India is Trying to Win Over Intel

[TheLostSwede]

Remember that US$10 billion incentive India approved earlier this month? Well, it looks like India is planning on using at least some of that incentive to win over Intel, as the Indian Minister for IT and Electronics, Ashwini Vaishnaw welcomed Intel to India in a tweet the other day. Some news outlets seem to have taken this tweet as an agreement has already been struck, but this doesn't seem very likely, as Intel hasn't provided any kind of comment on the topic.

That said, the Indian incentive will pay for up to 50 percent of the cost of building a new fab, which we know isn't pocket change, considering that a cutting edge fab can easily cost in excess of US$10 billion. However, it seems highly unlikely that Intel would build a chip fab in India, based on the requirements for such a fab, not only in terms of logistics, but also when it comes to power and water supplies and least not a suitable labour force. What might happen is that Intel sets up something like a chip packaging plant there in the future, much like what it's planning to potentially do in Italy and that the company is expanding in Malaysia.


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[Frank_100]

Either American labor laws and environmental laws are worth defending or they should be taken of the books.

more on the economics of this subject:

The Market Ticker Error: Post Not Available

market-ticker.org

 

[de.das.dude]

That said, the Indian incentive will pay for up to 50 percent of the cost of building a new fab

where as us tax payers will be shown an amount that would be equal to 75% of the total costs thanks to the current govt clever middle class looting tactics.

I doubt intel will come here. Labour force isn't really great for manufacturing.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

where as us tax payers will be shown an amount that would be equal to 75% of the total costs thanks to the current govt clever middle class looting tactics.

I doubt intel will come here. Labour force isn't really great for manufacturing.

If what yousaid here is even partially true, I think India needs to land smaller fish to prove it can be trusted to big fish like Intel without labor problems.

 

[Space Lynx]

China told me Intel really likes getting on its knees, and even provides the lube for its facilities. India can't go wrong.

 

[Turmania]

My previous work, outsourced most of the software work to India. Mainly because the cost was less than half in Europe. And as usual work never finished in time as promised, or even satisfactory results and as well at all. In the end the company did spend more money to get the job done but at the expense of clients dismay as we were also late to deliver. In the end, boss closed the company....

 

[sepheronx]

Indias logistics is not very good. People say China was all cheap labor but the other major aspect China had was cheap and very defined logistics/infrastructure. Both of which doesn't exist in same extent in India

 

[qubit]

If India is to attract a company like Intel to invest big, it really needs to improve its infrastructure, as in roads, electricity, water supplies, sanitation etc.

I think it's getting better, but it will take a really long time to get to near where it should be.

 

[Space Lynx]

If India is to attrack a company like Intel to invest big, it really needs to improve its infrastructure, as in roads, electricity, water supplies, sanitation etc.

I think it's getting better, but it will take a really long time to get to near where it should be.

the truth of the matter is 3 billion humans live in a small (geographically speaking) region of the world. it's simply not sustainable. All it will take is one bad year of extreme weather for that entire region and you are looking at mass 1+ billion people displacement, the whole world going to shits over the 5 million displaced by Syria is going to look like childs play when that day comes.

 

[claes]

Weird how there’s a “no politics” rule on this forum with one exception.

I don’t even mean political bias, but this isn’t news, it’s not even a rumor… it’s just a charade that has no real impact on silicon manufacturing.

Sure, maybe something will come of it, but front page news, and these comments? Do better TPU.

 

[Exyvia]

My previous work, outsourced most of the software work to India. Mainly because the cost was less than half in Europe. And as usual work never finished in time as promised, or even satisfactory results and as well at all. In the end the company did spend more money to get the job done but at the expense of clients dismay as we were also late to deliver. In the end, boss closed the company....

Actually happening with the place I work, management outsourced data entry to India and around 50% of the entries have errors which need them to re-visited - sometimes multiple times back and forth despite having the sheet saying what to put into the data boxes. Probably get what they paid for lol that's what I'm thinking.

 

[qubit]

the truth of the matter is 3 billion humans live in a small (geographically speaking) region of the world. it's simply not sustainable. All it will take is one bad year of extreme weather for that entire region and you are looking at mass 1+ billion people displacement, the whole world going to shits over the 5 million displaced by Syria is going to look like childs play when that day comes.

Yes, that's a significant factor, but they could still improve the infrastructure of that country by proper investment, reducing corruption (good luck) and, of course, zillions of dollars. Anyway, I don't want this to drift off into politics here although the subject of the article is inherently political.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Indias logistics is not very good. People say China was all cheap labor but the other major aspect China had was cheap and very defined logistics/infrastructure. Both of which doesn't exist in same extent in India

Nonsense. Indian industry is very capable and they have a very willing workforce. India would be a great option for Intel and just about anyone else.

 

[Fluffmeister]

$10 billion isn't much, but when I get to watch countless charity adverts of the poor children in India having to collect crap to earn a pittance, it's less Brexit... more how much of a bung is Intel willing to take.

Charity starts at home, they can f-off.

 

[Jism]

Intel is just shopping around. Which country can give us the best subside for installing a plant?

 

[TheLostSwede]

My previous work, outsourced most of the software work to India. Mainly because the cost was less than half in Europe. And as usual work never finished in time as promised, or even satisfactory results and as well at all. In the end the company did spend more money to get the job done but at the expense of clients dismay as we were also late to deliver. In the end, boss closed the company....

