Eaton Unveils Pure Sine Wave Battery Backup for Uninterrupted Video Gaming

[WorringlyIndifferent]

and pray your OS isnt going to want to process updates on the way down

Imagine not immediately disabling and removing Windows Update as soon as your PC boots for the first time

 

[gomer501]

Wow, another version of the same crappy lead-acid UPS that they and their competitors have been selling for decades.... The only new thing is RGB garbage!!!

 

[trsttte]

VA ?? What ?? Watts ?

Volt*Amp which is equivalent to Watts + VoltAmpReactive. With modern and decent enough components connected to it they're aproximately the same (W = ~0.95 VA).

Take it as basically a more technical and correct way to describe the max power the ups can supply but also the way most likely to confuse or trick consumers.

Lol not even close, i did say it's to confuse and trick consumers after all

(let's pretend I was just explaining the units, those are correct )

 

[mechtech]

consumer - what do I do when UPS runs out of power in 15 minutes

Eaton - switch over to your secondary UPS , then your tertiary UPS

 

[v12dock]

consumer - what do I do when UPS runs out of power in 15 minutes

Eaton - switch over to your secondary UPS , then your tertiary UPS

You switch over to your RGB generator. Nothing like the sound of a diesel strobing to the RGB.

 

[Thorsthimble]

Complete with the stock gamer photo and really crappy photoshop insertion of the product. Oh boy...

 

[Denver]

Lol not even close, i did say it's to confuse and trick consumers after all

View attachment 267007

(let's pretend I was just explaining the units, those are correct )

It's just gymnastics with words to make the product look much better than it really is...

 

[Mistral]

That design reminds me of my PC case from 20 years ago...

I bet all the guys in Eaton's marketing department usually have their UPSs at home on top of their desks too.

 

[SN2716057]

"..the 1500 VA model provides up to 50 minutes or more of battery runtime."

Sure...at 125 Watt load it probably does. At least according to my APC BR1500G-GR.
I can only game for about 10 minutes b4 shut down.

And the only thing I kinda like is the detachable LCD screen. I do wonder if the LCD-screen can be turned-off cause on my ups it can't (night light!)

 

[_JP_]

I don't understand how this UPS is a better proposal than the Ellipse Pro, which would go for around the same price. UPSes go on the floor or shleves, so adding the detachable screen was actually a good idea, RGB was pointless, imo.

Are we going to forget when the power drops, so does the power for the internet modem? I guess I need a battery backup for that as well.

Eaton 3S Mini.

 

[mimagind]

I wonder why is there no UPS and PSU single unit combination available for desktop computers.
It would be more efficient by avoiding the multiple AC to DC back to AC and on to DC conversions and instead offer something similar to a laptop power supply experience.

 

[_JP_]

I wonder why is there no UPS and PSU single unit combination available for desktop computers.

Because the standard power-draw of a common desktop computer on regular usage is at least 10x higher than a laptop (both currently and historically), requiring a different type of batteries to handle the load and thus making Li-ion or Li-Po batteries unfit. The batteries that do work are bigger and to be mass produced, have a physical structure that makes them fine to fit in a box beside your desk, not in a desktop computer.
Also, a laptop's configuration is set by the manufacturer and, being known and locked, so is the respective battery capacity, which you then get to complain if it's not enough to suit your needs but can't really do anything about unless return the product to then get another marginally better one.
In a desktop, configurations vary wildly and so it never really made sense to adopt a standard (because desktops have more of those than laptops) for that aspect. Finish the setup, measure the whole system power draw and get the corresponding VA vs. runtime vs. budget combination.

 

[trsttte]

Because the standard power-draw of a common desktop computer on regular usage is at least 10x higher than a laptop (both currently and historically), requiring a different type of batteries to handle the load and thus making Li-ion or Li-Po batteries unfit. The batteries that do work are bigger and to be mass produced, have a physical structure that makes them fine to fit in a box beside your desk, not in a desktop computer.
Also, a laptop's configuration is set by the manufacturer and, being known and locked, so is the respective battery capacity, which you then get to complain if it's not enough to suit your needs but can't really do anything about unless return the product to then get another marginally better one.
In a desktop, configurations vary wildly and so it never really made sense to adopt a standard (because desktops have more of those than laptops) for that aspect. Finish the setup, measure the whole system power draw and get the corresponding VA vs. runtime vs. budget combination.

