will charge all the devices in the house.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

I'd like to say, Hats Off to @TheLostSwede for continuing to follow up on this thread. Its helped me understand better about USB.

Also, I recent received an Apple IPad (10.2in., 8th Gen). It came with the wall charger with the USB C socket, and the cord is USB-C to Lightning. So Mix and Match is alive and well...

 

[AsRock]

Maybe some one can think out of the box and make some thing like this, although these did come with adapters with various voltages.

It's not impossible it just everyone wants you to buy one adapter for one item bs.

 

[ThrashZone]

Maybe some one can think out of the box and make some thing like this, although these did come with adapters with various voltages.

It's not impossible it just everyone wants you to buy one adapter for one item bs.

View attachment 218010

Hi,
Yep just returned a set with a adjustable voltage power adapter didn't work.

 

[Tardian]

Maybe some one can think out of the box and make some thing like this, although these did come with adapters with various voltages.

It's not impossible it just everyone wants you to buy one adapter for one item bs.

View attachment 218010

My 90-year-old aunt who still drives and travels might find your adapter kit a reason to give me a call. An ill wind indeed ...

 

[RedBear]

USB Power Delivery is already an established standard, but as I mentioned, it has four major and many minor revisions and nowhere does the EU Commission point out which one they're planning to implement.

The Commission has prepared a proposal with an annex, in those documents they're proposing EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021 for devices that draw more than 5 volts / 3 amperes / 15 watts. I believe that this standard is identical to USB PD Revision 3.0, Version 2, at least according to a website that sells the specification.

 

[Tardian]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441040877229690880

It also looks like the EU went all-in on this, so a manufacturer can’t get away with having a USB-C ‘adapter’ for the device vs having an actual USB-C port

Apple can't just include a Lightning to USB-C adapter with products sold in the EU.

 

[Arpeegee]

Maybe some one can think out of the box and make some thing like this, although these did come with adapters with various voltages.

It's not impossible it just everyone wants you to buy one adapter for one item bs.

View attachment 218010

I have a set of these for the various electronics I own at my house. Who knows, 20 years from now people will look at these like the old cell phone connectors of the 90's/early 2000's and think "What were engineers thinking?".

 

[Chrispy_]

USB-C's not perfect but it's better than the other two.

 

[turbogear]

For me personally, I would love if we had on standard.
I am tired of switching adapters on the cable on my charger every day multiple times because of the different standards.
I have privately Samsung S21+ with USB-C, a work iPhone 8 plus with lightning connector, and a work Bluetooth headset with micro-usb for Microsoft Teams calls.
At least good thing is that there are cables avaible with 3 heads supporting each of these three standards in one.

Multi USB Kabel, Universal Ladekabel [1.5M] 3 in 1 Schnellladekabel Mehrfach Ladekabel mit Micro USB Typ C Lightning Kabel für iPhone, Android Samsung Galaxy S20 S10 S9, Huawei P30 P20, Oneplus, LG : Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör

Multi USB Kabel, Universal Ladekabel [1.5M] 3 in 1 Schnellladekabel Mehrfach Ladekabel mit Micro USB Typ C Lightning Kabel für iPhone, Android Samsung Galaxy S20 S10 S9, Huawei P30 P20, Oneplus, LG : Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör

www.amazon.de

 

[TheLostSwede]

I have to admit that I had missed one aspect of USB PD 3.0 and that's the fact that USB-C is the only allowed connector type, so it looks like the EU is going for this as the minimum spec, which is at least something.

https://www.renesas.com/us/en/support/engineer-school/usb-power-delivery-02-fast-role-swap-programmable-power-supply

Maybe some one can think out of the box and make some thing like this, although these did come with adapters with various voltages.

It's not impossible it just everyone wants you to buy one adapter for one item bs.

View attachment 218010

You can already get those kind of things with USB-C in the other end. The only problem is that many notebooks are 19V or 18.5V or...
Making it variable would have to be in the cable or plugs then, which isn't that easy, although it is a rather small step-down we're talking here.
So as long as you have a 15V or 20V notebook, it would work just fine.

The Commission has prepared a proposal with an annex, in those documents they're proposing EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021 for devices that draw more than 5 volts / 3 amperes / 15 watts. I believe that this standard is identical to USB PD Revision 3.0, Version 2, at least according to a website that sells the specification.

Reading that, suggests that device makers can get around the whole USB-C thing, by using 5V/3A for the charging, as that falls outside of the scope of the new law. Hmmm...
I don't really think a lot of companies would though, as now everyone is expecting fast charging on their phones. That said, most Bluetooth headsets don't even seem to charge much beyond 5V/1.5A.

 

[Tardian]

Some companies are thinking 15Wtf?

