Export Regulations Hinder China's Plans for Custom Arm-Based Processors

[AleksandarK]

The United States has recently imposed several sanctions on technology exports to China. These sanctions are designed to restrict the transfer of specific technologies and sensitive information to Chinese entities, particularly those with ties to the Chinese military or government. The primary motivation behind these sanctions is to protect American national security interests, as well as to protect American companies from unfair competition. According to Financial Times, we have information that Chinese tech Giant, Alibaba, can not access Arm licenses for Neoverse V1 technology. Generally, the technology group where Neoverse V-series falls in is called Wassenaar -- multilateral export control regime (MECR) with 42 participating states. This agreement prohibits the sale of technology that could be used for military purposes.

The US argues that Arm's Neoverse V1 IP is not only a product from UK's Arm but a design made in the US as well, meaning that it is a US technology. Since Alibaba's T-Head group responsible for designing processors that go into Alibaba's cloud services can not use Neoverse V1, it has to look for alternative solutions. The Neoverse V1 and V2 can not be sold in China, while Neoverse N1 and N2 can. Alibaba's T-Head engineer argued, "We feel that the western world sees us as second-class people. They won't sell good products to us even if we have money."





These new sanctions also impact other Shenzen-based chip design companies. One of them has noted that switching from Neoverse V1 to Neoverse N2 will take them longer to achieve their goals, as "V1's overall performance will kill N2 on all fronts." A source close to FT has stated that Arm is working with its clients in China to overcome these obstacles and achieve their goals, within the limits that sanctions impose.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

Alibaba's T-Head engineer argued, "We feel that the western world sees us as second-class people. They won't sell good products to us even if we have money."

Horseshit. this is rich, I'd say for him to blame his own government for feeling that.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Well the irony is China might just fill the 40 thieves part in alibaba name

 

[eidairaman1]

Hi,
Well the irony is China might just fill the 40 thieves part in alibaba name

Already have

 

[Jism]

What restricts china from hiring talented chip designers and design their own?

 

[AsRock]

What restricts china from hiring talented chip designers and design their own?

Or how they normally do it. They don't give a fly uck about who owns what unless it's theirs.

Shame we don't stop all the food that gets sent over there too.

 

[lemonadesoda]

This sanction reeks of Short term thinking From a US—China perspective .

and also appears like there is a whole "sanctions department " in the US trying to justify their budget.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

What restricts china from hiring talented chip designers and design their own?

The supply of Talented Chip Designers one would assume....

Not everyone is as talented and those that are already have jobs and most likely had to sign some sort of clause that prevents them from working for a competitor. You could of course do it off the books but unless you have a completely new chip design unlike the stuff you worked at your previous job. You'll eventually get caught and put in jail for selling company secrets or something. In the US its probably worse I assume as youre helping China circumvent their chip shortage issue by teaching them how to make the stuff which probably makes you some sort of traitor to your country.

China need to work this shit out on their own but they've been bootlegging other companies tech for so long that making something new is a bit of a challenge. Either they make a breakthrough and do it themselves or they find a company with pretty loose morals who are willing to smuggle chips out to them in enough numbers to keep China going. A former chip engineer with loose morals can also be found at the cost of them becoming traitor/enemy of the state.

 

[R-T-B]

Shame we don't stop all the food that gets sent over there too.

Bankruptcy in the American farming heartland in 3-2-1...

 

[Bomby569]

What restricts china from hiring talented chip designers and design their own?

The rest of the world works together, any CPU isn't made or designed in just one country, by just one technology, hundreds of companies with different know how and patents kind of work together to get things done. It's really hard for someone like Russia or China isolated or even by themselves to compete with that, you had to hire so many people in so many fields and even that wouldn't work as they would also be isolated and wouldn't progress.

 

[TechLurker]

What restricts china from hiring talented chip designers and design their own?

Nothing but China's own inability to innovate.

I mean, China has been trying to woo a variety of chip maker employees from around the world, including 100 or so from TSMC in 2019/2020, a few scandals of attempted IP theft from mid-ranking employees in Europe, and some other related attempts.

They offer amazing deals at first; tax-free lifestyle, generous starting pay, VIP treatment, rare access beyond the Great Firewall, etc, but then begin taking it away if those poached individuals can't somehow boost their own domestic industry. The problem there is that Chinese fear failure, so those in management find ways to avoid being the one to sign off on revolutionary changes to what they know works. Then on top of that, is that any failure is immediately punishable, so some of those fresh, foreign blood ends up becoming scapegoats instead of trying to figure out the failure point, correct it, and move on.

And then that's on top of rampant grift; just look at how despite the massive investment into the "Big Fund", China has almost no success stories on domestic production and instead a lot of embezzled funds to chase after. Some companies had as many as 40 sub-contractors all trying to work on a section of the project, or passing it down just to avoid taking the blame if it failed.

