Radeon RX 7000 Series Won't Use 16-pin 12VHPWR, AMD Confirms

[Vayra86]

The progress is in the performance per watt department, total performance is absolutely irrelevant in that sense. You could push the cards to use that amount of power for a long time, it's just that there was no reason to, couldn't gain any performance, now they can get gains so they do. The only people that benefit are the consumers, you don't have to wait two more years for that performance in a two slot card.

A good point. Still, that point does not disqualify that a new bar has been set and it will bleed to lower parts of the stack. Ampere was already fat, Ada went for the full brick.

And I do agree, 30% improvement on perf/w is impressive, but then that also confirms how shitty Samsung was.

 

[kapone32]

If your build cannot support a thicker card then you buy a slimmer card and sacrifice performance. Not to mention PCIe lanes are really not an issue anymore for desktops, SLI is dead, storage doesn't benefit much from speeds in the real world.

It's pretty clear that the 4090 cooler was overbuilt and Nvidia cut down the power limit at the very end, maybe expecting outrage, maybe because the performance gains were not enough to justify it. But it gives you the benefit of the card being very quiet.


So then you go buy the low end if you do not want leading edge performance.



Did you guys forget to look at performance per watt?
View attachment 267157

4090 is the most power efficient card on the planet by a wide margin. You can expect lower end cards using the same architecture to also be very fast and small.

Well here is a real world scenario, thanks to Epic. I upgraded from WIn 10 to Win 11. I have 6 drives with Game files on all of them. What is true is that having a RAID 0 card is great for transferring files which is what you have to do as you will no longer has access to your downloaded files with Epic. I have 87 Games with Epic. There is also the fact that I make videos and sometimes I edit them.

Using the 4090 is not a good example because regardless of the efficiency those cards will not be faster than the 4090 period. So again why did they do this? If I know Nvidia they will release a driver during the launch of the RDNA3 cards that unlocks the voltage and allows that 600W limit anyway to try to get back the perception of being the fastest. The fact remains though that there was obviously no sane consumer input on these megalithic cards.

 

[ZetZet]

Well here is a real world scenario, thanks to Epic. I upgraded from WIn 10 to Win 11. I have 6 drives with Game files on all of them. What is true is that having a RAID 0 card is great for transferring files which is what you have to do as you will no longer has access to your downloaded files with Epic. I have 87 Games with Epic. There is also the fact that I make videos and sometimes I edit them.

Using the 4090 is not a good example because regardless of the efficiency those cards will not be faster than the 4090 period. So again why did they do this? If I know Nvidia they will release a driver during the launch of the RDNA3 cards that unlocks the voltage and allows that 600W limit anyway to try to get back the perception of being the fastest. The fact remains though that there was obviously no sane consumer input on these megalithic cards.

So your real world scenario is hoarding. That's like complaining that a 10000 book collection doesn't fit in a one bedroom apartment properly.

They did this to push the performance to never before seen levels in computer graphics. Sane consumers are buying them out everywhere you look.

 

[ARF]

That's just wrong. The connector itself is overkill for 50amps. You only have 8 amps per pin, can do 8 amps on a hair.

The issue with the connector has nothing to do with the current or the heat, the only issue is mechanical, it doesn't have a proper latch to resist getting partially pulled out if someone really bends the cables.

The "bending issue" is a nonsense. There is no bending issue and it is not the root cause for melting pins. Sounds like throwing the blame on the end user rather than accepting the fault - the PCI organisation and its engineers.

 

[ZetZet]

The "bending issue" is a nonsense. There is no bending issue and it is not the root cause for melting pins. Sounds like throwing the blame on the end user rather than accepting the fault - the PCI organisation and its engineers.

Yeah, it was stress testing by PCI-SIG. They bent them on purpose and they inserted them too many times on purpose if you read your own image that you posted it would be clear, but I guess that's too hard.

Like I said, mechanically this connector sucks ass, because it doesn't consider that users can insert it in a way that doesn't properly engage all the pins. They could have easily solved it by having two latches on both sides instead of just in the middle.

 

[ARF]

Yeah, it was stress testing by PCI-SIG. They bent them on purpose and they inserted them too many times on purpose

Probably the "bending" only accelerates the fatality. Doesn't make the idea to pass so high current through so narrow space a good one.

