• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD Announces 6nm Radeon RX 6500 XT and Radeon RX 6400 Graphics Cards at CES 2022

Raevenlord

News Editor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,755 (1.23/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
Storage Boot: Transcend MTE220S 2TB, Kintson A2000 1TB, Seagate Firewolf Pro 14 TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
AMD today via its CES livestream announced a couple of new graphics cards to be added to its desktop Radeon lineup. The Radeon RX 6500 XT and RX 6400 slot in just below the already-released RX 6600 graphics card and its virtual MSRP of $329, and bring RDNA2 and ray tracing support to a much more affordable $199 MSRP. Both cards are manufactured in TSMC's 6 nm process, bringing about a reduction in die area and improved power consumption characteristics. According to AMD, these target high settings AAA and eSports gaming on 1080p resolution, and would be most interesting for gamers still packing a GeForce GTX 1650 or Radeon RX 470 graphics card (or lower performance options). This is also made possible on account of AMD's Fidelity FX Super Resolution (FSR) and the newly-announced RSR, with these image upscaling technologies severely increasing pure performance output of these relatively small discrete GPUs.

The RX 6500 XT with its $199 price tag has been confirmed for a January 19th release via AIB partner cards only (of which the company showed as many as 14 different models from a range of partners, which you can see after the break). For $199, the RX 6500 XT offers an exact halving of the RX 6600 XT, packing 16 RDNA2 CUs, 4 GB of GDDR6 RAM, a 2,610 MHz game clock, and a 2,815 MHz boosted clock, while drawing 107 W of power. The 4 GB memory pool may seem limiting, but may be a smart decision from AMD, effectively cutting off these cards from Ethereum mining workloads (these require 8 GB of VRAM). And 16 RDNA2 CUs gives us 1,024 shading units and only 16 RT cores: it's likely the card would run out of shader performance before it would be able to properly take advantage of a larger VRAM pool. No word yet on when should we expect the RX 6400.





The usage of a more advanced 6 nm manufacturing process in these graphics cards could mean that refreshes of AMD's RX 6000 series may be coming to the technology eventually. It may also indicate that AMD chose to manufacture these relatively small and inexpensive graphics cards first so as to aid TSMC in improving yields and to better understand what challenges the new process brings. At the same time, AMD is now effectively able to distribute GPUs across two distinct semiconductor manufacturing nodes, which should have a respectable impact on how many GPUs AMD can deliver per quarter, thus allowing for a hypothetical easing of sorts on the demand side. Perhaps AMD is now planning on staggering updates for 6 nm of its already-released RX 6000 series cards.

All in all, there are 14 RX 6500 XT models being launched on January 19th, from partner brands such as AsRock, ASUS, Biostar, Gigabyte, MSI, PowerColor, Sapphire, Yeston, and XFX. Pictures of each of these graphics cards follow.





View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
6,978 (4.80/day)
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
System Name "Icy Resurrection"
Processor 13th Gen Intel Core i9-13900KS Special Edition
Motherboard ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ENCORE
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S upgraded with 2x NF-F12 iPPC-3000 fans and Honeywell PTM7950 TIM
Memory 32 GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB F5-6800J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK @ 7600 MT/s 36-44-44-52-96 1.4V
Video Card(s) ASUS ROG Strix GeForce RTX™ 4080 16GB GDDR6X White OC Edition
Storage 500 GB WD Black SN750 SE NVMe SSD + 4 TB WD Red Plus WD40EFPX HDD
Display(s) 55-inch LG G3 OLED
Case Pichau Mancer CV500 White Edition
Power Supply EVGA 1300 G2 1.3kW 80+ Gold
Mouse Microsoft Classic Intellimouse
Keyboard Generic PS/2
Software Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2
Benchmark Scores I pulled a Qiqi~
It is a shame, the 6600 XT should be this price... but alas, I hope availability is alright. Wouldn't mind picking one of these up myself to finally experience what RDNA has to offer.
 
