• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

ASRock X670E Steel Legend Motherboard Needs Hundreds of Seconds at First Boot or Clear CMOS to Train Memory

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,298 (7.53/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
At this point, we don't know if this is a limitation at AMD's level or ASRock's, but someone with access to a retail ASRock X670E Steel Legend motherboard, with all its packaged paraphernalia in place, spotted an interesting sticker covering the board's four DDR5 DIMM slots. The sticker has some info on the ideal DIMM slot selection for dual-channel memory (4x sub-channels); but what catches our eye is a table which states just how long the motherboard will take to train the memory the first time it's booted up, or after a clear-CMOS operation (where your BIOS settings are erased).

The table says that a typical setup with two 16 GB modules (read: two single-rank modules in a 1 DIMM per channel/1DPC configuration), takes 100 seconds to train (or until first boot). Two 32 GB modules (typically a pair of dual-rank modules in 1DPC configuration) take 200 seconds, as do four 16 GB modules (four single-rank modules in a 2DPC configuration). The least optimal config, four dual-rank modules in a 2DPC configuration, takes a whopping 400 seconds (almost 7 minutes) to train. That's 100 to 400 seconds of a black screen, or no display signal, enough to unnerve anyone and assume something is DOA.



Update Sep 2nd: The source behind this story confirmed that this is an ASRock-level issue, and that it's been "fixed" with the latest BIOS.

Update Sep 8th: This has been fixed according to ASRock.



Here's the kicker—since UEFI BIOS updates typically clear CMOS, you'll have yourselves some nerve-racking hundred(s) of seconds until the display lights up, letting you know that the BIOS update went through. Interestingly, we haven't yet seen anything to suggest that memory overclock (which involves dozens of reboots and re-training of memory), takes hundreds of seconds—not unless you clear CMOS for some reason.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2022
Messages
59 (0.06/day)
The Fury X will be an overclocker's dream, and so will AM5!
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2021
Messages
281 (0.21/day)
If this is true generally for most or all am5 motherboards, I’ll be avoiding first gen am5 like the plague until these issues are resolved.

I used to be an early adopter but these days I’m loathe to early adopt new platforms anyways, and let the early adopters aka beta testers give feedback to the motherboard companies so that the bugs are worked out. I also don’t run beta OSes on my phones or tablets anymore either.

I just want stability and good usability.
 

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,298 (7.53/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
How about 2x8GB? Less memory faster system :)
I think 100 secs, since those are going to be a pair of single-rank modules in 1DPC config.
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
4,670 (2.61/day)
Location
Ex-usa | slava the trolls
Sorry but what does "train" memory mean?

Also, what is 1 DIMM per channel? One DIMM of DDR5 has two channels, two DIMMs is effectively 4x32-bit :confused:
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
10,845 (1.74/day)
Location
Austin Texas
System Name stress-less
Processor 9800X3D @ 5.42GHZ
Motherboard MSI PRO B650M-A Wifi
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory 64GB DDR5 6400 1:1 CL30-36-36-76 FCLK 2200
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 FE
Storage 2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s) Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s) Yes
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse DeathadderV2 X Hyperspeed
Keyboard 65% HE Keyboard
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
400 seconds? what is it doing for that long exactly
 

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,298 (7.53/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
Sorry but what does "train" memory mean?

Also, what is 1 DIMM per channel? One DIMM of DDR5 has two channels, two DIMMs is effectively 4x32-bit :confused:
A DDR5 module has 1 channel, and 2 sub-channels. Too many people think DDR5 is "dual-channel on a stick" or that Alder Lake and Raphael are "quad-channel" processors. They're not.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,862 (0.59/day)
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Processor Ryzen 5700x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aero G R1.1 BiosF5g
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14 w/ NF-A15 HS-PWM Fan 1500rpm
Memory Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6800 - Asus Tuf
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair MP600 Pro LPX
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220-VB
Power Supply SuperFlower Leadex V Gold Pro 850W ATX Ver2.52
Mouse Mionix Naos Pro
Keyboard Corsair Strafe with browns
Software W10 22H2 Pro x64
If this is to improve performance stability and reliability by automatically letting the cpu/ram/mobo do it’s thing then that’s cool.
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
4,670 (2.61/day)
Location
Ex-usa | slava the trolls
A DDR5 module has 1 channel, and 2 sub-channels. Too many people think DDR5 is "dual-channel on a stick" or that Alder Lake and Raphael are "quad-channel" processors. They're not.

Well, I though it has been officially stated as such. CPU-Z even changed its tab in order to facilitate the change:

1662049037140.png


Previously, it always showed Dual instead of 2 x 64-bit.
 