 

[ZetZet]

Probably the "bending" only accelerates the fatality. Doesn't make the idea to pass so high current through so narrow space a good one.

50-55Amps isn't really that high current. You can easily pass that through a connector that's even smaller. XT60 is rated for 60 Amps.

Like I said, electrically this connector is extremely overkill, just like everything else on PCI side. It's just that mechanically they really didn't think it through.

 

[ARF]

50-55Amps isn't really that high current. You can easily pass that through a connector that's even smaller. XT60 is rated for 60 Amps.

Like I said, electrically this connector is extremely overkill, just like everything else on PCI side. It's just that mechanically they really didn't think it through.

Err, why are the PCIe 6 and 8-pin connectors so much thicker?
And why aren't there any reports for melted 6 or 8-pin connector?

 

[ZetZet]

Err, why are the PCIe 6 and 8-pin connectors so much thicker?
And why aren't there any reports for melted 6 or 8-pin connector?

View attachment 267170

8 pin PCIe connector is insanely overkill. It passes 4-5 amps through a pin that's rated for 13 amps. But that also means that it is way chunkier and much harder to bend out of place.

Yes this is a 6 pin, but the 2 extra pins in the 8 pin do not carry current.

 

[ARF]

8 pin PCIe connector is insanely overkill. It passes 4-5 amps through a pin that's rated for 13 amps. But that also means that it is way chunkier and much harder to bend out of place.

Yes this is a 6 pin, but the 2 extra pins in the 8 pin do not carry current.

No, it's not an "overkill". Its chunkiness guarantees stability and safety.

 

[ZetZet]

No, it's not an "overkill". Its chunkiness guarantees stability and safety.

Rating is what guarantees stability and safety. I guess you do not understand what rating means. Rating in terms of all electrical stuff means that it can do that 24/7/365.

I'm going to repeat myself another time, maybe you will read it this time, electrically this connector is more than fine. If it had enough mechanical stability to not bend out of place. They could have designed it to have proper seating, maybe a latch. Maybe they should have used what Molex has already designed instead of trying to invent a new plug. https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/crimp_housings/0430201600 Notice how it has two latches on both sides.


https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/crimp_housings/0430251610 To be fair they also have a connector with one latch.

 

[kapone32]

So your real world scenario is hoarding. That's like complaining that a 10000 book collection doesn't fit in a one bedroom apartment properly.

They did this to push the performance to never before seen levels in computer graphics. Sane consumers are buying them out everywhere you look.

Yes hoarding free Games, is there an issue? It is my PC to do with as I please. Now I don't know if AMD is going to be the same size but I will say the same thing if they are. Do you realize that Alpahcool have a dual slot water block for this card.

As innovative as these seem it feels more like Horsepower more than anything else. Let's use Car racing as an example in WEC the Glickenhaus and Alpine are faster and have bigger engines than the Toyota but the Toyota has won more races in the last 4 years than both cars combined because it has refined it's hybrid tech just like the Acura in IMSA. So as sane as Gamers seem could it be people caught up in the propaganda around these cards?

We will see as time goes on how many people have issues as the other side of the coin is that the thousands that have been sold are 99.9% installed in PSUs that don't support ATX 3.0 and there are plenty of people that watch Youtube and are going to want to OC their cards too. There are already several posts on TPU bemoaning the voltage lock. I have said this before and I will say it again $1600 is morally reprehensible for a GPU that has no mining value for mining prices. I was also unimpressed with the 45 FPS in CP2077 @4K and before you go on about DLSS3 I turned on FSR on my 6800XT and was getting 165 FPS @ 4K High using 235 Watts GPU power. There is no doubt that this is a Unicorn product that was not well thought out and the connector is the smoking gun.

 

[ZetZet]

We will see as time goes on how many people have issues as the other side of the coin is that the thousands that have been sold are 99.9% installed in PSUs that don't support ATX 3.0

You don't need ATX 3.0... 4090 has smaller power spikes than 3000 series cards.

And the morality comment really just makes me chuckle. People will buy what they want. People are getting richer, PC gaming is becoming a larger hobby than ever before. We have the first generation of gamers who are growing up having played games their entire life, so it's perfectly normal that dropping 2-5 thousand on a hobby isn't out of the question for them. If anything 1600 is still pretty cheap. I would expect PC hardware to keep going up in price and the average price of the whole computer to go from what used to be 1000 closer towards 3000, maybe even 5000.

