PSA: Corrosion Happening on ASUS ROG Z690 Formula VRM Block, Company Remains Silent

[zlobby]

Ah, EK. No need to read further.

 

[Trev]

Is there so much profit to be made changing copper to Aluminium?

also: can anyone tell me the taste/smell of this stuff?

It's really hard to tell if it's incompetence, greed, or both.

 

[ShurikN]

I feel it is not that they are not aware, but a calculated decision from a cost standpoint. To them, I guess they are hoping that the corrosion won’t happen so quickly or widespread.

Cost savings would make sense if this was a mass produced board.
They cheaped out on a board that they made probably a 1000 of. Asus saved like what.... a couple of thousand dollars. That's just pure scumminess.
Asus crap is gonna stay on my avoid list for as long as I live.

 

[Bwaze]

Can you send the whole loop to Asus for cleaning? Or at least make them pay for installation, cleaning solutions and new cooling liquid?

Just sending the new waterblock "for free" won't cut it, they have made a lot of work to a lot of people, and also some expenses. What about the equipment that gets damaged during assembly and disasembly? Waterblocks aren't made for easy disassembly in mind, with some of them you also void the warranty!

Also, what does this mean:

"ASUS is readying an adequate replacement hybrid VRM thermal solution for everyone affected by this issue."

How long begore replacement blocks are even available - weeks, months? What should users that are already observing degradation do in the meantime? Take long relaxing walks?

I really can't understand who approved this?

 

[Dammeron]

I saw water in those pics above. Distilled by it'self just isn't enough.

Distilled water actually makes it worse, since it has a lot of negative OH ions. And Asus/EK went even further, since they directly bonded copper and aluminium, that's why the corrosion happened so fast, much faster than if these were separate (like alloy block and copper radiator).

Back in the day, when pumps for central heating were popular (and those are usually made from cast iron), we used chemicals such as Copal to negate any galvanic corrosion in a loop. But those were the dark ages of LC and should not be brought back.

 

[bogami]

The problem of mixing aluminum and copper in the cooling circuit has been a known problem for a long time, but there is also a microorganism (ALGAE) present here! in a thick stock on the protective grease that manufacturers use as protection against corrosion. I experienced this problem myself on an aluminum GPU block and a copper CPU block, (10 years of it or mor). Now I use silver in the reservoir to clean the algae. I suggest buying a suitable coolant with additives. Always clean parts BEFORE assembly. Put it together and there will be no serious consequences, especially if it doesn't leak. WRM does not need these cooling fins. A lesson for the future, good luck!

 

[Bwaze]

Distilled water actually makes it worse, since it has a lot of negative OH ions. And Asus/EK went even further, since they directly bonded copper and aluminium, that's why the corrosion happened so fast, much faster than if these were separate (like alloy block and copper radiator).

Back in the day, when pumps for central heating were popular (and those are usually made from cast iron), we used chemicals such as Copal to negate any galvanic corrosion in a loop. But those were the dark ages of LC and should not be brought back.

Most AIO closed loops are still made with mixed metals - copper CPU block and aluminum radiator, and are relying on cooling liquid with lots of anti-corrosive additives not to corrode too fast.

 

[Haile Selassie]

Most AIO closed loops are still made with mixed metals - copper CPU block and aluminum radiator, and are relying on cooling liquid with lots of anti-corrosive additives not to corrode too fast.

They are closed loop and charged with fluid that makes them extremely reliable, moreso because these units aren't user serviceable (PEBKAC free) one can easily get away with such construction.

This is a lawsuit-grade decision made by these two vendors to design a product in such way that normal usage leads to imminent failure.

 

[Dragokar]

And they wonder why some of us dont buy this crap anymore.......but too many still do.

 

[Steamroller]

They are closed loop and charged with fluid that makes them extremely reliable, moreso because these units aren't user serviceable (PEBKAC free) one can easily get away with such construction.

This is a lawsuit-grade decision made by these two vendors to design a product in such way that normal usage leads to imminent failure.