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
1,383 (0.83/day)
It is a shame, the 6600 XT should be this price... but alas, I hope availability is alright. Wouldn't mind picking one of these up myself to finally experience what RDNA has to offer.
Don't worry, 16MB of cache isn't even enough for 1024x768 with 32-bit textures. :D

I just had to - I remember when I had Matrox G400 with 16MB RAM, pretty pictures, but too little for 32-bit 1024x768.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
4,373 (0.94/day)
Location
St. Paul, MN
System Name Bay2- Lowerbay/ HP 3770/T3500-2+T3500-3+T3500-4/ Opti-Con/Orange/White/Grey
Processor i3 2120's/ i7 3770/ x5670's/ i5 2400/Ryzen 2700/Ryzen 2700/R7 3700x
Motherboard HP UltraSlim's/ HP mid size/ Dell T3500 workstation's/ Dell 390/B450 AorusM/B450 AorusM/B550 AorusM
Cooling All stock coolers/Grey has an H-60
Memory 2GB/ 4GB/ 12 GB 3 chan/ 4GB sammy/T-Force 16GB 3200/XPG 16GB 3000/Ballistic 3600 16GB
Video Card(s) HD2000's/ HD 2000/ 1 MSI GT710,2x MSI R7 240's/ HD4000/ Red Dragon 580/Sapphire 580/Sapphire 580
Storage ?HDD's/ 500 GB-er's/ 500 GB/2.5 Samsung 500GB HDD+WD Black 1TB/ WD Black 500GB M.2/Corsair MP600 M.2
Display(s) 1920x1080/ ViewSonic VX24568 between the rest/1080p TV-Grey
Case HP 8200 UltraSlim's/ HP 8200 mid tower/Dell T3500's/ Dell 390/SilverStone Kublai KL06/NZXT H510 W x2
Audio Device(s) Sonic Master/ onboard's/ Beeper's!
Power Supply 19.5 volt bricks/ Dell PSU/ 525W sumptin/ same/Seasonic 750 80+Gold/EVGA 500 80+/Antec 650 80+Gold
Mouse cheap GigaWire930, CMStorm Havoc + Logitech M510 wireless/iGear usb x2/MX 900 wireless kit 4 Grey
Keyboard Dynex, 2 no name, SYX and a Logitech. All full sized and USB. MX900 kit for Grey
Software Mint 18 Sylvia/ Opti-Con Mint KDE/ T3500's on Kubuntu/HP 3770 is Win 10/Win 10 Pro/Win 10 Pro/Win10
Benchmark Scores World Community Grid is my benchmark!!
Methinks that G400 comparison is funny. Pretty damn sure the Infinity Cache ain't your G400 Cache, from 1999!

So, yea, let's not jump the Shark, eh?

Judgement should be saved until testing has been released, from all the folks out there, just clambering at the bit, to do so. (run-on sentence, anyone?)

:lovetpu:
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
12,548 (5.80/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon B
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE
If the 6400 comes at a reasonable price (and availability) and in low profile form factor, I'll get one for my HTPC just out of curiosity. I miss the days when low spec gaming was a thing.
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
748 (0.25/day)
If the 6400 comes at a reasonable price (and availability) and in low profile form factor, I'll get one for my HTPC just out of curiosity. I miss the days when low spec gaming was a thing.

It's seems it's OEM only and it has the same decode/encode features missing as it's larger brother (source):




@Raevenlord
No word yet on when should we expect the RX 6400

6400 also seems to launch on 19.1.2022 (source)
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
12,548 (5.80/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon B
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE
It's seems it's OEM only and it has the same decode/encode features missing as it's larger brother (source):




@Raevenlord


6400 also seems to launch on 19.1.2022 (source)
It doesn't say that it's OEM only. I hope it's not. Shame about the decode, though. It seems, AMD is missing out on the only viable market for this card.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,859 (0.59/day)
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Processor Ryzen 5700x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aero G R1.1 BiosF5g
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14 w/ NF-A15 HS-PWM Fan 1500rpm
Memory Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6800 - Asus Tuf
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair MP600 Pro LPX
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220-VB
Power Supply SuperFlower Leadex V Gold Pro 850W ATX Ver2.52
Mouse Mionix Naos Pro
Keyboard Corsair Strafe with browns
Software W10 22H2 Pro x64
"The RX 6500 XT with its $199 price tag has been confirmed for a January 19th "

See how it compares to the old RX460, in price, performance and availability.
 