Let's not forget all the content creators and artists.

 

[beedoo]

If your build cannot support a thicker card then you buy a slimmer card and sacrifice performance. Not to mention PCIe lanes are really not an issue anymore for desktops, SLI is dead, storage doesn't benefit much from speeds in the real world.

So then you go buy the low end if you do not want leading edge performance.

Did you guys forget to look at performance per watt?

Nope; if the card doesn't fit - cut a hole in the case, or buy a bigger case.

Nope; don't care about performance per watt - or $ for that matter.

 

[ZetZet]

Nope; if the card doesn't fit - cut a hole in the case, or buy a bigger case.

Nope; don't care about performance per watt - or $ for that matter.

I agree. If your budget allows for it caring about slots and case sizes is just stupid/petty behaviour. People seem afraid of change or something. It's like when console gamers complained about the size of PS5. Like who the f cares as long as it plays games good and runs quiet...

 

[N3M3515]

Nvidia they will release a driver during the launch of the RDNA3 cards that unlocks the voltage and allows that 600W limit anyway to try to get back the perception of being the fastest.

600W for what? a 2% increase?

 

[kapone32]

600W for what? a 2% increase?

Keep in mind that is currently with the voltage locked.

 

[Ruru]

Absolutely a wise choice. Having 2 or 3 classic PCIe connectors doesn't take THAT much space from a PCB that it needs to be replaced with a fire hazard.

 

[demirael]

Yes, so why not buy a lower tier card then?

I don't understand the sentiment at all. Do you want Nvidia to use magic and pull performance out of their ass like a rabbit while still maintaining 2 slot cards?

Hybrid cooling. It's not magic.

Hi,
Slots really isn't the bad thing here I do remember the silly looking asus with noctua heatsink/ fans release
It's the length and height that is getting really stupid.

Silly looking but the best cooler of the generation.

 

[Scrizz]

Why do you care about that? Just buy lower tier cards if that's an issue. Man people get so weird, it's like religion all over again.

chill out lol
Why do we care what someone else wants? Maybe instead of complaining about someone else's use case we can bring solutions.
For example, why don't we suggest a liquid cooled option. That way they get the performance they want and also get to use the other expansion slots.

 

[ZetZet]

chill out lol
Why do we care what someone else wants? Maybe instead of complaining about someone else's use case we can bring solutions.
For example, why don't we suggest a liquid cooled option. That way they get the performance they want and also get to use the other expansion slots.

Then you will have them complain about it costing extra. You can't win here. People have some entitlement issues or something, if they want something, but can't afford it or it's not entirely to their liking they complain. It's like when people freaked out about hearing Nvidia designing a 600W card, like why the f does anyone care? If it's not for you don't buy it.

 

[ARF]

Rating is what guarantees stability and safety. I guess you do not understand what rating means. Rating in terms of all electrical stuff means that it can do that 24/7/365.

I'm going to repeat myself another time, maybe you will read it this time, electrically this connector is more than fine. If it had enough mechanical stability to not bend out of place. They could have designed it to have proper seating, maybe a latch. Maybe they should have used what Molex has already designed instead of trying to invent a new plug. https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/crimp_housings/0430201600 Notice how it has two latches on both sides.

Rating can be paid and fake. Electrical means AND mechanical. Mechanical and electrical. There are weak joints on those thin pins and they need mechanical strength.
It is you who don't understand the topic deeply.

 

[ZetZet]

Rating can be paid and fake. Electrical means AND mechanical. Mechanical and electrical. There are weak joints on those thin pins and they need mechanical strength.
It is you who don't understand the topic deeply.

There are tests that are required to get the rating. It's simply easier to sabotage this connector than others. I agree that the connector didn't account for the main reason of why things fail, the user.

 

[AnotherReader]

So your real world scenario is hoarding. That's like complaining that a 10000 book collection doesn't fit in a one bedroom apartment properly.

They did this to push the performance to never before seen levels in computer graphics. Sane consumers are buying them out everywhere you look.

Doesn't every new generation of GPUs push the performance to never before seen levels?

 

[Gundem]

Hi,
Slots really isn't the bad thing here I do remember the silly looking asus with noctua heatsink/ fans release
It's the length and height that is getting really stupid.

Agreed. Looking ugly even in full size ATX cases.