LG and Samsung Said to Launch Smaller Sized OLED Displays in 2022

[TheLostSwede]

Rumours are starting to circulate about LG and Samsung's OLED plans for 2022 and we might get a first preview come CES in January. For those hoping to get an OLED computer screen at a reasonable price it seems like you might have to wait a bit longer, unless you'd be ok with using a TV as your computer display.

LG is said to be launching a 42-inch version of its C series of OLED TVs and it should retain or improve on the features of its current C series. The model name should be OLED42C2xxx and it's expected to retail for less than the current 48-inch CX and C1 TVs. There will obviously be larger sizes available too, including the current 48-inch size, which is also said to be available in the lower cost and lower spec A2 series. As for the exact spec, we'll have to wait until CES to find out, but HDMI 2.1, HDMI-VRR and possibly either or both of AMD's FreeSync Premium Pro and Nvidia's G-Sync compatible might be part of the package.



Samsung is on the other hand said to be working on a 34-inch QD-OLED computer monitor, alongside 55 and 65-inch QD-OLED TVs. Even less is known about these products, but all the products have apparently already gone into mass production and are expected to be on display at CES. Note that QD-OLED is not the same as QLED, although both display types are using Quantum Dot technology.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site

 

[bug]

Ah, Samsung... Still putting lipstick on a pig, because they missed the OLED boat.

 

[Vayra86]

Please correct the title of this article @TheLostSwede Because Samsung does not produce real OLED. Its QLED.

Self emissive versus backlit, let's keep it straight... The quantum dot does not emit light, and the black level is not zero.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Please correct the title of this article @TheLostSwede Because Samsung does not produce real OLED. Its QLED.

Self emissive versus backlit, let's keep it straight... The quantum dot does not emit light.

Sorry, but it is correct, they're going to start making QD-OLED in addition to its QLED screens.

Ah, Samsung... Still putting lipstick on a pig, because they missed the OLED boat.

Again, QD-OLED is OLED screens, not QLED.

QD-OLED displays | OLED-Info

OLED displays are made from organic emitter materials - and are gaining in popularity as these next-generation displays offer excellent image quality and novel form factors.

www.oled-info.com

 

[Vayra86]

They still have a blue light source (effectively backlight) that they now call 'self emissive'

They cannot completely disable pixels. Its likely that Samsung will again produce a version of QD displays with higher black levels than anything else in OLED land to achieve the contrast ratio, which is also not 'infinite'.

But... I'll concede, technically they use an OLED 'layer'

Let's enjoy those gray blacks again

 

[Garrus]

They still have a blue light source (effectively backlight) that they now call 'self emissive'

They cannot completely disable pixels. Its likely that Samsung will again produce a version of QD displays with higher black levels than anything else in OLED land to achieve the contrast ratio, which is also not 'infinite'.

But... I'll concede, technically they use an OLED 'layer'

Let's enjoy those gray blacks again

How many zones will the OLED backlight have? One per pixel? 1000? 10000? If we don't know, we don't really know much.

 

[TheLostSwede]

They still have a blue light source (effectively backlight) that they now call 'self emissive'

They cannot completely disable pixels. Its likely that Samsung will again produce a version of QD displays with higher black levels than anything else in OLED land to achieve the contrast ratio, which is also not 'infinite'.

But... I'll concede, technically they use an OLED 'layer'

Let's enjoy those gray blacks again

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the actual displays look like.
But you're right, it's not the same as their AMOLED phone displays.

How many zones will the OLED backlight have? One per pixel? 1000? 10000? If we don't know, we don't really know much.

It's said to be per pixel.

What is QD-OLED? Samsung's next-gen TV display explained

Samsung's hybrid displays promise game-changing improvements

www.tomsguide.com

 

[Chomiq]

Ah, Samsung... Still putting lipstick on a pig, because they missed the OLED boat.

Not really:

In QD-OLEDs, a stack of blue OLED material is used to illuminate pixels that contain red and green quantum dots.