And while it might just be claims of individuals, but those posting about what's really going on in China talk about how many things were developed just to work long enough to get contracts signed, then writing in exclusive tech support fees into the contract so that when it does fail, the company in question can keep billing for repairs and maintenance.

 

[Luisds]

Nothing but China's own inability to innovate.

I mean, China has been trying to woo a variety of chip maker employees from around the world, including 100 or so from TSMC in 2019/2020, a few scandals of attempted IP theft from mid-ranking employees in Europe, and some other related attempts.

They offer amazing deals at first; tax-free lifestyle, generous starting pay, VIP treatment, rare access beyond the Great Firewall, etc, but then begin taking it away if those poached individuals can't somehow boost their own domestic industry. The problem there is that Chinese fear failure, so those in management find ways to avoid being the one to sign off on revolutionary changes to what they know works. Then on top of that, is that any failure is immediately punishable, so some of those fresh, foreign blood ends up becoming scapegoats instead of trying to figure out the failure point, correct it, and move on.

And then that's on top of rampant grift; just look at how despite the massive investment into the "Big Fund", China has almost no success stories on domestic production and instead a lot of embezzled funds to chase after. Some companies had as many as 40 sub-contractors all trying to work on a section of the project, or passing it down just to avoid taking the blame if it failed.

And while it might just be claims of individuals, but those posting about what's really going on in China talk about how many things were developed just to work long enough to get contracts signed, then writing in exclusive tech support fees into the contract so that when it does fail, the company in question can keep billing for repairs and maintenance.

In fact, China implements the leadership responsibility system. If it fails, the leaders need to go to the marginal areas to provide for the elderly.

 

[Prima.Vera]

I wouldn't "sell" technology to a company called Alibaba either, especially that the 40 thieves are well inside the Communist party...
We all know China will steal tech anyway, is business as usual for them.

 

[Crackong]

What restricts china from hiring talented chip designers and design their own?

Because talented people are smart enough to not being fooled and not spending their career on lies and betrayal ?

 

[defaultluser]

What restricts china from hiring talented chip designers and design their own?

THEY STILL HAVE TO DEAL WITHJ ALL THE MISSING FAB EQUIPMENT FIRST

 

[ZeppMan217]

Didn't Arm lose control of their Chinese branch some years ago? I remember reading something about the head of Arm China going rogue.

 

[Chomiq]

Russia continues to buy U.S. chips, bypassing sanctions

Despite Western sanctions, Russia continues to import semiconductors through shell companies registered in Turkey, Hong Kong and Estonia, states an investigation by Reuters and the British analytical center Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), published on Dec. 13.

news.yahoo.com

'nuff said.

 

[Bomby569]

Russia continues to buy U.S. chips, bypassing sanctions

Despite Western sanctions, Russia continues to import semiconductors through shell companies registered in Turkey, Hong Kong and Estonia, states an investigation by Reuters and the British analytical center Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), published on Dec. 13.

news.yahoo.com

'nuff said.

It's easy to stop them buying heavilly controlled stuff like military plains, but no one can stop them from buying chips. North Korea dictator buys luxury cars and all kinds of shit all the time. There should be a endless line of unscrupulous people and companies in the west that would happily take their money and sell them almost anything.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

What restricts china from hiring talented chip designers and design their own?

Not much stopped China from just taking over China's Arm branch, not much has stopped them stealing designs.
It's about time something was done to have them understand corporate non governmental aligned ownership and intellectual property for that matter.

And nothing restricted them from innovation, the west allowed them the use of IP and still does.

They're presently trying to leverage RISC V to be There computational goto, something the west Also open sourced.

 

[Chomiq]

THEY STILL HAVE TO DEAL WITHJ ALL THE MISSING FAB EQUIPMENT FIRST

Knowing Chinese I would expect them to relocate entire FAB from one country to another.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

Another stupid move from brain-dead politicians. This kind of policies has only one goal slow innovation and make life miserable for normal people.

On the bright side, this will push China to create its own everything, eventually giving us more choices when either side's politicians get smart and decide to use their two neurones.

 

[Minus Infinity]

Another stupid move from brain-dead politicians. This kind of policies has only one goal slow innovation and make life miserable for normal people.

On the bright side, this will push China to create its own everything, eventually giving us more choices when either side's politicians get smart and decide to use their two neurones.

Yeah that's right, Chinese are miserable because of chip sanctions, nothing at all to do with them living under a brutal and repressive dictatorship. Swing and a huge miss.

 

[claes]

Bad thread should die

 

[regs]

A lot of ARM IP comes from China, as they have huge R&D center out there. So China can issue same ban for USA.

 

[Diverge]

Also factor in if you get rich in China, then you better fall inline with everything their government says, or risk your life and wealth. A perfect analogy would be selling your soul to the devil.

How many well-off business guys said something against the Chinese governement, to disappear for a bit, then come back and say nothing is wrong or happened...