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
1,383 (0.83/day)
"The RX 6500 XT with its $199 price tag has been confirmed for a January 19th "

See how it compares to the old RX460, in price, performance and availability.
It's got 1024 shaders and ~twice the clock speed, so twice the speed. Plus optimisations in shader layout 32-wide instead of 64... Even better.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,859 (0.59/day)
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Processor Ryzen 5700x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aero G R1.1 BiosF5g
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14 w/ NF-A15 HS-PWM Fan 1500rpm
Memory Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6800 - Asus Tuf
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair MP600 Pro LPX
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220-VB
Power Supply SuperFlower Leadex V Gold Pro 850W ATX Ver2.52
Mouse Mionix Naos Pro
Keyboard Corsair Strafe with browns
Software W10 22H2 Pro x64
It's got 1024 shaders and ~twice the clock speed, so twice the speed. Plus optimisations in shader layout 32-wide instead of 64... Even better.
Performance should be at least 2x, it's availability and actual cost I wonder about.
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
470 (0.20/day)
Location
Jakarta, Indonesia
System Name PC-GX1
Processor i9 10900 non K (stock) TDP 65w
Motherboard asrock b560 steel legend | Realtek ALC897
Cooling cooler master hyper 2x12 LED turbo argb | 5x12cm fan rgb intake | 3x12cm fan rgb exhaust
Memory corsair vengeance LPX 2x32gb ddr4 3600mhz
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 3080 10GB Gaming Z Trio LHR TDP 370w| 566.36 WHQL | MSI AB v4.65 | RTSS v7.36
Storage NVME 2+2TB gen3| SSD 4TB sata3 | 1+2TB 7200rpm sata3| 4+4+5TB USB3 (optional)
Display(s) AOC U34P2C (IPS panel, 3440x1440 75hz) + speaker 5W*2 | APC BX1100CI MS (660w)
Case lianli lancool 2 mesh RGB windows - white edition | 1x dvd-RW usb 3.0 (optional)
Audio Device(s) Nakamichi soundstation8w 2.1 100W RMS | Simbadda CST 9000N+ 2.1 352W RMS
Power Supply seasonic focus gx-850w 80+ gold - white edition 2021 | APC BX2200MI MS (1200w)
Mouse steelseries sensei ten | logitech g440
Keyboard steelseries apex 5 | steelseries QCK prism cloth XL | steelseries arctis 5
VR HMD -
Software dvd win 10 home 64bit oem + full update 22H2
Benchmark Scores -
so, this new radeon rx 6500xt 4gb and rx 6400 4gb will be going versus nvidia new rtx 3050 8gb....??......... cool.......
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
55 (0.02/day)
I want a bunch of RX6400 since there are too few 1-slot LP GPUs.

BTW GTX1650 is out of my choice because my emulator lags on all NV & Intel GPUs.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
2,508 (0.79/day)
If they could make a card like RX 6500XT/6400 and add a pair of M.2 slots on the backside that could be use for direct storage directly on the GPU's and also had CF support on the cards they would probably actually be a fair bit more appealing. Even doing the former wouldn't be bad. They have so much excess PCIE bandwidth on that card slot anyway for that level of GPU card.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
12,006 (1.72/day)
System Name Compy 386
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard Asus
Cooling Air for now.....
Memory 64 GB DDR5 6400Mhz
Video Card(s) 7900XTX 310 Merc
Storage Samsung 990 2TB, 2 SP 2TB SSDs, 24TB Enterprise drives
Display(s) 55" Samsung 4K HDR
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Mouse Logitech MX518
Keyboard Razer
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
so, this new radeon rx 6500xt 4gb and rx 6400 4gb will be going versus nvidia new rtx 3050 8gb....??......... cool.......

I bet 8GB does nothing more for a card like this, between the small infinity cache, high clock speed there will probably be few games that could actually make any use of more than 4GB of Vmem at the resolution this card can handle.