 

[RedBear]

Reading that, suggests that device makers can get around the whole USB-C thing, by using 5V/3A for the charging, as that falls outside of the scope of the new law. Hmmm...
I don't really think a lot of companies would though, as now everyone is expecting fast charging on their phones. That said, most Bluetooth headsets don't even seem to charge much beyond 5V/1.5A.

I think they can only skip compliance with the USB PD standard if they use charging lower than 5V/3A/15w, the Type C connector is mandatory for every device, additionally compatibility with (basic, non-PD) Type C cables as described in EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021 is required for devices with charging lower than 60 watts (it's the first paragraph of part 1 in the Annex); apparently the only real way of skipping Type C is omitting wired charging altogether, i.e. using only wireless charging, it's actually pretty much explicit in the annex where it says "in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging".

 

[Ferrum Master]

Most users don't understand a crap what are they talking here.

PD or not PD, let it be quick, fast, pump charging whatever it may be...

Adaptors are smart, they negotiate and can have various protocols and can adapt them to the chipset they charge ie like QUALCOMM or MediaTek. A modern charger recognizes all types and negotiates with the end device. Case closed and stop babbling about it. It already is like that for years. If still use an ancient or crap china charger from 1 pound store blame yourself.

The whole talk is about cable and mechanical interface. And that needs to be standardized and let it be USB Type C and no other... it is a good connector proven itself in the industry where I actually work.

Kudos for the EU initiative. Apple can choke themselves on their proprietary standards.

 

[Vayra86]

Unfortunately USB-C is a minefield for consumers to select proper cables from. Too many connectivity and power standards with far too many subpar cables available on market.

Chicken egg as are the problems laid out in the story.

You gotta start somewhere. Also, there is this XKCD and it is a universal truth:

Most users don't understand a crap what are they talking here.

PD or not PD, let it be quick, fast, pump charging whatever it may be...

Adaptors are smart, they negotiate and can have various protocols and can adapt them to the chipset they charge ie like QUALCOMM or MediaTek. A modern charger recognizes all types and negotiates with the end device. Case closed and stop babbling about it. It already is like that for years. If still use an ancient or crap china charger from 1 pound store blame yourself.

The whole talk is about cable and mechanical interface. And that needs to be standardized and let it be USB Type C and no other... it is a good connector proven itself in the industry where I actually work.

Kudos for the EU initiative. Apple can choke themselves on their proprietary standards.

Amen.

You can already get those kind of things with USB-C in the other end. The only problem is that many notebooks are 19V or 18.5V or...
Making it variable would have to be in the cable or plugs then, which isn't that easy, although it is a rather small step-down we're talking here.
So as long as you have a 15V or 20V notebook, it would work just fine.

Not sure if its the same thing, but I can already plug adapters in Dell notebooks and they will say it runs at reduced power mode because the adapter is under capacity. But it runs, and it charges.

 

[Valantar]

While I agree that USB-C can be a mess, overall I don't see the issue. The benefit of a universal charger standard is interoperability. This does clearly not scale in every direction - a 5V2A phone charger is never going to effectively charge a laptop. But the laptop will also tell you if the charger you've plugged in is insufficient. But we have to be able to expect even technologically incompetent users to understand basic concepts like "bigger things need bigger chargers". This is really not complicated.

Benefits of this:
- Your laptop charger can charge anything - tablet, phone, headphones, power bank, whatever
- Your phone charger can charge all of those except the laptop (and possibly a large tablet)
- You no longer need proprietary chargers - the PD standard ensures interoperability
- Universal availability of replacement chargers - who here remembers the nightmare of finding a compatible replacement charger for barrel plug laptops? You need the correct voltage, wattage, and plug - and forget about carrying it forward to your next device.
- Forwards compatibility is ensured as long as power draw doesn't increase
- Forwards compatibility effectively reduces e-waste

Drawbacks of this:
- Old chargers are made obsolete - but this was already the case. The change is that the chain of obsolescence now stops, or at least slows down dramatically. Current USB-C chargers are obviously not made obsolete.
- Peripherals based on proprietary standard (Lightning) are made obsolete. This is not the fault of the new standard, but of their proprietary nature.
- Potential confusion due to the wide range of power delivery through "the same" connector and chargers - this is a non-issue with modern charging circuitry, which can negotiate voltages and amperages and tell the user if something is amiss. It requires marking cables with their capabilities, but that's already common, and store personell can explain to those who don't understand this. If you buy the wrong cable online and it only charges slowly, return it and get one that works.

As I see it, the drawbacks here were already in existence or are negligible in light of the potential improvements. I do lament the loss of 12V in the PD standard, but in my experience most third party PD chargers still implement it (at least my Innergie (Delta) and Baseus chargers do, plus my one PD power bank. My PowerCloud desktop charger doesn't, which is a particular shame as an easy 12V output on the desk is useful for a lot of stuff, but ... meh. It's fine.