That's wrong, lithium batteries are perfectly fine for a Desktop ups and would make the units both last longer (both in terms of UPS function and durability/longevity) and be smaller and ligther. There are also several models in the market already with lithium batteries. Old school Lead based batteries are used because they are cheap and don't require much in terms of conditioning (lithium batteries need to be "exercised" from time to time for example, can't be kept static just trickle charging like lead acid ones). They are also the reason UPS can't keep the computer working for more than about 5 minutes.

It's just gymnastics with words to make the product look much better than it really is...

It's the same trick power supplies use when they can't deliver the full power on the 12V rail. The ups can deliver X ammount of power, just not usable power (active, but close enough)

 

[_JP_]

That's wrong, lithium batteries are perfectly fine for a Desktop ups and would make the units both last longer (both in terms of UPS function and durability/longevity) and be smaller and ligther. There are also several models in the market already with lithium batteries. Old school Lead based batteries are used because they are cheap and don't require much in terms of conditioning (lithium batteries need to be "exercised" from time to time for example, can't be kept static just trickle charging like lead acid ones). They are also the reason UPS can't keep the computer working for more than about 5 minutes.

Aaaand you didn't read what I was replying to. Which is okay and very common in this forum.
Anyway, no. You don't have many models of Lithium units of something that exists inside a desktop where you would find an ATX PSU. Reasons are what I stated.
You have 1~3U rackmount UPS or whole room monoliths that cost considerably more than your typical VLRA UPS. The former won't change and they don't get bigger/smaller because: A. Nobody would in their right mind think the TCO and ROI made sense (especially now) and B. Exactly what you said:

lithium batteries need to be "exercised" from time to time for example, can't be kept static just trickle charging like lead acid ones

Which is the whole point of a UPS: When power fails, you have 100% cap to drain. True for in-line, especially true for line-interactive.
Li-ion is not a savior when by the first time a full-power system is held by it, unless the battery pack is in cryo, it will lose at least 5% of it's full charge capacity from the current draw and resulting heat alone.
Remember, your usual Lithium combination does not take a punch of current the same way a Lead-Acid considers it a slap.
If the system is critical or draws a considerable amount of power, VRLA is still the way to go, even if it is environmentally not the greatest choice.

The only thing that I agree with you is that the units would be lighter, but in a UPS, does that really matter when it's the most stationary part of the system?

 

[cvaldes]

Ideally a UPS battery doesn't discharge: the power stays on.

A UPS basically gives the operator three choices when the power goes out: A.) wait for the power to come back on while there is still some battery charge left, B.) shut down the system gracefully to prevent damage to equipment and data or C.) buy time to give the operator the opportunity to switch to a different power source. The latter isn't really available to the typical residential user; it is available to many IT professionals who might have an on-site generator (often powered by a fossil fuel burning engine) to provide power.

UPS lead-acid batteries are designed to be used infrequently unlike lithium-ion batteries in cellphones and other personal electronics which are expected to be depleted in regular usage.

 

[caroline!]

VA ?? What ?? Watts ?

Volt*Amp which is equivalent to Watts + VoltAmpReactive. With modern and decent enough components connected to it they're aproximately the same (W = ~0.95 VA).

Take it as basically a more technical and correct way to describe the max power the ups can supply but also the way most likely to confuse or trick consumers.

With these it's usually VA * 0.6, some are better but in general with 1500VA units they're only 60% efficient.

Lol not even close, i did say it's to confuse and trick consumers after all

View attachment 267007

(let's pretend I was just explaining the units, those are correct )

Basically this.

Higher VA units might be better at converting power, mine is 3000VA/2100W for example, and it's an older unit from APC.

I wonder why is there no UPS and PSU single unit combination available for desktop computers.
It would be more efficient by avoiding the multiple AC to DC back to AC and on to DC conversions and instead offer something similar to a laptop power supply experience.

Standards. Sometimes they're great sometimes they stagnate everything.

