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- Jan 29, 2021
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That's on Europe. Nobody forced them to have insane VAT such as Poland's 25%.700 USD = 700 EUR (with tax), bring back price parity!
That's on Europe. Nobody forced them to have insane VAT such as Poland's 25%.700 USD = 700 EUR (with tax), bring back price parity!
Well, if anything, three-fiddy is the amount you should never give!I would give them... tree-fiddy! Nothing more, nothing less!![]()
AMD neglected this space for far too long now, and that hurts me deeply. The crazy things I had to do in OpenCL just to stay away from proprietary solutions... Man!My personal problem is that I cannot get rid of nVidia gpus.
Apart from the fact that I do like the RT tech and would never buy an alternative with lower RT performance, the CUDA acceleration for the CAD/Civil Engineering apps cannot be ignored.
If only AMD had something similar that would be useful to most of us.
Because right now we have no alternative.
Processor | AMD Ryzen 7 3700X |
---|---|
Motherboard | MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK |
Cooling | AMD Wraith Prism |
Memory | Team Group Dark Pro 8Pack Edition 3600Mhz CL16 |
Video Card(s) | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 FE |
Storage | Kingston A2000 1TB + Seagate HDD workhorse |
Display(s) | Samsung 50" QN94A Neo QLED |
Case | Antec 1200 |
Power Supply | Seasonic Focus GX-850 |
Mouse | Razer Deathadder Chroma |
Keyboard | Logitech UltraX |
Software | Windows 11 |
Actually that's part of the problem Nvidia got themselves into. Paying way over the money for bleeding edge node unlike AMD sticking to proven and less expensive N5. Nvidia is screwed on pricing, they simply cannot compete, RDNA3 cost AMD a lot less money to manufacture and even at $899 for 7900XT they are making a nice healthy margin. I would not pay more than $799 for 4080, but even if it were I would most likely still get 7900XT(X). Nvidia doesn't deserve a red cent of mine.4N must be really expensive
Processor | Intel® Core™ i7-13700K |
---|---|
Motherboard | Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX |
Cooling | Noctua NH-D15 |
Memory | 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5 |
Video Card(s) | ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo |
Storage | 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD |
Display(s) | Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync |
Case | NZXT PHANTOM410-BK |
Audio Device(s) | Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe |
Power Supply | Corsair 850W |
Mouse | Logitech Hero G502 SE |
Software | Windows 11 Pro - 64bit |
Benchmark Scores | 30FPS in NFS:Rivals |
System Name | Starlifter :: Dragonfly |
---|---|
Processor | i7 2600k 4.4GHz :: i5 10400 |
Motherboard | ASUS P8P67 Pro :: ASUS Prime H570-Plus |
Cooling | Cryorig M9 :: Stock |
Memory | 4x4GB DDR3 2133 :: 2x8GB DDR4 2400 |
Video Card(s) | PNY GTX1070 :: Integrated UHD 630 |
Storage | Crucial MX500 1TB, 2x1TB Seagate RAID 0 :: Mushkin Enhanced 60GB SSD, 3x4TB Seagate HDD RAID5 |
Display(s) | Onn 165hz 1080p :: Acer 1080p |
Case | Antec SOHO 1030B :: Old White Full Tower |
Audio Device(s) | Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro - Bose Companion 2 Series III :: None |
Power Supply | FSP Hydro GE 550w :: EVGA Supernova 550 |
Software | Windows 10 Pro - Plex Server on Dragonfly |
Benchmark Scores | >9000 |
Processor | Ryzen 7 5800X3D |
---|---|
Motherboard | Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite |
Cooling | Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE |
Memory | 2x16 GB Crucial Ballistix 3600 CL16 Rev E @ 3800 CL16 |
Video Card(s) | RTX3080 Ti FE |
Storage | SX8200 Pro 1 TB, Plextor M6Pro 256 GB, WD Blue 2TB |
Display(s) | LG 34GN850P-B |
Case | SilverStone Primera PM01 RGB |
Audio Device(s) | SoundBlaster G6 | Fidelio X2 | Sennheiser 6XX |
Power Supply | SeaSonic Focus Plus Gold 750W |
Mouse | Endgame Gear XM1R |
Keyboard | Wooting Two HE |
23 actually.That's on Europe. Nobody forced them to have insane VAT such as Poland's 25%.