That's unfortunate. I used to work for a company that was owned by an Indian and with about 95% is the staff based in India by the time I left. I had a very different experience, but I guess there's a big difference outsourcing work and doing it in house. We had some very competent software developers, but sometimes they needed outside input to understand what they were supposed to do. I have a much more positive attitude towards Indian software developers compared to PRC ones, as the latter claim they can do it and then just keep coming up with excuses as to why is not finished and in the end you get nothing...
I'm still friends with the guy that was in charge of the software team at my old employer and although he's moved on, we've done some projects together that have all had satisfactory outcome or better.

Indias logistics is not very good. People say China was all cheap labor but the other major aspect China had was cheap and very defined logistics/infrastructure. Both of which doesn't exist in same extent in India

Much like the Philippines, a country that's linguistically and educationally positioned to get a lot of work, but logistics are terrible, plus the nation isn't what you'd call stable.

If India is to attract a company like Intel to invest big, it really needs to improve its infrastructure, as in roads, electricity, water supplies, sanitation etc.

I think it's getting better, but it will take a really long time to get to near where it should be.

Traffic is hell and you'd think it's always rush hour, judging by the amount of vehicles on the roads. The more modern parts are actually quite nice, but yeah, they have a lot of issues to solve. That said, it's not like the PRC is miles ahead and Intel has fabs there...

Weird how there’s a “no politics” rule on this forum with one exception.

I don’t even mean political bias, but this isn’t news, it’s not even a rumor… it’s just a charade that has no real impact on silicon manufacturing.

Sure, maybe something will come of it, but front page news, and these comments? Do better TPU.

Sorry, but why isn't this news? We've already written about India's attempt at getting semiconductor businesses to build fabs there, so this is highly relevant, as it's about the same pile of money that's the politically are now clearly trying to use to entice Intel to open up some chip manufacturing related business in India. India has realised that they need semiconductor businesses, or they're going to fall too far behind to stay competitive with the PRC. Also, you're not forced to read this kind of content if you're not interested.

Nonsense. Indian industry is very capable and they have a very willing workforce. India would be a great option for Intel and just about anyone else.

A capable industry isn't the same as good logistics though. Everything moves slowly in India due to an aging infrastructure that was left behind by the British. Then again, Vietnam is in a similar places, although it's a much smaller country.

 

[AlwaysHope]

A capable industry isn't the same as good logistics though. Everything moves slowly in India due to an aging infrastructure that was left behind by the British. Then again, Vietnam is in a similar places, although it's a much smaller country.

Wait.. the British leave India back in 1947! so your saying it's still their fault?
An article like this can't help but get political. Funny how lots of stuff in many industries revolve around that.

 

[londiste]

My previous work, outsourced most of the software work to India. Mainly because the cost was less than half in Europe. And as usual work never finished in time as promised, or even satisfactory results and as well at all. In the end the company did spend more money to get the job done but at the expense of clients dismay as we were also late to deliver. In the end, boss closed the company....

That's unfortunate. I used to work for a company that was owned by an Indian and with about 95% is the staff based in India by the time I left. I had a very different experience, but I guess there's a big difference outsourcing work and doing it in house. We had some very competent software developers, but sometimes they needed outside input to understand what they were supposed to do. I have a much more positive attitude towards Indian software developers compared to PRC ones, as the latter claim they can do it and then just keep coming up with excuses as to why is not finished and in the end you get nothing...

India is huge and there is a LOT of people there and possible variability is huge as well. Plus, for an European or an American the cultural differences with Indians are definitely a thing.

From what I have seen and experienced primarily from a software development standpoint - When it comes to random Western company outsourcing to India they are going there for the cheapest possible prices and get what they pay for. On the other hand there are a lot of smart and capable people there but their salary range is quite close or sometimes more than somewhere geographically and culturally closer in most cases.

 

[the54thvoid]

On the 'political' front, any nation with suitable resources will have input into the economy. That requires the governing party to be involved in the process. That in itself is not politics, that is in the national interest. Whether it is securing jobs for your own nation, or securing industry for an economic boon, to do what is percevied to be good for your countries future is not political in the sense most people think.

Politics is more about the opposition of an ideology, or even a simple disagreement between parties. A news piece seeking to highlight a nations interest in gaining a tech edge is news for TPU. It crosses into politics if the author slants their work, or op-eds it into an ideological stance. Or, if the reader then posts something that is motivated by ideology, rather than cold, hard fact. I think where this thread is in danger of crossing lines is the danger of generalising about an entire nations work ethic.

To be honest, so far, I've seen nothing truly objectionable in this thread. But that's just my opinion.

 

[TheLostSwede]

India is huge and there is a LOT of people there and possible variability is huge as well. Plus, for an European or an American the cultural differences with Indians are definitely a thing.

From what I have seen and experienced primarily from a software development standpoint - When it comes to random Western company outsourcing to India they are going there for the cheapest possible prices and get what they pay for. On the other hand there are a lot of smart and capable people there but their salary range is quite close or sometimes more than somewhere geographically and culturally closer in most cases.

Boeing anyone?

And as anywhere else in the world, people who excel at their jobs, tend to be able to demand more pay.

I'd say the cultural issues with India vs the PRC are vastly easier to overcome, even compared to Taiwan in many cases.
This is based on my own work experience, having worked with people in all three nations.

 

[stimpy88]

Get 'em in, then start stinging them for bribes after a few months.

 

[lexluthermiester]

A capable industry isn't the same as good logistics though.

While true, good logistics comes with investment. Proper investment means proper logistics. PAR for the course.

 

[de.das.dude]

If what yousaid here is even partially true, I think India needs to land smaller fish to prove it can be trusted to big fish like Intel without labor problems.

intel already has offices here. just not manufacturing. Govt wont go for smaller fish because smaller fish dont give good moolah lol.