Intel Disables DirectX 12 API Loading on Haswell Processors

[ExcuseMeWtf]

Let's hope there are no such vulnerabilities in ADL, that would mean some disabling too, and would eat away at performance gains of 12 series...

 

[lexluthermiester]

Let's hope there are no such vulnerabilities in ADL, that would mean some disabling too, and would eat away at performance gains of 12 series...

It's very doubtful. Haswell was of a time before the all the speculation & side channel type vulnerabilities. Alderlake has been engineered to remove that kind of attack as a possibility.

 

[AugeK]

In my personal opinion this comes very handy to Intel as now all pc based on these processors can't run Windows 11.
AFAIK DX12 is a prerequisite to win11...

 

[lexluthermiester]

In my personal opinion this comes very handy to Intel as now all pc based on these processors can't run Windows 11.
AFAIK DX12 is a prerequisite to win11...

TPM & SecureBoot can be bypassed and DX12 is only being disabled on the Haswell IGP. This has no effect on dedicated GPU's from NVidia & AMD running on Haswell CPU's.

So let's not over-reach or over-react people.

 

[Aretak]

As an Emulation enthusiast, I can tell you that no emulators need DX12. There are a few that can use it, but such is just fluff.

You seem pretty clueless for an "enthusiast", but then I know you're just running damage control. I'd enjoy seeing you try to weasel word an explanation for how Xenia doesn't need DX12, given it's the only maintained backend it has.

 

[freeagent]

I upgraded from an x5690 to a 3770K in 2017. Literally a few months after that they started rolling out spectre/meltdown patches as well as updating microcode a few times. I watched the GFlops melt away. Hopefully we don’t have to go through that again.

You seem pretty clueless for an "enthusiast", but then I know you're just a fanboy running damage control. I'd enjoy seeing you try to weasel word an explanation for how Xenia doesn't need DX12, given it's the only maintained backend it has.

That’s a little harsh don’t you think? Be nice.

 

[Jism]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure this is consequential for many. However, removing a 'marketed feature' rather than 'fixing' it, just because it is an old (but not EOL, mind you) product may invite legal action. They're probably counting on the fact there are near 0 'damages' from retroactively removing these products' DX12 capability.

But they are suggesting to downgrade drivers. Dont get it why they simply dont fix it.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'd enjoy seeing you try to weasel word an explanation for how Xenia doesn't need DX12, given it's the only maintained backend it has.

Read, LEARN.

Quickstart

Xbox 360 Emulator Research Project. Contribute to xenia-project/xenia development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Minimum:​

• OS: Windows 7+ x64 (Linux/macOS not nativelysupported)
  • Windows <10 support is limited. Don't expect anything to work.
  • Runs on Linux with Wine using Vulkan.
• CPU: 64-bit x86 processor with AVX(2) support
  • You can check with CPU-Z
• GPU: Direct3D 12-compatible or Vulkan-compatible GPU from this list
  • You can check with GPU-Z
  • Direct3D 12 will only work on Windows 10 due to D3D12on7 and vkd3d not being supported.
  • GPUs without ROV (rasterizer-ordered view) / fragment shader interlocksupport will perform worse and possibly have more graphical issues. Integrated GPUs will also generally provide frame rates too low for comfortable playing.
    • AMD GPUs also fall under this due to Xenia triggering driver bugs causing crashes.
• RAM: 4GB
• 2017/2019 x64 Visual C++ Redistributable

You were saying what now?

 

[Ahhzz]

Read, LEARN.

and post with deliberation, intelligence, and respect. Or you won't. This is directed to all.

 

[mechtech]

I think most individuals with these probably have dedicated graphics so it's a moot point for them.

For large corps that probably have 1000's of machines with these running the IGP, then I don't know.

 

[lexluthermiester]

For large corps that probably have 1000's of machines with these running the IGP, then I don't know.

Yeah, but those companies are not playing games on the Haswell IGPs either so it's still a moot point.

 

[mechtech]

Yeah, but those companies are not playing games on the Haswell IGPs either so it's still a moot point.

What about solitaire

 

[Flanker]

Quickstart

Xbox 360 Emulator Research Project. Contribute to xenia-project/xenia development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Correct me if I'm wrong, looks like haswell gpu doesn't support vulkan on windows. No idea how many people this will actually affect though
Intel Graphics Technology - Wikipedia

 

[lexluthermiester]

Correct me if I'm wrong, looks like haswell gpu doesn't support vulkan on windows. No idea how many people this will actually affect though
Intel Graphics Technology - Wikipedia
View attachment 223982

Good find! Didn't know that. Still, the point was that the loss of DX12 on Haswell isn't really a problem as anyone wanting to run DX12 enabled programs will be using a dedicated GPU and not the Haswell IGP as performance from that IGP is lack-luster at best. And the above comments about emulation are a perfect example, Xenia is not an emulator that would run well(if at all) on Haswell IGP. No one is going to do it, so the comment from Aretak was not based on merit or factual information.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

You seem pretty clueless for an "enthusiast", but then I know you're just a fanboy running damage control. I'd enjoy seeing you try to weasel word an explanation for how Xenia doesn't need DX12, given it's the only maintained backend it has.

