Intel Announces Next-Generation 120 Gbps Thunderbolt Interface

[btarunr]

Intel has demonstrated an early prototype of next-generation Thunderbolt in action, aligned to the USB Implementers Forum's (USB-IF) release of the USB4 v2 specification this week. Next-generation Thunderbolt will deliver 80 gigabits per second (Gbps) of bi-directional bandwidth and enable up to 120 Gbps for the best display experience, providing up to three times the capability of today's technologies to meet the growing needs of content creators and gamers, all while maintaining compatibility with previous versions of Thunderbolt and USB.

"Intel has always been the industry pioneer and leader for wired connectivity solutions, and Thunderbolt is now the mainstream port on mobile PCs and integrated into three generations of Intel mobile CPUs. We're very excited to lead the industry forward with the next generation of Thunderbolt built on the USB4 v2 specification, advanced to this next generation by Intel and other USB Promoter Group members," said Jason Ziller, general manager of the Client Connectivity Division at Intel.



This prototype demonstration marks a major milestone in the journey to delivering next-generation Thunderbolt to the industry. The bandwidth needs of content creators and gamers are increasing significantly for high-resolution displays, low latency visuals, and the backup or transfer of huge video and data files. Next-generation Thunderbolt will deliver up to three times the capability of Thunderbolt 4 and make creating and gaming more efficient and immersive. In addition to supporting the latest version of USB4, the next generation of Thunderbolt will include improvements across a variety of areas including:

• Two times the total bandwidth of Thunderbolt 4 to 80 Gbps, while providing up to three times the bandwidth to 120 Gbps for video-intensive usages.
• Support for the newly released DisplayPort 2.1 for the best display experience.
• Two times the PCI Express data throughput for faster storage and external graphics.
• Works with existing passive cables up to 1 m via a new signaling technology.
• Compatible with previous versions of Thunderbolt, USB and DisplayPort.
• Supported by Intel's enabling and certification programs.

With the vision to make Thunderbolt available to everyone, Intel in 2019 contributed to the USB Promoter Group its Thunderbolt protocol specification, which served as the basis for USB4. As a leader in this industry group, Intel has worked to extend the performance of USB4 to the next level.

Intel has a long history of leading the industry in I/O innovation. Intel works closely with PC, accessory and cable partners to deliver the most advanced and complete wired connectivity solution through dedicated enabling and testing programs. All Thunderbolt products undergo stringent certification testing, and upon passing can use the Thunderbolt name and logo royalty-free on devices or in marketing. That's why the Thunderbolt logo provides a simple, easily recognized indicator of the best wired connectivity solutions for PCs and accessories.

Look for more detail on next-generation Thunderbolt's official brand name, features and capabilities in 2023.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site

 

[tyrael64]

It will be excellent for external graphics card!

 

[TheLostSwede]

I don't understand why Intel has to poopoo on USB4, as although the higher speeds are optional, no PC host controller at least, will deliver less than 40 Gbps.

 

[bonehead123]

Next-generation Thunderbolt will deliver 80 gigabits per second (Gbps) of bi-directional bandwidth and enable up to 120 Gbps

Sooooo.... does it provide 80Gbps or 120 ????

Knowing team blue, it will give you 80 now, then later 120, albeit with some new, uber-expensive TB4 or 5 cables.....that have to be "certified" by guess who

 

[TheLostSwede]

Based on Anandtech's pictures of the actual hardware Intel has right now, it's not quite ready.

Intel Builds On USB4 v2 for 120 Gbps Next Generation Thunderbolt

www.anandtech.com

 

[BArms]

Sooooo.... does it provide 80Gbps or 120 ????

Knowing team blue, it will give you 80 now, then later 120, albeit with some new, uber-expensive TB4 or 5 cables.....that have to be "certified" by guess who

Sounds like 120Gbps when it's only uni-directional, aka Displays.

 

[P4-630]

Sooooo.... does it provide 80Gbps or 120 ????

Knowing team blue, it will give you 80 now, then later 120, albeit with some new, uber-expensive TB4 or 5 cables.....that have to be "certified" by guess who

You unlock it with buying a "Turbo" voucher..

 

[TheLostSwede]

Intel made a video.

 

[Tek-Check]

I don't understand why Intel has to poopoo on USB4, as although the higher speeds are optional, no PC host controller at last, will deliver less than 40 Gbps.

True that. Silly of them. Grand Ego... My impression is that by "donating" the tech to USB, Intel demanded to retain primacy in minimally required implementation.

