US Institutes GAA-FET Technology EDA Software Ban on China, Stalling sub-3nm Nodes

[btarunr]

The US Government has instituted a ban on supply of GAA-FET EDA software to China (the Chinese government and companies in China). Humans can no longer design every single circuit on chips with tens of billions of transistors, and so EDA (electronics design automation) software is used to micromanage design based broadly on what chip architects want. Synopsys, Cadence, and Siemens are major EDA software suppliers. Intel is rumored to use an in-house EDA software that it doesn't sell, although this could change with the company roping in third-party foundries, such as TSMC, for cutting-edge logic chips (which will need the software to make sense of Intel's designs).

GAA or "gates-all-around" technology is vital to building transistors in the 3 nm and 2 nm silicon fabrication nodes. Samsung is already using GAA for its 3 nm node, while TSMC intends to use it with its 2N (2 nm) node. Intel is expected to use it with its Intel 20A (20 angstrom, or 2 nanometers) node. Both Intel and TSMC will debut nodes powered by GAAFETs for mass-production in 2024. The US Government has already banned the sales of EUV lithography machines to China, as well as machines fabricating 3D NAND flash chips with greater than 128 layers or 14 nm. In the past, technology embargoes have totally stopped China from copying or reverse-engineering western tech, or luring Taiwanese engineers armed with industry secrets away on the promise of wealth and a comfortable life in the Mainland.



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[lexluthermiester]

This might stir the pot a little bit. China's government can't be happy..

 

[Fourstaff]

This might stir the pot a little bit. China's government can't be happy..

Not sure if they have been happy since 2015 ...

We have a full blown technology war here and the consumers are starting to feel the effects.

 

[tabascosauz]

@btarunr oh you sly joker you

In the past, technology embargoes have totally stopped China from copying or reverse-engineering western tech, or luring Taiwanese engineers armed with industry secrets away on the promise of wealth and a comfortable life in the Mainland.

I don't know who in the US government believed the private sector could ever be trusted to keep a secret

 

[lexluthermiester]

Not sure if they have been happy since 2015 ...

We have a full blown technology war here and the consumers are starting to feel the effects.

Good points. Still, this one has to sting a little bit more than the other limitations imposed in the last 7 years.

 

[Chaitanya]

This might stir the pot a little bit. China's government can't be happy..

CCP is angry at everything and they keep poking their noses where it doesnt belong.

 

[gQx]

so a software? looks like china can tackle that problem with a little work

 

[GuiltySpark]

CCP is angry at everything and they keep poking their noses where it doesnt belong.

what are these places you are talking about? make some examples.

so a software? looks like china can tackle that problem with a little work

those software are not that simple.

 

[MarsM4N]

those software are not that simple.

USB stick & 7 minutes. Done.

 

[Chaitanya]

what are these places you are talking about? make some examples.

India cannot afford US intent of dividing and ruling Asia - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[hsew]

Honestly can’t tell if that last line was sarcasm

 

[TechLurker]

This will definitely hurt China. They are already dealing with heavy corruption across all the tech-startups they financed through the Big Fund, and an in-depth investigation has revealed that almost no progress was made in their own attempted homegrown tech sector (which saw a ton of tech startups, but almost none delivering), barring the recent independent GPU and use of adapted ARM designs, with experts stating that a lot of it has to do with the Chinese' lack of innovation and talent due to fearing failure and retaliation; they're just copying what they can with minimal understanding and trying to adapt it to fit their needs.

Honestly can’t tell if that last line was sarcasm

It's actually something China has been promising Taiwanese tech engineers and developers, trying to get them to betray Taiwan and lend their talents to develop China's own tech sector. There was even a small scandal about a year back of an ex-TSMC engineer being poached by China, but being arrested by Taiwanese enforcement before he could go to the mainland, having illegally taken some documents from TSMC with him. And a year or two further back, there was a small tech piece covering the cushy lives Taiwanese traitors were given for awhile, before it was taken away from them if they couldn't successfully implement and integrate their knowhow.

It's also not limited to Taiwan; China also has tried courting other tech professionals from around the world. There was a similar scandal in the US some time back too, and I believe another one in France.

 

[mechtech]

“Humans can no longer design every single circuit on chips with tens of billions of transistors, and so EDA (electronics design automation) software is used to micromanage design based broadly on what chip architects want.”

China has enough people to do this with human power.

 

[btarunr]

USB stick & 7 minutes. Done.

Allegedly, the software user (eg: TSMC) doesn't get a copy of the software to use on a local machine. The user gets a login to a virtual desktop over VPN, and the software runs on a VDI server owned by Siemens/Synopsys/Cadence. You also pay them for their compute power.

I don't know if this is a 100% foolproof solution.

 

[Tropick]

Allegedly, the software user (eg: TSMC) doesn't get a copy of the software to use on a local machine. The user gets a login to a virtual desktop over VPN, and the software runs on a VDI server owned by Siemens/Synopsys/Cadence. You also pay them for their compute power.

I don't know if this is a 100% foolproof solution.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to bash Siemens/Synopsis/Cadence, this is just what I think when any company says their virtualized, remote security solution is able to prevent unauthorized access/IP theft.

 

[sepheronx]

CCP is angry at everything and they keep poking their noses where it doesnt belong.

I know another country south of me who has done that and worst in the last 30 years.

I guess we need to sanction them too and screw the global economy even more.

 

[btarunr]

View attachment 259448
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to bash Siemens/Synopsis/Cadence, this is just what I think when any company says their virtualized, remote security solution is able to prevent unauthorized access/IP theft.

Sure, you can steal login credentials, but that's not going to get you the software's program files or installer. If you can make it through the login, IP whitelist, token, etc., all you see is a virtual desktop with a shortcut that launches the program, you don't have the privilege to open anything other than some user-level folders. This is how big corporations handle proprietary applications these days.

 

[MarsM4N]

Sure, you can steal login credentials, but that's not going to get you the software's program files or installer. If you can make it through the login, IP whitelist, token, etc., all you see is a virtual desktop with a shortcut that launches the program, you don't have the privilege to open anything other than some user-level folders. This is how big corporations handle proprietary applications these days.

The weak spot is & will always be the the human element. Everybody has it's price, and with the biggest economy in your back, bribes can reach very convincing levels.

 

[R-T-B]

The weak spot is & will always be the the human element. Everybody has it's price, and with the biggest economy in your back, bribes can reach very convincing levels.

This is always true. Regulations like this make it harder, but not impossible to get tech. In short they are a stalling tactic. But tech is a race. And in races, stalling tactics work.

 

[Mistral]

Eh, "the Chinese government and companies in China"? With the CCPs policy of civil-military fusion, it's practically one and the same.