• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

OEMs Under Pressure from Microsoft to Stop Use of HDDs as Boot Drives from 2023

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,294 (7.53/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
PC OEMs have revealed to market intelligence firm Trendfocus that Microsoft wants them to stop the use of hard-disk drives (HDDs, or mechanical hard-drives) as the main boot device in products powered by Windows 11, from 2023. It's not known how the company will go about enforcing this. One theory holds that it may amend the Minimum System Requirements for the operating system to specify a flash-based storage device, such as an SSD. If push comes to shove, the OS could even refuse to deploy on a machine with an HDD as the boot device.

What's also not known is how this affects SSHDs (hard drives with tiny flash-based storage media and an access-based data-juggling mechanism). Microsoft's decision should come as a boon for entry-level notebook and desktop buyers; as this segment sees OEMs use HDDs as the boot device, the most. There could be a push toward at least DRAMless QLC SSDs, or even single-chip SSDs. Regardless, it's clear that 2.5-inch HDDs are on their way out of the industry. HDD as a technology may still exist in the 3.5-inch form-factor, as they are in high demand from the data-center and surveillance markets as cold storage devices.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 

FreedomEclipse

~Technological Technocrat~
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Messages
24,160 (3.74/day)
Location
London,UK
System Name WorkInProgress
Processor AMD 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI X670E GAMING PLUS
Cooling Thermalright AM5 Contact Frame + Phantom Spirit 120SE
Memory 2x32GB G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO DDR5 6000 CL32-38-38-96
Video Card(s) Asus Dual Radeon™ RX 6700 XT OC Edition
Storage WD SN770 1TB (Boot)|1x WD SN850X 8TB (Gaming) | 2x2TB WD SN770| 2x2TB+2x4TB Crucial BX500
Display(s) LG GP850-B
Case Corsair 760T (White) {1xCorsair ML120 Pro|5xML140 Pro}
Audio Device(s) Yamaha RX-V573|Speakers: JBL Control One|Auna 300-CN|Wharfedale Diamond SW150
Power Supply Seasonic Focus GX-850 80+ GOLD
Mouse Logitech G502 X
Keyboard Duckyshine Dead LED(s) III
Software Windows 11 Home
Benchmark Scores ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ
I mean. Im sure SSD manufacturers could make a really really cheap ass SSD that performs somewhat on the level of a hard drive for absolute peanuts.

Make it an OEM only part.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
4,621 (0.92/day)
Sure when you can get cheap QLC ssds that are just as slow as hdds so for entry level models overall user experience wont be any different. Majority of mid range laptops already come with excellent SSDs so industry as a whole has moved away from HDDs.
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
4,670 (2.61/day)
Location
Ex-usa | slava the trolls
The OEMs can even order the board partners to solder some SSDs on the motherboards. 20 euros for 256 GB 90MB/s can be such a solution..
 
D

Deleted member 185088

Guest
I mean. Im sure SSD manufacturers could make a really really cheap ass SSD that performs somewhat on the level of a hard drive for absolute peanuts.

Make it an OEM only part.
That is interesting, SSDs are pretty expensive and don't seem to go lower than around 100€ per tb, even when comparing good SSDs with TLC with DRAM to rubbish DRAMless QLC the different isn't that high. It seems they are milking us.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
18,584 (2.68/day)
System Name AlderLake
Processor Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans
Memory 32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2
Display(s) 23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p
Case Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window
Audio Device(s) Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless
Keyboard RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock
A good thing. Really, who want's a slow spinner as OS drive these days.....
Keanu Reeves Thumbs Up GIF by Lionsgate


I think (almost?)all consumer OEM computers sold in Europe already have an SSD for the OS.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,539 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
I mean. Im sure SSD manufacturers could make a really really cheap ass SSD that performs somewhat on the level of a hard drive for absolute peanuts.

