Microsoft Allows PC Makers to Downgrade to Windows XP

malware · Sep 22, 2007

While Microsoft is still pushing Vista hard, the company is quietly allowing PC makers to offer a "downgrade" option to buyers that get machines with the new operating system but want to switch to Windows XP. The program applies only to Windows Vista Business and Ultimate versions, and it is up to PC makers to decide how, if at all, they want to make XP available. Fujitsu has been among the most aggressive, starting last month to include an XP disc in the box with its laptops and tablets. Under Microsoft's licensing terms for Vista, buyers of Vista Business and Vista Ultimate Edition have always had the right to downgrade to XP, but in practice this could be challenging. Try the full story here.

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WhiteLotus · Sep 22, 2007

good news - i hate looking for a new computers and they all come with vista - i dont want vista i want xp untill vista SP1 has been debugged

FreedomEclipse · Sep 22, 2007

ARTT said:
good news - i hate looking for a new computers and they all come with vista - i dont want vista i want xp untill vista SP1 has been debugged

Sorry I just find it ridiculously Hilarious that M.soft have released a service pack which is as buggy as vista itself lol. M.soft deserve the 'Clown Of Technology' award (if there ever was such a thing)

ex_reven · Sep 22, 2007

FreedomEclipse said:
Sorry I just find it ridiculously Hilarious that M.soft have released a service pack which is as buggy as vista itself lol. M.soft deserve the 'Clown Of Technology' award (if there ever was such a thing)

How is Vista buggy?
It runs with the same functionality as XP SP2 as far as Im concerned.

The only real issue is the performance difference, which is negated after some careful tuning.

The fact of the matter is that Windows is probably the most comprehensive OS out, and at the same time doesnt require any skill to install or operate like some of the free OS's used by members of these forums. Any large software package is bound to have bugs. Nevertheless, Id still rather be using XP. It just seems so much more responsive, maybe because I havnt played with the services and whatnot yet. But that doesnt make it buggy, its just bloated.

FreedomEclipse · Sep 22, 2007

ex_reven said:
How is Vista buggy?
It runs with the same functionality as XP SP2 as far as Im concerned.

The only real issue is the performance difference, which is negated after some careful tuning.

The fact of the matter is that Windows is probably the most comprehensive OS out, and at the same time doesnt require any skill to install or operate like some of the free OS's used by members of these forums. Any large software package is bound to have bugs. Nevertheless, Id still rather be using XP. It just seems so much more responsive, maybe because I havnt played with the services and whatnot yet. But that doesnt make it buggy, its just bloated.

well as it currently stands. im currently doing a little work with a vista system. installed fresh not long ago. as im more of an avid gamer the first thing id like to do after getting drivers for everything is going in for some CS:S or COD2. we'l see how things are, if not i still prefer XP anyhow but XP is getting a little boring lol

HAL7000 · Sep 22, 2007

XP Pro has never failed me yet, esp. after all these years. Vista looks to be good and I will eventually jump into it sometime in 2008 after I change out my complete system. What worries me is many of my colleagues and friends have run Vista Ultimate and find it annoying like Win ME. So I am glad that MS has realized they still have a ways to go to make Vista what they claimed it to be on release. They realize XP Pro is the right choice still for stability and performance overall, IMHO.

Weer · Sep 22, 2007

Please.
When XP came out everyone was saying exactly what they're saying now about Vista.

Vista works perfectly for me, and with my PC I don't have to care about performance, so I don't need XP.

WarEagleAU · Sep 22, 2007

I would expect Vista to get adopted more widely once the hotfixes come out. From what Ive seen of it, its a nifty OS. Although, it seems to hit gaming performance in DX10 and I believe in DX9 as well...

HAL7000 · Sep 22, 2007

Weer, I see in your specs your have XP Pro 64 bit, can you tell me how it performs overall? I was always going to get this OS and had the beta but never did. But I might consider this as an option.

HAL7000 · Sep 22, 2007

What also gets me is how QUOTE: Microsoft is requiring large PC makers to stop selling XP-based systems as of January 31, they muscle the OEM's to submission. This is where MS, IMO goes to far.
If OEM's want to offer XP beyond that date they shouldn't be hassled. So if MS wants to give them a deadline how about the OEM's and the consumers getting together and giving MS til Jan. 31st to get Vista right or else....