Processor | 7800X3D |
---|---|
Motherboard | MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi |
Cooling | Thermalright Peerless Assassin |
Memory | 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000 |
Video Card(s) | ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming |
Storage | Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB |
Display(s) | Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440) |
Case | Lian Li A3 mATX White |
Audio Device(s) | Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1 |
Power Supply | EVGA Supernova G2 750W |
Mouse | XTRFY M42 |
Keyboard | Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II |
Software | W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC |
You've been making perfect sense. The model number in the tier/stack of products does tell us a lot about its positioning, intent, target audience, etc. Its what the whole marketing game is about, denial has no place here, even if there are some outliers to what is an established norm.Should I have made it clear that I was referring to best single gaming card of the gen?
No I shouldn't...
I see what you did thereClearly a PERFECT opportunity for AMD to pull the rug from under Nvidia's feet an crush them and steal tons of market share with their $650 RX 7900 XTX and $575 Radeon RX 7900 XT.
System Name | Mean machine |
---|---|
Processor | 12900k |
Motherboard | MSI Unify X |
Cooling | Noctua U12A |
Memory | 7600c34 |
Video Card(s) | 4090 Gamerock oc |
Storage | 980 pro 2tb |
Display(s) | Samsung crg90 |
Case | Fractal Torent |
Audio Device(s) | Hifiman Arya / a30 - d30 pro stack |
Power Supply | Be quiet dark power pro 1200 |
Mouse | Viper ultimate |
Keyboard | Blackwidow 65% |
I agree that pascal was a thing of beauty, but honestly, do we REALLY care about how much nvidia is charging us per mm of die? I don't frankly. I check the performance and the price, whether they use a huge or small die is kinda irrelevant to me.Absolutely the die was smaller! But that's entirely the beauty of Pascal. It did so much more with so little. That's a shrink The Way It's Meant to be Played. Part of that is also that Nvidia had been stuck on 28nm for só long.
Today, a shrink enables an immediate maxing out of the silicon and then it is still not enough, so we need retarded power targets.
Processor | 7800X3D |
---|---|
Motherboard | MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi |
Cooling | Thermalright Peerless Assassin |
Memory | 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000 |
Video Card(s) | ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming |
Storage | Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB |
Display(s) | Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440) |
Case | Lian Li A3 mATX White |
Audio Device(s) | Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1 |
Power Supply | EVGA Supernova G2 750W |
Mouse | XTRFY M42 |
Keyboard | Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II |
Software | W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC |
You see it too?Actually that's part of the problem Nvidia got themselves into. Paying way over the money for bleeding edge node unlike AMD sticking to proven and less expensive N5. Nvidia is screwed on pricing, they simply cannot compete, RDNA3 cost AMD a lot less money to manufacture and even at $899 for 7900XT they are making a nice healthy margin. I would not pay more than $799 for 4080, but even if it were I would most likely still get 7900XT(X). Nvidia doesn't deserve a red cent of mine.
Absolutely agreed, the one caveat is part of the consumer 'battle' is outrage over prices. These things matter, we should applaud that, not criticise it altogether. What also matters, is that people put their money where their mouth is. (Or, don't put moneyI agree that pascal was a thing of beauty, but honestly, do we REALLY care about how much nvidia is charging us per mm of die? I don't frankly. I check the performance and the price, whether they use a huge or small die is kinda irrelevant to me.
I also don't understand the outrage with the prices. You think its expensive? Great, don't buy it, the prices will drop, profit.