As for the higher voltage additions to the standard - what is the problem there? They're additions. The chargers will all be backwards compatible with lower voltage devices. The devices will all be compatible with lower voltage chargers - though they will of course charge slowly. If you're buying a new charger for your $2000 gaming laptop and think a 65W charger can replace the stock 240+W brick ... that's not a problem with the standard. That's PEBKAC.

The EU backing a standard with the force of law is one of the few ways of avoiding the oft-cited XKCD scenario. There might still be 15 competing standards, but now one of them is mandatory. And if there are multiple standards using the same connector, cross-compatibility is obviously equally mandatory.

 

[Ferrum Master]

While I agree that USB-C can be a mess, overall I don't see the issue.

Well... even with older USB, if the device sees a bad charger, data lines are off and ID pin lifted, it will normally backdrop to 0,5A current... like any PC can handle that's the legacy current mode, to not damage any PC port protected with half amp fuse.

Basically there already mechanisms since PC dino age. It is all just about the mechanical interface. No worries about the adapter itself. Device will trigger the appropriate mode the charger is capable of automatically.

We can indulge itself into specific gimmicks into each charging protocol and even how they overlap like in 9V mode to have some combability in between chipsets, but there's no need for that. The responsibility goes to the end device engineering to understand various protocols and act accordingly. There are no problems so far.

Even the new good class of China gallium nitride chargers based chargers are smart enough to negotiate with any device, including Apple. Are you sitting no old 1A charger stock everyone?

Regarding the high current devices there should be no difference. The certified Qualcomm QC 4,0 and newer offers 20 mV increments. It basically acts like an expensive bench power supply, you could not imagine 10 years ago. It can adapt to any needs, just write a proper code for it. Chargers these days are very sophisticated.

 

[Valantar]

Well... even with older USB, if the device sees a bad charger, data lines are off and ID pin lifted, it will normally backdrop to 0,5A current... like any PC can handle that's the legacy current mode, to not damage any PC port protected with half amp fuse.

Basically there already mechanisms since PC dino age. It all just about the mechanical interface. No worries about the adapter itself. Device will trigger the appropriate mode the charger is capable of automatically.

We can indulge itself into specific gimmicks into each charging protocol and even how they overlap like in 9V mode to have some combability in between chipsets, but there's no need for that. The responsibility goes to the end device engineering to understand various protocols and act accordingly. There are no problems so far.

Even the new good class of China gallium nitride chargers based chargers are smart enough to negotiate with any device, including Apple. Are you sitting no old 1A charger stock everyone?

Regarding the high current devices there should be no difference. The certified Qualcomm QC 4,0 and newer offers 20 mV increments. It basically acts like an expensive bench power supply, you could not imagine 10 years ago. It can adapt to any needs, just write a proper code for it. Chargers these days are very sophisticated.

Yep, and that's exactly how things ought to be. It's fascinating to see how certain parts of tech enthusiast circles are very reticent towards implementing even remotely modern computer technology into certain parts. You have people arguing that CPUs shouldn't boost because it makes TDPs complicated/silly, and you have people arguing that chargers should be simple because ... apparently they can't be trusted? The former seem to not have noticed how boost gives us 1.5-2x more CPU power (though just not always), and the latter seem to have forgotten the hell that was the proprietary charger jungle of the '00s, or how if you plugged the wrong barrel plug charger into the wrong thing (and remember, there were no generally accepted voltage or even polarity standards for those!), you'd end up with one of three outcomes: a dead charger, a dead device, or both. With USB-C? You'll get an error message. If people think the latter is somehow worse, they must have forgotten how bad things used to be.

 

[TheLostSwede]

While I agree that USB-C can be a mess, overall I don't see the issue. The benefit of a universal charger standard is interoperability. This does clearly not scale in every direction - a 5V2A phone charger is never going to effectively charge a laptop. But the laptop will also tell you if the charger you've plugged in is insufficient. But we have to be able to expect even technologically incompetent users to understand basic concepts like "bigger things need bigger chargers". This is really not complicated.

