TSMC to Mark 3 nm Mass Production Start, Looking at Potential New Fabs in Japan and Germany

[TheLostSwede]

According to news out of Taiwan, TSMC will hold a ceremony to mark the official mass production start of its 3 nm node on the 29th of December. This is said to help "shatter doubts about de-Taiwanization" or in simpler terms, that Taiwan will lose its golden goose as TSMC invests abroad. The 3 nm fab—known as fab 18—is based in southern Taiwan's Tainan and the ceremony also marks the start of an expansion of TSMC's most advanced fab. TSMC is said to be kicking off its N3E node production sometime in the second half of 2023, followed by its N3P node in 2024, all of which should take place at fab 18, which also produces 5 nm wafers.

In related news, according to Reuters, a Japanese lawmaker from the ruling party has said that TSMC is considering a second plant in Japan, in addition to its current joint venture that is already under construction. TSMC's response to Reuters was that the company isn't ruling out Japan for future fabs, but that the company doesn't have any current plans. At the same time, TSMC is said to be sending executives to Dresden, Germany in early 2023, for a second round of talks about building a fab to help support the European auto industry, although this would be a 28/22 nm fab, which is far from cutting edge these days, although a lot more advanced than most fabs making chips for the auto industry.


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[Space Lynx]

I am just going to assume Apple is the first customer for 3nm.

Regardless, that means 3nm gpu's are possible in mid to late 2024 maybe?

 

[TheLostSwede]

I am just going to assume Apple is the first customer for 3nm.

Regardless, that means 3nm gpu's are possible in mid to late 2024 maybe?

According to the Yahoo News article, Apple and possibly Intel might be TSMC's first customers for the node. It's likely that Qualcomm will be another.
The more advanced N3 nodes should indeed be capable enough for GPUs.

 

[konga]

I'm personally not expecting 3nm GPUs until 2025 at the earliest, mainly due to the cost. My current prediction is that the next gen will be mostly a refresh of the current gen with more sensible SKUs and prices, but that's just pure conjecture on my part.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

According to the Yahoo News article, Apple and possibly Intel might be TSMC's first customers for the node. It's likely that Qualcomm will be another.
The more advanced N3 nodes should indeed be capable enough for GPUs.

They were way ahead of TSMC, I guess they focused to much on milking us with 4 cores to invest on their fabs.

 

[马嘉伟]

TSMC is more likely to listen to shareholders. Us production of 5nm chips is a start, and 3nm will follow soon. Taiwan (China) is too weak to fully control the TSMC.

But for workers, wages are higher in the United States and they don't work as much overtime as in East Asia. I'm happy for these American workers at TSMC. Because they will have real human rights.

 

[Luminescent]

I am expecting "ground breaking" improvements from AMD, Nvidia and Apple, new and "improved architecture", third,fourth....whatever generation, all that crap that truthfully most of it's performance comes from a better node.
TSMC should ask for more and more money.

 

[TheLostSwede]

TSMC should ask for more and more money.

The issue with that is that us consumers will be hit the hardest, as always.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

But for workers, wages are higher in the United States and they don't work as much overtime as in East Asia. I'm happy for these American workers at TSMC. Because they will have real human rights

Smaller work time+bigger salaries results in more expensive products. Are you ready to pay $2000+(MSPR, street price probably more) for RTX 4080 only because it is made in USA?

 

[bonehead123]

Can we have some cookies with this milk please (preferably choc chip)...

Moar miniscule improvements YOY, every year, for moar & moar $$....

Hello chipmakers everywhere, just an FYI, but I generally prefer to get some hugs & kisses before I get screwed (AGAIN)

 

[sepheronx]

Lol dear lord. Soon they will announce opening up a fab in Somalia, Democratic Republic of Congo and Yemen.

Instead, choose a place and stick to it while trying to make production cheaper.

Also, Germany will be a funny choice especially since their energy supply is gonna become a big problem for them soon.

 

[Prima.Vera]

Please build a new plant in Japan!
The CPU and GPU prices here are ridiculous already. Maybe having domestic fabs will lower a little bitt those.
But then again, the assembly and manufacture of cards and boards are still made in China or Taiwan, so probably nothing is going to change...
At least availability will increase more, so that's a win.

 

[马嘉伟]

Smaller work time+bigger salaries results in more expensive products. Are you ready to pay $2000+(MSPR, street price probably more) for RTX 4080 only because it is made in USA?

I would, if I had the same work time and salaries as in the US. After I bought the RTX4080 for $2000, I still had plenty of time to play the game.

For example, in mainland China, you can buy the RTX4080 on Taobao for less than $1500, but you have to work 60-70 hours a week or more. For such hard work, most people only get $1100 to $1300 a month.

Even if I bought the RTX4080, how would I have time to play it? In East Asia, crazy overtime is more intolerable than low salaries.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

I would, if I had

Yes...if. In many countries this increased prices will be not acceptable and even accessible.

 

[Vayra86]

Smaller work time+bigger salaries results in more expensive products. Are you ready to pay $2000+(MSPR, street price probably more) for RTX 4080 only because it is made in USA?

Perhaps we should be ready for this.

Its that, or we allow some fool at the bottom end to pay that price for us. We've always been like that, it was never really correct was it. Especially not if the fool is ourselves...

some hugs & kisses before I get screwed (AGAIN)

The foreplay was crypto and that ship has sailed... ?

 

[R-T-B]

Lol dear lord. Soon they will announce opening up a fab in Somalia, Democratic Republic of Congo and Yemen.

Instead, choose a place and stick to it while trying to make production cheaper.

Also, Germany will be a funny choice especially since their energy supply is gonna become a big problem for them soon.

Nothing about the locations they chose is cheap. Not comparable to your examples at all.

Smaller work time+bigger salaries results in more expensive products. Are you ready to pay $2000+(MSPR, street price probably more) for RTX 4080 only because it is made in USA?

I mean, there is some argument you can make for "yes" if it nets you a good paying job.

But lets be real: it won't.