Smart Access Memory, able to move more data to Vmem faster.
Direct storage too
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
671 (0.44/day)
Location
Austria
System Name nope
Processor I3 10100F
Motherboard ATM Gigabyte h410
Cooling Arctic 12 passive
Memory ATM Gskill 1x 8GB NT Series (No Heatspreader bling bling garbage, just Black DIMMS)
Video Card(s) Sapphire HD7770 and EVGA GTX 470 and Zotac GTX 960
Storage 120GB OS SSD, 240GB M2 Sata, 240GB M2 NVME, 300GB HDD, 500GB HDD
Display(s) Nec EA 241 WM
Case Coolermaster whatever
Audio Device(s) Onkyo on TV and Mi Bluetooth on Screen
Power Supply Super Flower Leadx 550W
Mouse Steelseries Rival Fnatic
Keyboard Logitech K270 Wireless
Software Deepin, BSD and 10 LTSC
2016
GTX 1050TI 4GB 200$

2022
RX 6500 4GB 200$

:shadedshu: :shadedshu: :shadedshu: :shadedshu:
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
671 (0.44/day)
Location
Austria
System Name nope
Processor I3 10100F
Motherboard ATM Gigabyte h410
Cooling Arctic 12 passive
Memory ATM Gskill 1x 8GB NT Series (No Heatspreader bling bling garbage, just Black DIMMS)
Video Card(s) Sapphire HD7770 and EVGA GTX 470 and Zotac GTX 960
Storage 120GB OS SSD, 240GB M2 Sata, 240GB M2 NVME, 300GB HDD, 500GB HDD
Display(s) Nec EA 241 WM
Case Coolermaster whatever
Audio Device(s) Onkyo on TV and Mi Bluetooth on Screen
Power Supply Super Flower Leadx 550W
Mouse Steelseries Rival Fnatic
Keyboard Logitech K270 Wireless
Software Deepin, BSD and 10 LTSC
yeah and in Games with great textures a HD 7970 6GB from 2012 will fck this Card ten years later.

The enemy for the 6500 is not the 6 year old 1050ti it its the 3050 with 8GB (or even a 1660TI with 6GB) :laugh:
 

ixi

Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Messages
1,451 (0.38/day)
yeah and in Games with great textures a HD 7970 6GB from 2012 will fck this Card ten years later.

The enemy for the 6500 is not the 6 year old 1050ti it its the 3050 with 8GB (or even a 1660TI with 6GB) :laugh:

Ohh boy another vram wannaby. Buy then 6600 or rtx 3050 :). 3050 is only 50 bucks more. And you'll get 8GB vram powaaa, not to mention gpu probably gonna be snacked by miners, haha.

Not to mention that 7970 was high-end then and it has 3GB version too, soo useless comparison. Look at power draw, efficienty etc. 6500 will flip 7970 like little girl.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
748 (0.25/day)
Shame about the decode, though. It seems, AMD is missing out on the only viable market for this card.

It looks more and more that this is a mobile first GPU that was meant to be paired with an APU which has decode/encode already built in. It's available for the desktop DIY only because they can sell them for a good margin in the current market ...
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
6,978 (4.80/day)
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
System Name "Icy Resurrection"
Processor 13th Gen Intel Core i9-13900KS Special Edition
Motherboard ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ENCORE
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S upgraded with 2x NF-F12 iPPC-3000 fans and Honeywell PTM7950 TIM
Memory 32 GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB F5-6800J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK @ 7600 MT/s 36-44-44-52-96 1.4V
Video Card(s) ASUS ROG Strix GeForce RTX™ 4080 16GB GDDR6X White OC Edition
Storage 500 GB WD Black SN750 SE NVMe SSD + 4 TB WD Red Plus WD40EFPX HDD
Display(s) 55-inch LG G3 OLED
Case Pichau Mancer CV500 White Edition
Power Supply EVGA 1300 G2 1.3kW 80+ Gold
Mouse Microsoft Classic Intellimouse
Keyboard Generic PS/2
Software Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2
Benchmark Scores I pulled a Qiqi~
Ohh boy another vram wannaby. Buy then 6600 or rtx 3050 :). 3050 is only 50 bucks more. And you'll get 8GB vram powaaa, not to mention gpu probably gonna be snacked by miners, haha.

Not to mention that 7970 was high-end then and it has 3GB version too, soo useless comparison. Look at power draw, efficienty etc. 6500 will flip 7970 like little girl.