Ravenas · Sep 22, 2007

Wow, I hope MS starts stepping up to the plate in terms of their operating systems.

:toast:

effmaster · Sep 22, 2007

They have stepped up to the plate you silly people.

Vista is their most secure OS ever and guess what thats the numero uno reason why the requirements are so high besides the Aero effects of course.

erocker · Sep 22, 2007

WTF Microsoft? Can you listen to your customers? How about XP with DX10? Do it, dump Vista, and I will surely buy Windows 7.

I can't stand Linux.

FAXA · Sep 22, 2007

I have a dual booting PC atm. Although I rarely use XP now, and in contrast it looks as bland as boiled potatoes. I only use it for very old games, like Hogs Of War.

ex_reven · Sep 23, 2007

HAL7000 said:
Weer, I see in your specs your have XP Pro 64 bit, can you tell me how it performs overall? I was always going to get this OS and had the beta but never did. But I might consider this as an option.

Not worth the bother...
I didnt see any performance increase unless working on something with a phenomenal file size loaded into RAM.

HAL7000 said:
What also gets me is how QUOTE: Microsoft is requiring large PC makers to stop selling XP-based systems as of January 31, they muscle the OEM's to submission. This is where MS, IMO goes to far.
If OEM's want to offer XP beyond that date they shouldn't be hassled. So if MS wants to give them a deadline how about the OEM's and the consumers getting together and giving MS til Jan. 31st to get Vista right or else....

They have every right to do that.

WhiteLotus · Sep 23, 2007

the thing i dont like about vista - and this is from what i have read and what i have heard so if i am wrong feel free to correct me - is that it has its own built in firewall and AV so you cant use others. when i use a PC i want to use it my way not how someone wants me to use it

ex_reven · Sep 23, 2007

ARTT said:
the thing i dont like about vista - and this is from what i have read and what i have heard so if i am wrong feel free to correct me - is that it has its own built in firewall and AV so you cant use others. when i use a PC i want to use it my way not how someone wants me to use it

Nah thats nonsense. Takes you a few seconds to deactivate them using the same process as XP Pro.

WhiteLotus · Sep 23, 2007

ah ok thankyou for the correction

ex_reven · Sep 23, 2007

ARTT said:
ah ok thankyou for the correction

No problems.
Its just a matter of disabling services in msconfig.

Services like - Security Centre, UAC (User Account Control), Windows Defender, Windows Firewall etc. Takes a minute or two to find them in the list then its all sweet.

Like I said, the main issue is performance. And thats only due to things like superfetch that keep important/commonly used processes in RAM even when they are not being used.

This is how you overcome the performance hurdle of Vista...http://tweakhound.com/vista/tweakguide/page_7.htm

HAL7000 · Sep 23, 2007

effmaster said:
You have gone too far with that staement

What is to far.....the truth is the truth....MS has gone to far making demands on their OEM's and the consumers.

It is US the consumers that need to start demanding MS to step up to the plate and supply to us what they have already proclaimed to be.....otherwise it is misleading the consumer in plain english.

MS is no different from any other company....we must hold them accountable to their claims and advertisements. :toast:

HAL7000 · Sep 23, 2007

ex_reven:They have every right to do that.[/QUOTE]

And we as consumers have the right to hold them accountable to provide us what the originally proclaimed. They need someone that will not turn a head to the poor CR that MS has been putting out with Vista. SP1 that has more bugs than the original OS. Well, it was rushed out the doors.
We burn AMD or Intel or even MB companies when they do this type of bullsh*t, so MS is no different. Holding them accountable it the most logical thing to do as consumers. Ohterwise we loose, plain and simple,

If I bought a car with major defects, would I drive the car until they fixed or figure out how to repair them, no I give it back and demand them to fix it, give me a loner until it is fixed and then get my car back when it is repaired or get another car if it is to problematic....(lemon law)
So MS has given OEM's a loaner ....XP until they repair Vista....if they don't....the loaner is extended or the OS replaced, of financially compensated. Holding MS accountable is the right thing to do. :toast:

effmaster · Sep 23, 2007

HAL7000 said:
What is to far.....the truth is the truth....MS has gone to far making demands on their OEM's and the consumers.