Make it an OEM only part.
QLC is about as cheap as it gets without reliability becoming peanut.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
199 (0.12/day)
System Name BUBSTER
Processor I7 13700K (6.1 GHZ XTU OC)
Motherboard Z690 Gigabyte Aorus Elite Pro
Cooling Arctic Freezer II 360 RGB
Memory 32GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB DDR4 4800MHz 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce RTX 3070 Super Dual OC
Storage Kingston KC 3000 PCIE4 1Tb + 2 Kingston KC 3000 1TB PCIE4 RAID 0 + 4 TB Crucial gen 4 +12 TB HDD
Display(s) Sony Bravia A85 j OLED
Case Corsair Carbide Air 540
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar Essence STX II
Power Supply Corsair AX 850 Titanium
Mouse Corsair Gaming M65 Pro RGB + Razr Taipan
Keyboard Asus ROG Strix Flare Cherry MX Red + Corsair Gaming K65 lux RGB
Software Windows 11 Pro x64
Is there anybody left that still uses HDD as boot drive???!!! I know i haven't for 10 years now.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,862 (0.59/day)
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Processor Ryzen 5700x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aero G R1.1 BiosF5g
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14 w/ NF-A15 HS-PWM Fan 1500rpm
Memory Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6800 - Asus Tuf
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair MP600 Pro LPX
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220-VB
Power Supply SuperFlower Leadex V Gold Pro 850W ATX Ver2.52
Mouse Mionix Naos Pro
Keyboard Corsair Strafe with browns
Software W10 22H2 Pro x64
Maybe MS should design an os to boot in 30s on a 5400rpm laptop hdd.
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
189 (0.03/day)
Location
Peterborough, UK
System Name IONE
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard ASUS STRIX B550-A Gaming
Cooling Noctua NH-U12S SE-AM4
Memory 128GB (4x32GB) Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX Black, PC4-25600 (3200), CMK128GX4M4E3200C16
Video Card(s) PNY GeForce RTX 3080 12GB
Storage Samsung 980 1TB NVMe (system), Lexar NM790 4TB NVMe (temp), 16x Seagate IronWolf 10TB RAID6
Display(s) Dell UP3017
Case Lian-Li PC-777B
Audio Device(s) Focal Alpha 65 Evo
Power Supply Corsair AX1200
Mouse Logitech M510
Keyboard Keychron Q10, brass plate, Kailh Box Summer switches and PBT Cherry keycaps
Software Xubuntu 22.04
Benchmark Scores N/A
Last time I had a spinning boot drive was in 2009. About time to make everyone use SSD's going forward.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,765 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,335 (3.91/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
I'd rather use eMMC over a hard drive, and that's surely cheaper for OEMs too, right?
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
2,671 (0.98/day)
A good thing. Really, who want's a slow spinner as OS drive these days.....
Keanu Reeves Thumbs Up GIF by Lionsgate


I think (almost?)all consumer OEM computers sold in Europe already have an SSD for the OS.
I do. I order my customizable laptops with cheap spinners and then swap them with SSD. Reason for that is OEM are pricing their SSD options with 100-200% markup on the drives. Yeah, no, thanks!
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
5,479 (1.05/day)
Regarding the whole "just make SATA SSDs using lower grade \ speed controllers" part.

Essentially, this boils down to supply and demand, to manufecturing volume. These things are now shifting, especially with M.2 form factor gaining very fat traction in laptops, in gaming consoles too.
I'm afraid the market might not be able to "afford" slow SATA based controllers with slow and high capacity NAND to go with it, as demand for quick parts is at all-time high, and that's what the NAND fabricators decide to make, as well as the controller manufecturers and designers.

What can happen is that you get drives similar to the SN770, where innovation beats common perception of what an SSD can do. of Algorithms and smart design beating the need for DRAM to retain performance on high levels. This is where I would also tell SSD enthusaists to wait and see how WD's new technology for smarter caching, as well as operating system's way of smarter caching APIs will come handy. These tools will save costs for high capacity SSDs in the future.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,759 (1.40/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
Problem is the SSDs have stagnated in price and size for a couple of years now...
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.20/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Great idea, the time when I don't have to ever wait for a HDD startup can't come soon enough.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
9,360 (3.39/day)
System Name Best AMD Computer
Processor AMD 7900X3D
Motherboard Asus X670E E Strix
Cooling In Win SR36
Memory GSKILL DDR5 32GB 5200 30
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse 7900XT (Watercooled)
Storage Corsair MP 700, Seagate 530 2Tb, Adata SX8200 2TBx2, Kingston 2 TBx2, Micron 8 TB, WD AN 1500
Display(s) GIGABYTE FV43U
Case Corsair 7000D Airflow
Audio Device(s) Corsair Void Pro, Logitch Z523 5.1
Power Supply Deepcool 1000M
Mouse Logitech g7 gaming mouse
Keyboard Logitech G510
Software Windows 11 Pro 64 Steam. GOG, Uplay, Origin
Benchmark Scores Firestrike: 46183 Time Spy: 25121
They are only talking about your OS drive. There is no reason to have a HDD as your boot drive. You can still get 128 or 256 GB SATA drives on the cheap so I see them giving you 2 drives anyway with an HDD.
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,936 (0.47/day)
I mean. Im sure SSD manufacturers could make a really really cheap ass SSD that performs somewhat on the level of a hard drive for absolute peanuts.

Make it an OEM only part.
It's called QLC (when paired with DRAM-less controller on very small pseudo-SLC cache).
This combination can "achieve" HDD speeds.

But i replaced last HDD's years ago with ultra cheap 128-256GB SATA SSD's that cost less than 30€ back then for my relatives. Some of those models even had some DRAM cache.
Currently i see 120GB TLC based SATA SSD starting from 15€ a piece an i even have surplus of old SATA SSD's that i could give away for free as they don't cost much considering new cost 15€. Im sure many people have these laying around.

MS should have enforced this when Win11 came out not years later. I mean they forced a lot more restrictive TPM from the start and are starting to enforce MS account more heavily now.
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
339 (0.06/day)
Location
Wasteland
System Name Cast Lead™
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7600 CPU @ 3.50GHz
Motherboard Asus ROG STRIX H270F GAMING
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 LED
Memory G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) MSI Radeon RX 480 GAMING X 8G
Storage Seagate 1TB 7200 rpm
Display(s) LG 24MP59G
Case Green Z4
Audio Device(s) Realtek High Definition Audio
Power Supply Green 650 UK Gold
Software Windows 10™ Pro 64 bit
os on hdd is pain in the ass
 
Top