You are taking it too far there. Aorus also has aluminum gpu blocks and people still buy it. The difference is that Asus had no public information about the material of the VRM block. Even if you speculate that EK made the aluminum block, which I highly doubt, since the design is nothing similar to any other EK product, the product is sold and advertised by Asus. Nickel is not a material in this matter, just a thin layer of plating.

 

[Bwaze]

They are closed loop and charged with fluid that makes them extremely reliable, moreso because these units aren't user serviceable (PEBKAC free) one can easily get away with such construction.

This is a lawsuit-grade decision made by these two vendors to design a product in such way that normal usage leads to imminent failure.

Is it possible that Asus planned ROG Z690 Formula to have an AIO cooler, so they planned VRM Block, maybe even CPU block to have mixed metals - and EK made them to their specifications, and then plans changed, and somebody not from engineering decided to release it as custom water cooling block?

 

[Chrispy_]

having problems with nickel plating and purposely mixing alloy and copper in one loop are completely different things.

If you're dealing with EK they're not.
The nickel plating that allows you to mix metals is the one thing that EK have a terrible history of failing at.

 

[rutra80]

ASUS is the most overhyped crap. For 20 years I haven't had their single product I wasn't disappointed with. I avoid, but buy something from time to time and always regret it.

 

[Dammeron]

If you're dealing with EK they're not.
The nickel plating that allows you to mix metals is the one thing that EK have a terrible history of failing at.

Since when nickel plating was a solution to allow mixing different materials in a loop? Never heard of such thing.

It has only 2 purposes - looks (not everybody likes the orange) and protecting copper from oxidizing from either the fluid, or eg. greasy fingers.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

I think all this really justifies why so many people stick to air cooling.

 

[Chrispy_]

Since when nickel plating was a solution to allow mixing different materials in a loop? Never heard of such thing.

It has only 2 purposes - looks (not everybody likes the orange) and protecting copper from oxidizing from either the fluid, or eg. greasy fingers.

Since forever. Google "nickel plating to prevent corrosion" rather than taking my word for it.

Nickel plating is essential for any aluminium parts in contact with water because aluminium has a very high anodic index which means galvanic and electrolytic corrosion are guaranteed if there are low-anodic metals like brass, copper, nickel in the loop. You won't find many AIOs with all-aluminium parts. The CPU block is almost always copper, even in cheap AIOs and the fittings are typically brass.

Additionally, nickel may look nice, but that's a bonus rather than its purpose; It's used extensively in places that you'll never ever see such as the base plate for air coolers, sealed, all-black waterblocks like my Alphacool one that have no plexi windows, internal fittings and elbow joints in both opaque-tubing custom loops and AIOs.

Typically, the only place you DON'T see nickel is in aluminium radiators of cheap, disposable AIOs. The loop will corrode but high glycol content of the relatively low fluid volumes means that the corrosion is slow enough for the AIO to survive its warranty period. It's an ugly truth of the AIO industry and there's no shortage of articles around the web and youtube where people cut open old AIOs to show the corrosion after a few years.

 

[Argyr]

Water cooling is dumb, I feel no sympathy.

 

[Kohl Baas]

Looks gunktastic!

 

[ThrashZone]

This is the GPU blocks after flushing with demineralized water for a few days. They obviously needed disassembly and a lot of scrubbing. That blue copper crud is a huge pain.
View attachment 283897

Hi,
My copper ek block is 5 years old and still looks new
I've never had anything growing like that for sure even my nickel plated one looks new still can't find the image though

This is just a case of asus cheaping out I guess since it doesn't look like ek made these aluminum vrm blocks and didn't even nickel plate them either.
EK has a all aluminum line of products or did so they should know better.

 

[Chrispy_]

Water cooling is dumb, I feel no sympathy.

Haha, try running your car with no engine coolant and get back to me

More seriously, you are correct that vanity PC watercooling is dumb because it's very high maintenance and people buy into snake-oil nonsense like VRM cooling, SSD cooling, RAM cooling etc.