Could be done with a 12VO PSU, with a DC input, but technically it'd be a proprietary design, not ATX compliant, and then not only you'd need to buy a PSU but also an external unit that feeds the power supply but also works as battery backup, the idea is fine but it'd be too complicated to implement, and expensive.

If the external unit outputs 12V then the internal would be way more simple, but then you have another issue, in order to connect both together you'd need thicker cables, for a 65 amp PSU the wires would have to be... 16 mm² in cross-section, that's... big. In comparison a mains cable typically has 1mm² wires inside, two or three of them. It wouldn't be an issue for industrial machinery but believe me a cable so thick in a desktop computer would look really out of place.
There's also the smaller wires + more pins way but it's kinda the same but more expensive when you think about it.

 

[cvaldes]

I wonder why is there no UPS and PSU single unit combination available for desktop computers.
It would be more efficient by avoiding the multiple AC to DC back to AC and on to DC conversions and instead offer something similar to a laptop power supply experience.

Not practical. You'd still need a UPS for other components (monitor, peripherals, networking equipment, etc.) that aren't powered off the computer's PSU.

An ATX power supply is already pretty big. You'd still have to stick the batteries someplace.

If you moved the entire power system outside the case, you'd end up with a mass of power cables going from the power unit to the case (motherboard, CPU, graphics cards, SATA, Molex, whatever) which have a high risk of damage/danger being exposed.

 

[trsttte]

With these it's usually VA * 0.6, some are better but in general with 1500VA units they're only 60% efficient.

I was thinking of the other side, any modern PSU should have a power factor well above 0.9 (it's also a base requirement for 80 plus, at least 0.9 power factor at full power - lower power is less total power regardless so doesn't matter for this case), but forgot to account for the usual manufacturer shenanigans (they allow for a much higher reactive current, can't think of the advantage of doing so other than marketing since they still need to dimension their electronics for the full current, maybe it helps with dimensioning the battery capacity? that would still be just a marketing move imo though).

The 0.6/60% is not efficiency, it's power factor

I wonder why is there no UPS and PSU single unit combination available for desktop computers.
It would be more efficient by avoiding the multiple AC to DC back to AC and on to DC conversions and instead offer something similar to a laptop power supply experience.

Fun fact, any PSU has a hold up time after AC power loss (by design, not like it just happened to be there), it's just too small to do anything usefull.

Like others mentioned, standards, praticality, etc, don't really cater to an UPS built in outside of very specific industrial level applications.

 

[caroline!]

I was thinking of the other side, any modern PSU should have a power factor well above 0.9 (it's also a base requirement for 80 plus, at least 0.9 power factor at full power - lower power is less total power regardless so doesn't matter for this case), but forgot to account for the usual manufacturer shenanigans (they allow for a much higher reactive current, can't think of the advantage of doing so other than marketing since they still need to dimension their electronics for the full current, maybe it helps with dimensioning the battery capacity? that would still be just a marketing move imo though).

The 0.6/60% is not efficiency, it's power factor



Fun fact, any PSU has a hold up time after AC power loss (by design, not like it just happened to be there), it's just too small to do anything usefull.

Like others mentioned, standards, praticality, etc, don't really cater to an UPS built in outside of very specific industrial level applications.

pF you're right I was thinking of 80+ for some reason.

If UPS manufacturers used watts by default, that'd be great. But yeah marketing believes "bigger number = better xd" so they go for VA and mislead some people, not everyone knows VA aren't equal to W in this case so they buy one thinking it'll support a 500 or 1000W load only to be disappointed when the power goes out.

 

[trsttte]

If UPS manufacturers used watts by default, that'd be great. But yeah marketing believes "bigger number = better xd" so they go for VA and mislead some people, not everyone knows VA aren't equal to W in this case so they buy one thinking it'll support a 500 or 1000W load only to be disappointed when the power goes out.

It would be less misleading but not a great solution either because low power factor products still exist that would trip the UPS if all you read was the active W part.

I think they should target being able to supply (almost) the entire power as either active or reactive and mention clearly the max/min power factor allowed with their total power VA rating. They do that in the spec sheet, but makes no sense advertising 1500VA when the UPS will only be able to supply 900W