What this brings to the table is true RGB panel with higher brightness and better wide gamut coverage at a (theoretically) lower cost.

 

[TheUn4seen]

That's how you create returning customers, OLEDs have planned obsolescence built right into the panel, manufacturers don't even have to put electrolytic caps near the hottest parts of the power supply to ensure the product barely survives the warranty period. Great for sustained revenue stream.

 

[bug]

Not really:


What this brings to the table is true RGB panel with higher brightness and better wide gamut coverage at a (theoretically) lower cost.

Well, that's the lipstick: take a (relatively) simple OLED screen and add back some layers. That's going to work wonders for reliability and costs.
And the problems this supposedly solves? OLED already covers the color space you need for HDR (Rec.2020), going beyond that only distorts content. And brightness? I keep mine at 60/100 in a pretty bright room. Unless you're watching TV on a beach or something, OLED is already bright enough. (Fwiw, I have a CX, C1 is supposedly already brighter.)

In short, Samsung's solution is still more complex, while solving problems no one has.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, this is way better than QLED. But it won't be better than OLED.

 

[londiste]

They still have a blue light source (effectively backlight) that they now call 'self emissive'

They cannot completely disable pixels. Its likely that Samsung will again produce a version of QD displays with higher black levels than anything else in OLED land to achieve the contrast ratio, which is also not 'infinite'.

QLED is not the same as QD-OLED. QD-OLED is OLED and works with per-pixel control.

LG's OLEDs (WOLED) are also effectively per-pixel backlight with color filters based on Kodak's white OLED tech. Samsung is replicating the same idea of per-pixel backlight scheme with blue OLED plus quantum dot filters to get the red and blue to spectrum.

How many zones will the OLED backlight have? One per pixel? 1000? 10000? If we don't know, we don't really know much.

Per pixel. Otherwise calling it OLED would probably prove... costly?

What this brings to the table is true RGB panel with higher brightness and better wide gamut coverage at a (theoretically) lower cost.

Nope. Still not true RGB panel. Samsung tried that back in 2012 or so when first OLED screens were introduced. Samsung's RGB OLED TV was said to cost practically 3x more than LG's WOLED along with the problem of different subpixel aging. WOLED's downside is ~30% lost brightness due to color filters. By all indications same will apply to QD-OLED.

 

[bug]

Please correct the title of this article @TheLostSwede Because Samsung does not produce real OLED. Its QLED.

Samsung has been making OLEDs for over a decade. But only for phones

Self emissive versus backlit, let's keep it straight... The quantum dot does not emit light, and the black level is not zero.

The backlight is OLED, it will turn off.
But I really hate it when people say OLED's black level is zero. The OLED itself can emit 0 nits, but the blackness of the panel is still dictated by the environment. Unless watching in a dark room, the black level will be whatever light the screen reflects back to you. It's still deep black and OLED will do dark shades in a way a LCD will never dream of. But 0 nits is not achieved by OLED on its own.

 

[londiste]

In short, Samsung's solution is still more complex, while solving problems no one has.

It does solve a problem. RGB OLED is so far not feasible for large screens, at least not TV size. LG white OLED is patented and there are not that many ways to get similar per-pixel backlight thing going. Some alternative ideas have been going around but none of them really viable.

 

[WhoDecidedThat]

LG and Samsung Said to Launch Smaller Sized OLED Displays in 2022

LG is said to be launching a 42-inch.....

In other news, we have 60 Hz 3840*2160 OLED notebook panels. Where are the 240 Hz 1920*1080 OLED panels for laptops?

 

[bug]

It says "smaller", not "small". 42" is smaller than 48".

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

How sweet would a 34" 3440x1440 120hz OLED be or a 38" 5120x2160 120hz (don't know if that'd have to be 100hz due to bandwidth limitations) or even just a 32" 3840x2160 120hz one... OLED entering in the 34" ultrawide market would hopefully drive the price of IPS/LED 34" Ultrawide, because as of now the only budget/value ones with 3440x1440 resolution and 100hz+ refresh rates are all VA

 

[Vayra86]

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the actual displays look like.
But you're right, it's not the same as their AMOLED phone displays.