It is going to be interesting to see how PCIe lanes, DP and USB are wired and spec-ed.
PCIe Gen4
- it seems that it's Gen4 x4 on one port, so each port gets 64 Gbps of PCIe data (this will finally deliver a bit better external graphics performance)
- if each port needs 64 Gbps of PCIe data, PCIe PHY on TB5 chip is Gen5 x4 (via CPU) or Gen4 x8 (via chipset) to enable this, or embedded on 15th Gen CPUs
USB4
- will it be USB4 20 or USB4 40?
- as USB4 and DP 2.1 now use a common PHY, will USB4 controller be moved from PCIe switch nearer to DP lanes?
DP 2.1
- for DP 2.1, they need to wire two full DP 2.1 PHY from CPU/GPU to provide 80 Gbps on each port
- DP 2.1 is curious. as dymanic bandwidth will be 120 Gbps. If two ports are used for video, one provides up to 80 Gbps and another one is limited to 40 Gbps
- in dynamic rebalance mode, they can operate one port with UHBR20 and the other one with UHBR10, or both ports at UHBR13.5.
- they cannot operate both ports at UHBR20 and UHBR13.5 at the same time, as this exceeds 120 Gbps

Recent Meteor Lake mobile chipset slide showed TB4, so should we expect TB5 on 15th gen laptops first? Any thoughts?

 

[Tom Yum]

Sooooo.... does it provide 80Gbps or 120 ????

Knowing team blue, it will give you 80 now, then later 120, albeit with some new, uber-expensive TB4 or 5 cables.....that have to be "certified" by guess who

The underlying tech (USB 4 V2) supports 4 lanes of 40Gb/s. That is normally configured to be symmetrically bidirectional (80/80), but you can also configure it to use 120/40, which is where the 120Gb/s advertised speed comes from. That config would work well for displays for example. It would use the same cable, but with the trade-off that the uplink back to the host is only 40Gb/s.

 

[Daven]

Right on cue with the USB-IF announcement.

Why do we need Intel again?

 

[HairyLobsters]

It will be excellent for external graphics card!

For the price it cost to get one, might as well just build a desktop.

 

[Tek-Check]

Why do we need Intel again?

Partly because their Thundebolt implementation has been more tightly spec-ed due to less optional features. USB-IF is to step up the game in clearing up the mess with different USB standards that have plagued the market, and us, for years, and implement the spec in a way that does not allow tech vendors to sell lower spec devices and ports hiding behind dubious marketing.

We already see now on some AM5 motherboards how this "optionality" plays out. Asrock and Asus have installed classical Thunderbolt 4 chips which they call "USB4" rather than simply saying Thunderbolt 4. It's a bit weird. We know that USB4 spec can support DP 2.0 (now 2.1) in Alt Mode over USB-C port, as AMD's Rembrandt APU was certified by VESA for 40 Gbps singal, but TB4 chips support tunnelled DP 1.4 only.

As we are still waiting for native USB4 chips to be installed on desktop motherboards, we currently cannot get 40 Gbps DP 2.0 signal on USB-C port from Ryzen 7000 CPUs. No vendor has done so. USB4 chips are necessary here, as Ryzen 7000 CPU do not have native USB4 support on die, only DP 2.0 over USB-C, which means we cannot get that native DP 2.0 signal out of CPU into USB-C port.

 

[Daven]

Partly because their Thundebolt implementation has been more tightly spec-ed due to less optional features. USB-IF is to step up the game in clearing up the mess with different USB standards that have plagued the market, and us, for years, and implement the spec in a way that does not allow tech vendors to sell lower spec devices and ports hiding behind dubious marketing.

We already see now on some AM5 motherboards how this "optionality" plays out. Asrock and Asus have installed classical Thunderbolt 4 chips which they call "USB4" rather than simply saying Thunderbolt 4. It's a bit weird. We know that USB4 spec can support DP 2.0 (now 2.1) in Alt Mode over USB-C port, as AMD's Rembrandt APU was certified by VESA for 40 Gbps singal, but TB4 chips support tunnelled DP 1.4 only.

As we are still waiting for native USB4 chips to be installed on desktop motherboards, we currently cannot get 40 Gbps DP 2.0 signal on USB-C port from Ryzen 7000 CPUs. No vendor has done so. USB4 chips are necessary here, as Ryzen 7000 CPU do not have native USB4 support on die, only DP 2.0 over USB-C, which means we cannot get that native DP 2.0 signal out of CPU into USB-C port.

I really would like these two protocols to merge, standardize with fewer iterations and be open source. Your comment makes it seem that is still far away.

 

[Tek-Check]

I really would like these two protocols to merge, standardize with fewer iterations and be open source. Your comment makes it seem that is still far away.

Essentially, there is nothing to merge anymore, as both use the same PHY and very similar features. Native USB4 host port should work even better than current TB4, as it supports DP 2.0.

 

[ir_cow]

PLEASE Intel call this Next Gen Thunderbolt officially

 

[Mussels]

Sooooo.... does it provide 80Gbps or 120 ????

Knowing team blue, it will give you 80 now, then later 120, albeit with some new, uber-expensive TB4 or 5 cables.....that have to be "certified" by guess who

I mean, you said it yourself

It can do 80/80 or 40/120

 

[hat]

Sounds like Intel still wants to one-up USB4 with their Thunderbolt crap that almost no one will use...