Water cooling parts with a high heat density is very valid and useful but VRMs, RAM, SSDs, motherboard chipsets all have very low thermal density. Cooling those with water does indeed just complicate your loop for show and there's rarely a good reason why those parts couldn't be adequately cooled with a decent quality heatsink. Motherboard VRMs, for example, operate at 90%+ efficiency even using cheap, basic VRMs. High quality VRMs on flagship motherboards use the best VRM MOSfets available which means that even for an insane LN2 overclock pulling 500W from the socket, the total surface area of all the VRMs combined need to dissipate only 30-40W. That's nothing, and you're not going to be seeing 500W power draw on a watercooled CPU, so the VRM dissipation will likely be under 25W.

Here's a 1.5"x1.5" 25W cooler, to give you an idea of how puny 25W is:

 

[ThrashZone]

Can you send the whole loop to Asus for cleaning? Or at least make them pay for installation, cleaning solutions and new cooling liquid?

Just sending the new waterblock "for free" won't cut it, they have made a lot of work to a lot of people, and also some expenses. What about the equipment that gets damaged during assembly and disasembly? Waterblocks aren't made for easy disassembly in mind, with some of them you also void the warranty!

Also, what does this mean:

"ASUS is readying an adequate replacement hybrid VRM thermal solution for everyone affected by this issue."

How long begore replacement blocks are even available - weeks, months? What should users that are already observing degradation do in the meantime? Take long relaxing walks?

I really can't understand who approved this?

Rads will be the most interesting to get that crap out of.

Since when nickel plating was a solution to allow mixing different materials in a loop? Never heard of such thing.

It has only 2 purposes - looks (not everybody likes the orange) and protecting copper from oxidizing from either the fluid, or eg. greasy fingers.

Bling effect only.

 

[damric]

The problem must be the nickel + aluminum.

In my main rig I have nickel plated copper, copper rad, and silver coil and it's fine for years.

In all of my folding rigs I have very cheap aluminum radiators and even cheaper copper blocks (thank you China), no nickel plating, silver coil.

For fluid it's distilled with a drop of Prestone (ethylene glycol).

People hate on silver coils but they also act as sacrificial anode to help prevent galvanic, with the downside that they eventually stain everything black, especially tubing.

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

EK and corrosion is just expected behaviour, right?

This isn't the first time EK have screwed up exactly like this. Why are they so popular, and why are they so expensive?

EK are the very definition of "failing upwards".

Agreed, EK is way too expensive and in all honesty, they don't really offer any substantial benefit over other, much more affordable, water cooling companies. I personally think it's a case where since so many builds on Youtube use the same EK parts, viewers just assume without doing any other research, that EK is the best and they should get EK too since they see EK everywhere. So then they get EK products, increasing their popularity, and the cycle repeats....it's not do to outstanding quality of the products, just outstanding marketing (which is probably a big part of why their products are more expensive than others)....I feel like the same exact phenomenon is partially responsible for Nvidia's dominance. The overwhelming majority of consumers do absolutely no research before buying a product, they just see that everyone else is buying that products so they copy the behavior. And since nvidia has the most people online constantly hyping their products and spreading misinformation about the competition (there is no shortage of people on the internet that talk about AMD videocards like they're still in the 290x era, i.e. they're hot, etc) you end up with a situation in which popularity begets popularity....a popularity that isn't based necessarily in the superiority of the products, but in the company's ability to manipulate and manufacture "top of mind" awareness in the consumer.....and the unrelenting hive-mind of their fanboy army doesn't hurt either, haha. I guarantee though, that 95% or more of all consumers who are new to the PC space (as in they're buying their first gaming PC or building it) just don't even consider or even research and AMD gpu because they've just assumed (do to the fanboys and the other consumers constantly saying you should only buy nvidia) that you SHOULD get nvidia, and I'd be willing to guess that it's the same exact situation for people who are new to the watercooling space....they just assume you SHOULD get EK.

 

[ThrashZone]

If you're dealing with EK they're not.
The nickel plating that allows you to mix metals is the one thing that EK have a terrible history of failing at.

Think ek did use magic mixture metal for old barb fittings
These already had nickel plating flaking off and I dipped them in vinegar lol

 

[damric]

Blame Raja