I also don't understand the outrage with the prices. You think its expensive? Great, don't buy it, the prices will drop, profit.
System Name | - |
---|---|
Processor | Ryzen 9 5900X |
Motherboard | MSI MEG X570 |
Cooling | Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 (4x140 push-pull) |
Memory | 32GB Patriot Steel DDR4 3733 (8GBx4) |
Video Card(s) | MSI RTX 4080 X-trio. |
Storage | Sabrent Rocket-Plus-G 2TB, Crucial P1 1TB, WD 1TB sata. |
Display(s) | LG Ultragear 34G750 nano-IPS 34" utrawide |
Case | Define R6 |
Audio Device(s) | Xfi PCIe |
Power Supply | Fractal Design ION Gold 750W |
Mouse | Razer DeathAdder V2 Mini. |
Keyboard | Logitech K120 |
VR HMD | Er no, pointless. |
Software | Windows 10 22H2 |
Benchmark Scores | Timespy - 24522 | Crystalmark - 7100/6900 Seq. & 84/266 QD1 | |
This pointless for a number of reasons, but the obvious are import and vat charges and no international warranty. With just those 2 issues, it renders your suggestion useless.You guys are in the EU just buy it in any other country. Some even do free shipping (not sure in those eastern parts but should be the same). Not that you can find much cheaper for what i see
System Name | Mean machine |
---|---|
Processor | 12900k |
Motherboard | MSI Unify X |
Cooling | Noctua U12A |
Memory | 7600c34 |
Video Card(s) | 4090 Gamerock oc |
Storage | 980 pro 2tb |
Display(s) | Samsung crg90 |
Case | Fractal Torent |
Audio Device(s) | Hifiman Arya / a30 - d30 pro stack |
Power Supply | Be quiet dark power pro 1200 |
Mouse | Viper ultimate |
Keyboard | Blackwidow 65% |
Im not specifically talking about this forum. Multiple posters in multiple forums going bonkers. People are not buying the 4080? Great, prices will drop.Outrage? Its a discussion on a forum, not violent protest in a street. But people are clearly "not buying it". Proof? Just look at the availability of an X080 card, released two weeks ago. When has this happened before?
RTX 4080 at Geizhals.eu
View attachment 272290
System Name | - |
---|---|
Processor | Ryzen 9 5900X |
Motherboard | MSI MEG X570 |
Cooling | Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 (4x140 push-pull) |
Memory | 32GB Patriot Steel DDR4 3733 (8GBx4) |
Video Card(s) | MSI RTX 4080 X-trio. |
Storage | Sabrent Rocket-Plus-G 2TB, Crucial P1 1TB, WD 1TB sata. |
Display(s) | LG Ultragear 34G750 nano-IPS 34" utrawide |
Case | Define R6 |
Audio Device(s) | Xfi PCIe |
Power Supply | Fractal Design ION Gold 750W |
Mouse | Razer DeathAdder V2 Mini. |
Keyboard | Logitech K120 |
VR HMD | Er no, pointless. |
Software | Windows 10 22H2 |
Benchmark Scores | Timespy - 24522 | Crystalmark - 7100/6900 Seq. & 84/266 QD1 | |
Yeah was because it wasnt a viable solution. Of the top of my head, micro-stutter, power useage didnt match performance and what I suspect as the main reason - nVidia dumping the responsibility for making games compatible onto games devs. Said devs clearly saw through that B$, which resulted in less and less games supporting the standard. So nVidia as a for-profit corp, it was then about the profit and where best to extract it from. Which si why you only see nVlink in the professional space.nvidia got rid of sli on mid range cards for a reason..
Im not specifically talking about this forum. Multiple posters in multiple forums going bonkers. People are not buying the 4080? Great, prices will drop.