Can you please show people using haswel''s integrated GPU to run emulated xbox 360 games, of which the intel chip was uanble to play the native ports at anything approaching playable settings?

zero emulators that are actually PLAYABLE on the haswell GPU need DX12, and anything else will need more GPU power then haswell provides. Even the GT 1030 is a huge jump upwards. Most videos on youtube of Xenia show the use of a RTX 2060, and it is not always able to maintain even 30 FPS.

 

[LabRat 891]

Yes, it is. How else would you suggest they deal with the problem? Do you really expect Intel to reegineer a CPU series that is many generations old? No, and no one should expect them too. As stated above, the Haswell IGP is incapable of running DX12 titles at playable quality so disabling the API is an entirely valid and acceptable solution to the security problems at play.

Haswell was brought out of EOL during this 'shortage'. Therefore, for business and industry, at least some of these CPUs are still sold and supported some places.

Intel has just set the precedent that they can and will remove and disable Active product features. That is the disturbing part.
I don't expect them to reengineer a product, but I would've expected them to provide microcode updates and workarounds.

What this implies, is Intel can continue to 'play fast and loose' with security, and simply start disabling those exploitable features post-purchase. Imagine a small-med business that has invested tens of thousands of dollars in Xeons or Xe products, and Intel several years later just decides to disable a key feature 'in the name of security', while the product is still Active.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Haswell was brought out of EOL during this 'shortage'. Therefore, for business and industry, at least some of these CPUs are still sold and supported some places.

Intel has just set the precedent that they can and will remove and disable Active product features. That is the disturbing part.
I don't expect them to reengineer a product, but I would've expected them to provide microcode updates and workarounds.

What this implies, is Intel can continue to 'play fast and loose' with security, and simply start disabling those exploitable features post-purchase. Imagine a small-med business that has invested tens of thousands of dollars in Xeons or Xe products, and Intel several years later just decides to disable a key feature 'in the name of security', while the product is still Active.

The main point is several years, when i'd be inclined to say whatever.

 

[Vya Domus]

Yes, it is. How else would you suggest they deal with the problem? Do you really expect Intel to reegineer a CPU series that is many generations old? No, and no one should expect them too. As stated above, the Haswell IGP is incapable of running DX12 titles at playable quality so disabling the API is an entirely valid and acceptable solution to the security problems at play.

A "fix", implies there was something wrong with the product and the issue was now fixed, restoring any functionality that was affected. Disabling a feature can be describes as anything but a fix, if anything the product is now even more broken since it's missing a functionality that it had before.

Of course you can't actually play DX12 titles properly on these iGPUs anyway and no one is going to cry their eyes out for this but it's still pretty ridiculous to call something a "fix" when it clearly isn't.

 

[AlwaysHope]

Gotta thank the hackers who found these exploits, in an ironic way they are doing ALL of us a service.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Hopefully they don't regress later models with this thing they just found out about?!

 

[lexluthermiester]

Haswell was brought out of EOL during this 'shortage'.

Oh, how so?(I'm calling BS on this because it's total nonsense.)

A "fix", implies there was something wrong with the product and the issue was now fixed, restoring any functionality that was affected. Disabling a feature can be describes as anything but a fix, if anything the product is now even more broken since it's missing a functionality that it had before.

Of course you can't actually play DX12 titles properly on these iGPUs anyway and no one is going to cry their eyes out for this but it's still pretty ridiculous to call something a "fix" when it clearly isn't.

Once again, Intel can NOT be expected to re-engineer a product that is EOL and many generations old. If disabling the software API which is being used as the attack vector is the only viable option, it IS a valid solution.

Just because that solution does not meet the satisfaction of a few people who fail to properly understand the problem does not make it any less a valid solution.

 

[AlwaysHope]

Once again, Intel can NOT be expected to re-engineer a product that is EOL and many generations old. If disabling the software API which is being used as the attack vector is the only viable option, it IS a valid solution.

Just because that solution does not meet the satisfaction of a few people who fail to properly understand problem does not make it any less a valid solution.

One of the best comments on here to put the whole issue into perspective.

 

[Mussels]

Intel discovers PC's have greater security if you don't turn them on, suggests disconnecting power supplies

 

[Vya Domus]

Oh, how so?(I'm calling BS on this because it's total nonsense.)


Once again, Intel can NOT be expected to re-engineer a product that is EOL and many generations old. If disabling the software API which is being used as the attack vector is the only viable option, it IS a valid solution.

Just because that solution does not meet the satisfaction of a few people who fail to properly understand the problem does not make it any less a valid solution.

Not. A. Fix.

End of story, you can argue all you want.

 

[AusWolf]

After extensive research, I've found that removing your CPU from your motherboard results in a fix against all vulnerabilities. Malicious code cannot run on a CPU that's not present.

Yes, it is. How else would you suggest they deal with the problem? Do you really expect Intel to reegineer a CPU series that is many generations old? No, and no one should expect them too. As stated above, the Haswell IGP is incapable of running DX12 titles at playable quality so disabling the API is an entirely valid and acceptable solution to the security problems at play.

I have to disagree with that one. The term "fix" means making something that's broken work again. You wouldn't fix a leaking toilet by permanently disconnecting it from your water supply, would you?