It is US the consumers that need to start demanding MS to step up to the plate and supply to us what they have already proclaimed to be.....otherwise it is misleading the consumer in plain english.

MS is no different from any other company....we must hold them accountable to their claims and advertisements.

What was misleading about Windows Vista I have seen nothing short of spectacular for the most part with the operating system?

ex_reven · Sep 24, 2007

HAL7000 said:
And we as consumers have the right to hold them accountable to provide us what the originally proclaimed. They need someone that will not turn a head to the poor CR that MS has been putting out with Vista. SP1 that has more bugs than the original OS. Well, it was rushed out the doors.
We burn AMD or Intel or even MB companies when they do this type of bullsh*t, so MS is no different. Holding them accountable it the most logical thing to do as consumers. Ohterwise we loose, plain and simple,

If I bought a car with major defects, would I drive the car until they fixed or figure out how to repair them, no I give it back and demand them to fix it, give me a loner until it is fixed and then get my car back when it is repaired or get another car if it is to problematic....(lemon law)
So MS has given OEM's a loaner ....XP until they repair Vista....if they don't....the loaner is extended or the OS replaced, of financially compensated. Holding MS accountable is the right thing to do.

Hold them accountable for what? 90% of users dont give a crap about performance, they use the systems for home use and they love the eye candy crap. The only real complainers are tech enthusiasts and businesses who want every bit of juice from our system, and businesses dont even use Vista, they use a reliable OS like XP, 2000 and Server.

I wasnt saying they have the right to not provide what they originally promised, I was saying that they have the right to tell OEM's to replace their product anymore. Remember that Windows is a licenced product and not one owned by the purchaser. If Microsoft wants to put some muscle into the market, so be it, every successful company does it at some stage.

HAL7000 · Sep 25, 2007

http://www.bbspot.com/News/2007/09/microsoft-reveals-windows-vista-sp1-will-install-xp.html

All I was saying is that MS should be held to the same expectations that they hold everyone else to.
Releasing an OS with minor bugs is to be expected to a point,
IMHO, MS should have an OS upon release, tested and working with minimal to no problems. Compatibility and performance after paying $$$$ for Vista Ultimate should be the least of my concerns.
I guess I am old school, releasing or providing a service/ product that are less than optimal for my customers; I personally have never done and won’t.
MS worked on Vista for a good 3+ years, and now recommend dropping back to XP temporally? I guess I will wait to jump into Vista for a good while.

effmaster · Oct 1, 2007

HAL7000 said:
http://www.bbspot.com/News/2007/09/microsoft-reveals-windows-vista-sp1-will-install-xp.html

All I was saying is that MS should be held to the same expectations that they hold everyone else to.
Releasing an OS with minor bugs is to be expected to a point,
IMHO, MS should have an OS upon release, tested and working with minimal to no problems. Compatibility and performance after paying $$$$ for Vista Ultimate should be the least of my concerns.
I guess I am old school, releasing or providing a service/ product that are less than optimal for my customers; I personally have never done and won’t.
MS worked on Vista for a good 3+ years, and now recommend dropping back to XP temporally? I guess I will wait to jump into Vista for a good while.

You gotta remember that Microsoft spent I believe it was well over $1,000,000,000 (thats 1 billion dollars for those of you that can't count) on testing its product and even then you can't find every bug on your operating system without it being released to the Mass public every company is guilty of this to some degree. Look at Apple arent they releasing updates for major bugs that could allow hackers control of your computer? Doesnt every game have glitches that only the public could find to some degree (remember the Halo 2 sword glitch

?). Couldnt some updates that fix minor bugs create an unseen glitch that could potentially allow a hacker to take control of your computer? These are all valid reasons as to why there will always be updated for most kinds of software or none at all

. Hackers will always find a way somehow unfortunately to hack a program or OS remember that :slap:

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Microsoft Allows PC Makers to Downgrade to Windows XP

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