The beauty of Pascal was due to 16nm being such a massive leap on its own along with some extra transistor work to make it clock faster. The 16nm process was probably the biggest leap from purely process work since the turn of the century.Absolutely the die was smaller! But that's entirely the beauty of Pascal. It did so much more with so little. That's a shrink The Way It's Meant to be Played. Part of that is also that Nvidia had been stuck on 28nm for só long.
Today, a shrink enables an immediate maxing out of the silicon and then it is still not enough, so we need retarded power targets.
Yea, probably around the same. I will say the R&D and initial process investment have skyrocketed too. Not enough to cover the cost difference but it is something.GTX 1080 started at 599$, how much of that is the cost of the chip itself? 20%? 30%?
RTX 4080 is a 20% larger chip at 100% higher cost per chip.
So, its contribution to the bill of materials in that asking 1200$+ is mere 20-30%, too.
Processor | Ryzen 5 5700x |
---|---|
Motherboard | B550 Elite |
Cooling | Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE |
Memory | 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz |
Video Card(s) | Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro |
Storage | Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs |
Display(s) | LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27'' |
Case | Lian Li Lancool II performance |
Power Supply | MSI 750w |
Mouse | G502 |
This pointless for a number of reasons, but the obvious are import and vat charges and no international warranty. With just those 2 issues, it renders your suggestion useless.
Processor | 7800X3D |
---|---|
Motherboard | MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi |
Cooling | Thermalright Peerless Assassin |
Memory | 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000 |
Video Card(s) | ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming |
Storage | Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB |
Display(s) | Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440) |
Case | Lian Li A3 mATX White |
Audio Device(s) | Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1 |
Power Supply | EVGA Supernova G2 750W |
Mouse | XTRFY M42 |
Keyboard | Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II |
Software | W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC |
The last good 1080p GPU with strong perf/$ was the 1060. We only regressed since. The price increases trickle down through the stack, that's why whine happens, because it does damage the market. Another aspect of that is that if people can't 'move up' the stack because its just priced out of the larger part of the target audience's comfort, you get stagnation in gaming as well. Devs cater to majority groups, not minorities. It will inevitably hurt the adoption rates of new technology in gaming, such as RT.But still I can’t stand how many whiners there are for the high end luxury market toys. I just have to let this out somewhere once… As long as the low GPUs that can play anything at 1080p are reasonably priced, the market is fine by me. We’ll see how that shakes out with crypto finally where it belongs.
there is no import charges inside the EU, vat changes just by the difference, and the warranty is exactly the same, 2 years and can be claimed anywhere inside the EU
System Name | RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II |
---|---|
Processor | Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H |
Motherboard | Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus |
Cooling | 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK |
Memory | Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB |
Video Card(s) | Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060 |
Storage | Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme |
Display(s) | Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter |
Case | Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2 |
Audio Device(s) | Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset |
Power Supply | corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock |
Mouse | Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless |
Keyboard | Roccat Aimo 120 |
VR HMD | Oculus rift |
Software | Win 10 Pro |
Benchmark Scores | 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506 |
Yes I signed up to pay extra Vat when I was born where I was, it's automagic, we have as much say in it as we do in the weather.That's on Europe. Nobody forced them to have insane VAT such as Poland's 25%.
System Name | Bragging Rights |
---|---|
Processor | Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz |
Motherboard | It has no markings but it's green |
Cooling | No, it's a 2.2W processor |
Memory | 2GB DDR3L-1333 |
Video Card(s) | Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz) |
Storage | 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3 |
Display(s) | 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz |
Case | Veddha T2 |
Audio Device(s) | Apparently, yes |
Power Supply | Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger |
Mouse | MX Anywhere 2 |
Keyboard | Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all) |
VR HMD | Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though.... |
Software | W10 21H1, barely |
Benchmark Scores | I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000. |
The problem with the 6600 at 4K is memory bandwidth and an infinitycache that's too small for higher resolutions. The 6600 tanks hard, even when running FSR performance (1080p native) because it simply lacks the bandwidth to handle the upscaled frame data. You might find that for the games you're playing a 6800XT on clearance will be more than enough. You can pick them up right now for about $520 new, or they regularly sell used for $450 on ebay if you browse by "sold items". Get $175 back from your RX 6600 and that solves your 4K problem for under $300 while avoiding the early-adopter tax and flagship pricing model.I’m strongly considering either a 7900xt or 7900xtx once the reviews come out. I need something better than my rx6600 now that I have a 4k monitor. I agree purely based on specs and the numbers we have so far the XT at $899 is a bad deal compared to the XTX for $999. However, given that I’m pairing it with an i5-11th gen, I wonder if I’m better off with the XT as I’ll probably be wasting an XTX?