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,298 (7.53/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
Well, I though it has been officially stated as such. CPU-Z even changed its tab in order to facilitate the change:

View attachment 260253

Previously, it always showed Dual instead of 2 x 64-bit.
Exactly. DDR4 has 1 channel, no sub-channels, and a 64-bit wide path (72-bit with ECC). DDR5 has 1 channel and two sub-channels, with two 32-bit paths (40-bit with ECC, each). In our interactions with AMD since Rembrandt (their first CPU with DDR5), they refer to DDR5 as being 1 channel per DIMM, and two sub-channels per channel.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
2,025 (0.33/day)
Processor RyZen R9 3950X
Motherboard ASRock X570 Taichi
Cooling Coolermaster Master Liquid ML240L RGB
Memory 64GB DDR4 3200 (4x16GB)
Video Card(s) RTX 3050
Storage Samsung 2TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE276Q, VE278Q and VK278Q triple 27” 1920x1080
Case Zulman MS800
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic 650W
VR HMD Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest V1, Oculus Quest 2
Software Windows 11 64bit
And if you have 64GB,…..?
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Messages
213 (0.11/day)
Usually after 30 seconds I consider the training failed. Its going to be painful to overclock memory on AM5 if this is the case for all MBs.

uhh, than i ll stay with Alder Lake, i hate waiting for something to happen.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,329 (1.08/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory 32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) Topping DX5, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse G305
Keyboard Wooting HE60
VR HMD Valve Index
Software Win 10
If this is true generally for most or all am5 motherboards, I’ll be avoiding first gen am5 like the plague until these issues are resolved.

I used to be an early adopter but these days I’m loathe to early adopt new platforms anyways, and let the early adopters aka beta testers give feedback to the motherboard companies so that the bugs are worked out. I also don’t run beta OSes on my phones or tablets anymore either.

I just want stability and good usability.

It's inconvenient but given that it only happens on the first boot it's really a non-issue.

If the longer training time is being used to better tune the memory that's a superior approach IMO. First boot being longer in exchange for superior memory performance is more than a worthwhile trade-off.
 

ir_cow

Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
4,571 (0.77/day)
Location
USA
Also it says first boot. I assume that means every time you disconnect the power or clear cmos. Normal users are just going to have to wait a long time once. Anyone planning on overclocking memory, making any memory related changes in the BIOS could be waiting a while.

At least on Intel ADL, the more values you manually type in related the memory, the faster it boots. Could be true here as well. We don't know yet.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2021
Messages
281 (0.21/day)
Sorry but what does "train" memory mean?

Also, what is 1 DIMM per channel? One DIMM of DDR5 has two channels, two DIMMs is effectively 4x32-bit :confused:
It's inconvenient but given that it only happens on the first boot it's really a non-issue.

If the longer training time is being used to better tune the memory that's a superior approach IMO. First boot being longer in exchange for superior memory performance is more than a worthwhile trade-off.
But when you update the bios or you need to clear CMOS, memory will have to be retrained. Also, you don’t know what other conditions (such as applying an overclock or changing a voltage setting or any other setting in the bios) might trigger memory retraining. 400s is ridiculous.
 

ir_cow

Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
4,571 (0.77/day)
Location
USA
I wonder is AMD EXPO will fix this...or that is the real reason AMD is pushing this new memory profile because XMP doesn't work well with AM5.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,771 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
This is a bug that should already have been fixed, at least by AMD and ASRock's competitors.
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Messages
213 (0.11/day)
Why this training needed at all? I dont remenber in Pentium 3 and 4 era for any training. The system eithet started after new memory settings immediately or could not start.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,329 (1.08/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory 32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) Topping DX5, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse G305
Keyboard Wooting HE60
VR HMD Valve Index
Software Win 10
But when you update the bios or you need to clear CMOS, memory will have to be retrained. Also, you don’t know what other conditions (such as applying an overclock or changing a voltage setting or any other setting in the bios) might trigger memory retraining. 400s is ridiculous.

Only time memory training is needed is first boot, CMOS clear, and BIOS update.

In the span of 5-7 years 400 seconds is nothing, especially if it's providing a superior experience to shorter training times.

Why this training needed at all? I dont remenber in Pentium 3 and 4 era for any training. The system eithet started after new memory settings immediately or could not start.

To either set timings and test them or ensure that user set timings function. Without memory training the system would simply fail to boot in instances where the user set bad timings or an XMP / EXPO profile doesn't work as you pointed out. That is not an acceptable option as people who aren't computer whizes will think the PC is broken and aren't aware that they could remove the CMOS battery. Mind you it's inconvenient to have to remove the battery in the first place. Memory training mostly gets rid of having to do that.
 
Top