It's said to be per pixel.

What is QD-OLED? Samsung's next-gen TV display explained

Samsung's hybrid displays promise game-changing improvements

www.tomsguide.com

My interpretation is that they can turn pixels off at the quantum dot level. The QD is not a self-emissive diode.
And the OLED panel behind it is 'always on'. Effectively a backlight. Note how even the most optimistic articles on it speak of an OLED 'layer'

Therefore, your black level is going to be limited to the capability of the Quantum Dot. Therefore, Samsung cannot claim OLED black levels here.

We've seen with the Quantum Dot implementation in LCD, that it does not create true blacks.

Put simply: Samsung is still marketing its quantum dot tech as an OLED tech, blatantly lying:

BUT: that does not mean its a bad technology, don't get me wrong. Its great Samsung is doing its own R&D and it bears fruit. Its just too bad they lie so much. But in the end we might eventually have to thank Samsung, and NOT LG, for bringing OLED-like capabilities to monitors.

 

[londiste]

My interpretation is that they can turn pixels off at the quantum dot level.

QD-OLED is not a quantum dot display. AFAIK while theory is there and research is ongoing they really have not been able to build a proper one yet, even for show.
QD-OLED - like quantum dot infused filters - use the quantum dots' ability to convert light to red or green.

Therefore, your black level is going to be limited to the capability of the Quantum Dot. Therefore, Samsung cannot claim OLED black levels here.

No. Black level is going to be limited to what the blue OLED at the back is able to do and it is capable of turning off. It is an OLED and has black levels to match.

 

[TheLostSwede]

In other news, we have 60 Hz 3840*2160 OLED notebook panels. Where are the 240 Hz 1920*1080 OLED panels for laptops?

I doubt there will be any, it's a slowly dying resolution.
Asus is doing 2880x1800 on its 14-inch notebooks and they're 90Hz.

 

[Vayra86]

QD-OLED is not a quantum dot display. AFAIK while theory is there and research is ongoing they really have not been able to build a proper one yet, even for show.
QD-OLED - like quantum dot infused filters - use the quantum dots' ability to convert light to red or green.
No. Black level is going to be limited to what the blue OLED at the back is able to do and it is capable of turning off. It is an OLED and has black levels to match.

You say that, but...

How QLED works

Quantum dot technology uses microscopic crystals that have the curious property of glowing under certain wavelengths of light, emitting their own light at certain wavelengths. They also function as semiconductors, so they can be individually turned on and off.

From

What is QD-OLED? Samsung's next-gen TV display explained

Samsung's hybrid displays promise game-changing improvements

www.tomsguide.com

Now combine that info with Samsung's own picture saying there is simply a large blue LED plane behind the QD layer, and their own claim of a black level not zero, plus a contrast ratio in the hundred thousand instead of 1:millions. Let's wait and see what's really happening here .... I wouldn't be too adamant this is true OLED just yet. I could also be very wrong, I realize that. Its shrouded in the typical Samsung Mist. The same Mist where MicroLED was going to change the world and where they missed the OLED boat, while shareholders want money.

 

[bug]

You say that, but...

How QLED works

Quantum dot technology uses microscopic crystals that have the curious property of glowing under certain wavelengths of light, emitting their own light at certain wavelengths. They also function as semiconductors, so they can be individually turned on and off.

From

What is QD-OLED? Samsung's next-gen TV display explained

Samsung's hybrid displays promise game-changing improvements

www.tomsguide.com

They still require a backlight, so blacks will be dictated by how much of that they can block. Being able to turn QDs off individually is not the same as blocking light 100%.
Also, if you don't turn off the backlight, the power draw will be higher than OLED.