Benefits of this:
- Your laptop charger can charge anything - tablet, phone, headphones, power bank, whatever
- Your phone charger can charge all of those except the laptop (and possibly a large tablet)
- You no longer need proprietary chargers - the PD standard ensures interoperability
- Universal availability of replacement chargers - who here remembers the nightmare of finding a compatible replacement charger for barrel plug laptops? You need the correct voltage, wattage, and plug - and forget about carrying it forward to your next device.
- Forwards compatibility is ensured as long as power draw doesn't increase
- Forwards compatibility effectively reduces e-waste

Drawbacks of this:
- Old chargers are made obsolete - but this was already the case. The change is that the chain of obsolescence now stops, or at least slows down dramatically. Current USB-C chargers are obviously not made obsolete.
- Peripherals based on proprietary standard (Lightning) are made obsolete. This is not the fault of the new standard, but of their proprietary nature.
- Potential confusion due to the wide range of power delivery through "the same" connector and chargers - this is a non-issue with modern charging circuitry, which can negotiate voltages and amperages and tell the user if something is amiss. It requires marking cables with their capabilities, but that's already common, and store personell can explain to those who don't understand this. If you buy the wrong cable online and it only charges slowly, return it and get one that works.

As I see it, the drawbacks here were already in existence or are negligible in light of the potential improvements. I do lament the loss of 12V in the PD standard, but in my experience most third party PD chargers still implement it (at least my Innergie (Delta) and Baseus chargers do, plus my one PD power bank. My PowerCloud desktop charger doesn't, which is a particular shame as an easy 12V output on the desk is useful for a lot of stuff, but ... meh. It's fine.

As for the higher voltage additions to the standard - what is the problem there? They're additions. The chargers will all be backwards compatible with lower voltage devices. The devices will all be compatible with lower voltage chargers - though they will of course charge slowly. If you're buying a new charger for your $2000 gaming laptop and think a 65W charger can replace the stock 240+W brick ... that's not a problem with the standard. That's PEBKAC.

The EU backing a standard with the force of law is one of the few ways of avoiding the oft-cited XKCD scenario. There might still be 15 competing standards, but now one of them is mandatory. And if there are multiple standards using the same connector, cross-compatibility is obviously equally mandatory.

Sadly it seems like a lot of people don't understand that the physical size of a charger correlates to how much power you can get out of it and this is why so many things come with anemic charger or power adapters, as people don't like seeing the big bulky ones, or maybe it is that they don't like tripping over them? GaN based technology is helping with that to some degree at least.

I don't think I said the PD 3.1 standard was a problem, my issue was that we're not sure which spec the EU will settle on and ideally it should be PD 3.1, rather than PD 3.0.

The fact that your chargers do that, doesn't mean all chargers do that, since some of the proprietary specs were never very widely adopted, mostly thinking MTK here with their charge pump.
Also, not all devices tell you that the charger is too anemic, yes it seems most laptops do that, but as I mentioned in a comment here, my phone still says it's charging when plugged in to a 5V/500mA USB port, except in reality, it's not. This is something the device makers need to improve upon, as it's one of those things that a lot of people aren't going to pay attention to. Admittedly there shouldn't be any USB-C with that low power output, but 900mA is still within spec, even though it's not part of the USB PD spec. No need to go as extreme as laptops for this to be confusing for people.

I really do hope things will get better, but considering how little the average consumer cares about the finer details of these tech "issues" is telling me that we're still going to have people complaining that their chargers don't work properly once USB-C has replaced all the other connectors.

 

[Ferrum Master]

mostly thinking MTK here with their charge pump.

Any Sony QC3.0 charger also has Pump Charge capability... as Sony was and maybe is one of the best MTK users and implement it correctly either phones or flagship Bravia TV's.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Any Sony QC3.0 charger also has Pump Charge capability... as Sony was and maybe is one of the best MTK users and implement it correctly either phones or flagship Bravia TV's.

Maybe we'll see these companies drop their proprietary charging standards in favour of PD, but it's unlikely, especially when we're now seeing phones that charge at 100W+ using crazy high Voltages but low current.

 

[Ferrum Master]

May we'll see these companies drop their proprietary charging standards in favour of PD, but it's unlikely, especially when we're now seeing phones that charge at 100W+ using crazy high Voltages but low current.

Crazy high voltages are needed to mitigate crap long cables also. The Huawei approach was stupid having like 5V 4A chargers, the voltage sag is so big and it does not work like that. Everyone had seen this with their Raspberries also. Each manufacturer implements it differently, even within the same protocol and it should be like that.

Also the lithium charging tech asks for such voltages, those things have evolved too and new techniques emerge. On paper it may seem high, like for a phone 25W mode or even 45W, but it utilizes it for a short moment within thermal envelope and usually only in the start... like form 0% to 50%, then it will tame down. The 100W is for dual battery setups like in folds, for mobile devices only as a design goal, but it ain't needed really. Well that's another story, if it says like 100W charging... it isn't a linear thing, just a peak and for laptops it also includes the power budget for external devices too as while powered it will draw the current from the charger. So you have to multiply capability with each external port you have. But we have the devices already in the wild. Even with older PD protocols you can tailor the Power Management code to act as it should.