System Name | Sierra |
---|---|
Processor | Core i5-11600K |
Motherboard | Asus Prime B560M-A AC |
Cooling | CM 212 Black RGB Edition |
Memory | 64GB (2x 32GB) DDR4-3600 |
Video Card(s) | MSI GeForce RTX 3080 10GB |
Storage | 4TB Samsung 990 Pro with Heatsink NVMe SSD |
Display(s) | 2x Dell S2721QS 4K 60Hz |
Case | Asus Prime AP201 |
Power Supply | Thermaltake GF1 850W |
Software | Windows 11 Pro |
Hmm, that is probably the path I should take, but I’d just be irritated if I spent $500 on something that didn’t perform as good as I hoped. Regardless I’d be keeping my RX6600 for my secondary PC.The problem with the 6600 at 4K is memory bandwidth and an infinitycache that's too small for higher resolutions. The 6600 tanks hard, even when running FSR performance (1080p native) because it simply lacks the bandwidth to handle the upscaled frame data. You might find that for the games you're playing a 6800XT on clearance will be more than enough. You can pick them up right now for about $520 new, or they regularly sell used for $450 on ebay if you browse by "sold items". Get $175 back from your RX 6600 and that solves your 4K problem for under $300 while avoiding the early-adopter tax and flagship pricing model.
By mid 2023 we should have the 4070/4070Ti and the RX 7800XT. Presumably these will shake up the pricing a lot - in a way that these flagship launches have no real hope of doing.
System Name | Bragging Rights |
---|---|
Processor | Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz |
Motherboard | It has no markings but it's green |
Cooling | No, it's a 2.2W processor |
Memory | 2GB DDR3L-1333 |
Video Card(s) | Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz) |
Storage | 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3 |
Display(s) | 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz |
Case | Veddha T2 |
Audio Device(s) | Apparently, yes |
Power Supply | Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger |
Mouse | MX Anywhere 2 |
Keyboard | Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all) |
VR HMD | Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though.... |
Software | W10 21H1, barely |
Benchmark Scores | I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000. |
I was having a similar discussion on the CPU front the other day too - specifically that desktop CPUs are not the only CPUs being made. There's no room for a 350W CPU in a laptop and laptops have been steadily overtaking desktops for half a decade at this point. Even on desktop, very few people actually want to spend on crazy CPUs with all the flagship platform costs of a high-end cooler/board/DDR5.You see it too?
Team green needs to secure the top spot in the epeen ladder for 2024 by...
- maxing out the silicon directly on the top end node of the moment
- using increased power targets gen-to-gen since Turing, and despite a shrink, yet another.
- enabling 450W~600W power target on the top end to even extract meaningful OC results... if we call 6% meaningful, which is a stretch.
- pushing even an x80 to a price point beyond what used to be absolute top end
One does start to wonder how they'll proceed from here.
RX6600 might change your opinion on that?The last good 1080p GPU with strong perf/$ was the 1060. We only regressed since. The price increases trickle down through the stack, that's why whine happens, because it does damage the market. Another aspect of that is that if people can't 'move up' the stack because its just priced out of the larger part of the target audience's comfort, you get stagnation in gaming as well. Devs cater to majority groups, not minorities. It will inevitably hurt the adoption rates of new technology in gaming, such as RT.