Let's be real, it was not very long ago that AMD was roasting NVIDIA for daring to release 4-6 GB video cards in the entry and performance segments, and it is the same AMD that boasted about the R9 Fury X's 4 GB of HBM being able to go on equal footing with Titan X Maxwell's 12 GB of GDDR5. Marketing and brand loyalty can be a funny thing, down the road they will come bite you where the sun don't shine :D

See it from the perspective of an RTX 3090 owner (meaning: I have more VRAM than what I know what to do with), I agree that the 4 GB of memory isn't a deal breaker for a GPU such as the RX 6500 XT, it's the 64-bit memory bus that concerns me. Infinity Cache or not, I have more than a few reasons to believe that this GPU will suck at both AA and texture intensive games, and any resolution above 1080p (I actually have 1600x900 for optimal performance on this thing in mind) is gonna be flat out hostile to it. I'm waiting for the reviews, if the price is not scalped in my country, I am gonna pick one up myself.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
1,759 (1.02/day)
If the 6400 comes at a reasonable price (and availability) and in low profile form factor, I'll get one for my HTPC just out of curiosity. I miss the days when low spec gaming was a thing.
Don't waste your money. While the card is compact and seems to fit a HTPC, it does not come with updated video decoder, i.e. AV1. This is a miserable omission from AMD. In my opinion, if the card is sold anything above its MSRP, it is not worth getting.
1. Specs are way too gimped for any decent gaming. It may run ok for now, but the runway is likely very limited. People using motherboards with PCI-E 3.0 should steer clear of this.
2. Lack of VRAM which impacts gaming performance also limits miners' interest.
3. Omission of up to date video decoder limits its use for HTPC. It can still run, but you CPU is going to work harder if you try and play a show with AV1 codec.
4. If price is too high (which I believe will be higher than MSRP), then if I need a GPU just for working with multiple displays, iGPU and cheap GT 1030 can also do the same. So why pay more?
All in all, I don't know who is the product for. AMD says this is for gamers and they "deliberately" gimped the card to make it unattractive for miners. The truth is the card is likely unattractive for anyone, and especially so if these are sold over their MSRP.

And by the way, I feel the RX 6800 series was great after using it for some time. But anything that came after the RX 6800 series are quite lacklustre in my opinion. This RX 6500/6400 is the ultimate gimped GPU. In 2022, we find 64 bit memory bus, PCI-E x4 connection, outdated video decoder, etc. The assumption is that the 16MB "Infinity" cache is sufficient to keep up with the expected resolution and graphic quality. At least for now or in select games where AMD have selected. But once that cache is insufficient, performance will be strangled by the limited memory bandwidth.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
671 (0.44/day)
Location
Austria
System Name nope
Processor I3 10100F
Motherboard ATM Gigabyte h410
Cooling Arctic 12 passive
Memory ATM Gskill 1x 8GB NT Series (No Heatspreader bling bling garbage, just Black DIMMS)
Video Card(s) Sapphire HD7770 and EVGA GTX 470 and Zotac GTX 960
Storage 120GB OS SSD, 240GB M2 Sata, 240GB M2 NVME, 300GB HDD, 500GB HDD
Display(s) Nec EA 241 WM
Case Coolermaster whatever
Audio Device(s) Onkyo on TV and Mi Bluetooth on Screen
Power Supply Super Flower Leadx 550W
Mouse Steelseries Rival Fnatic
Keyboard Logitech K270 Wireless
Software Deepin, BSD and 10 LTSC
Im sure the 6500 is a Notebook Chip, Amd saw they can make even a much higher profit than sold it to OEM for Notebooks. :laugh:
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
1,759 (1.02/day)
Im sure the 6500 is a Notebook Chip, Amd saw they can make even a much higher profit than sold it to OEM for Notebooks. :laugh:
I believe most of the cards will be destined for OEM, i.e. prebuild computers and laptops. After all, most people buying prebuild computers, e.g. from Lenovo, aren't very tech savvy. This can be marketed as a gaming GPU, and they will buy it. For me, I will certainly steer clear of this GPU myself.
 
Last edited:
Top