 

[Vayra86]

They still require a backlight, so blacks will be dictated by how much of that they can block. Being able to turn QDs off individually is not the same as blocking light 100%.
Also, if you don't turn off the backlight, the power draw will be higher than OLED.

Exactly.

 

[londiste]

You say that, but...

How QLED works

Quantum dot technology uses microscopic crystals that have the curious property of glowing under certain wavelengths of light, emitting their own light at certain wavelengths. They also function as semiconductors, so they can be individually turned on and off.

From

What is QD-OLED? Samsung's next-gen TV display explained

Samsung's hybrid displays promise game-changing improvements

www.tomsguide.com

Now combine that info with Samsung's own picture saying there is simply a large blue LED plane behind the QD layer, and their own claim of a black level not zero, plus a contrast ratio in the hundred thousand instead of 1:millions. Let's wait and see what's really happening here .... I wouldn't be too adamant this is true OLED just yet. I could also be very wrong, I realize that. Its shrouded in the typical Samsung Mist. The same Mist where MicroLED was going to change the world and where they missed the OLED boat, while shareholders want money.

So they've changed the names of things again. LG threw a wrench in Samsungs naming plans with hijacking QNED and QD-OLED has meant several different things over time. If Samsung indeed are doing this with blue LED backlight and QD layer, then that is indeed going to be inferior to OLED. OLED name would sound more than a bit suspicious in that case though.

There are 3-4 different quantum dot based technologies that Samsung is working on or looking into and which one they are talking about varies.
- Quantum Dot display that uses quantum dots directly as emissive particles. This has not really gone anywhere (yet).
- The idea I thought QD-OLED is - and it was named like this at one point - blue OLED backlight with QD filter to eventually generate a white per-pixel controllable backlight, plus color filters on top.
- Blue LED plus QD filter for backlight which seems as @bug said above - solving a problem no one has. OK, there is merit in getting backlight with clean spectrum for better color accuracy but not sure how useful that is, especially in terms of TV panels.
- QD(-infused) color filters that QLED and higher end LG's use which is pure LED-backlight LCD but better color filter.

 

[Vayra86]

How sweet would a 34" 3440x1440 120hz OLED be or a 38" 5120x2160 120hz (don't know if that'd have to be 100hz due to bandwidth limitations) or even just a 32" 3840x2160 120hz one... OLED entering in the 34" ultrawide market would hopefully drive the price of IPS/LED 34" Ultrawide, because as of now the only budget/value ones with 3440x1440 resolution and 100hz+ refresh rates are all VA

Its an insta buy. Let's be honest lol

How many zones will the OLED backlight have? One per pixel? 1000? 10000? If we don't know, we don't really know much.

The zones are the Quantum Dots, in this implementation so that is per pixel effectively. We have no information on the capability of the blue backplane. We also don't know how well the quantum dot will block light. Quite well, given Samsung's projected black level - as in 20X better than VA which can easily hit 0.01 with decent brightness.

But, and that is the key here.... the black level rises along with the peak brightness. So this puts a totally different dynamic on 'brighter OLED', because just like Samsung's QD displays on QLED, they produce rather shitty blacks at high brightness. With a true self-emitting diode, you're not blocking black, its just an 'absence of light' from the emitter.


Its good to note however that the technology will most likely end other LCD problems, slow pixel response times, backlight bleed, or visible colouration in the corners, something my current Samsung QLED TV is now well known for... its honestly the worst TV I've ever looked at/used. When I see Samsung Display... I now tend to be very careful buying into BS.

 

[londiste]

The zones are the Quantum Dots, in this implementation so that is per pixel effectively.

I do not see how they could control individual quantum dots. QD is a strange small particle not something directly controllable like LED, OLED (or microLED). QD that emits red is ~5nm and QD that emits green is ~3nm. This could be controllable on pixel level though with LCD-like control matrix. It does seem more likely that QDs are not being controlled but the controlled parts are still LCD, better blacks being achieved by combination of cleaner spectrum backlight and color filters tuned to take advantage of that.

We will have to wait and see.