• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Price War Looming for Mature Fab Nodes in Taiwan

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,769 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
The smaller foundries in Taiwan—at least compared to TSMC—UMC, PSMC and VIS to name the bigger players, but also other less well known foundries that produce chips on mature nodes, are getting ready for what looks like a price war. In all fairness, all of these companies have hiked their prices multiple times over the past couple of years, so it might just be a return to more normal pricing for these nodes that we're looking at. According to UDN media in Taiwan, the smaller foundries are offering discounts that range between 10 and 20 percent for new orders placed with them.

This is largely due to underutilised production lines for some nodes and the companies are trying to increase the utilisation rate of these nodes. The article mentions that the foundries with 8-inch wafer lines are those hardest hit, especially as they've produced more specialised ICs, such as fingerprint sensors, various driver ICs and power management ICs to mention a few. Some of these foundries are now running at 50 to 60 percent of their capacity, which doesn't bode well for the industry. On the other hand, 12-inch fabs aren't nearly as badly hit and might not offer as attractive discounts to potential customers. Another threat to the Taiwanese foundries is Samsung, which is reportedly also offering around a 10 percent discount on its mature nodes.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 

Count von Schwalbe

Nocturnus Moderatus
Staff member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
3,172 (2.80/day)
Location
Knoxville, TN, USA
System Name Work Computer | Unfinished Computer
Processor Core i7-6700 | Ryzen 5 5600X
Motherboard Dell Q170 | Gigabyte Aorus Elite Wi-Fi
Cooling A fan? | Truly Custom Loop
Memory 4x4GB Crucial 2133 C17 | 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 C26
Video Card(s) Dell Radeon R7 450 | RTX 2080 Ti FE
Storage Crucial BX500 2TB | TBD
Display(s) 3x LG QHD 32" GSM5B96 | TBD
Case Dell | Heavily Modified Phanteks P400
Power Supply Dell TFX Non-standard | EVGA BQ 650W
Mouse Monster No-Name $7 Gaming Mouse| TBD
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
2,881 (1.19/day)
AMD is smart not to use bleeding edge nodes like Nvidia did for Lovelace. Zen 5 will probably use N4P rather than N3E and they will save a bomb doing so. Apple can have all the N3 supply if they like, N3 is seriously overpriced and improvements it brings over N4P are much smaller than expected. Zen 5 could use N5 for IO and N4P for cpu.
 

Count von Schwalbe

Nocturnus Moderatus
Staff member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
3,172 (2.80/day)
Location
Knoxville, TN, USA
System Name Work Computer | Unfinished Computer
Processor Core i7-6700 | Ryzen 5 5600X
Motherboard Dell Q170 | Gigabyte Aorus Elite Wi-Fi
Cooling A fan? | Truly Custom Loop
Memory 4x4GB Crucial 2133 C17 | 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 C26
Video Card(s) Dell Radeon R7 450 | RTX 2080 Ti FE
Storage Crucial BX500 2TB | TBD
Display(s) 3x LG QHD 32" GSM5B96 | TBD
Case Dell | Heavily Modified Phanteks P400
Power Supply Dell TFX Non-standard | EVGA BQ 650W
Mouse Monster No-Name $7 Gaming Mouse| TBD
You're thinking too small, cheaper everything! That's basic building blocks of every modern consumer electronic item out there
Oh yes, of course. It's just that mobos are fast following GPUs to become the most expensive parts of a PC.


Personally, it can't come fast enough. The industrial sector is still struggling under a major chip shortage. We got a quote on a price of equipment (that should have been 2-3 months lead time) with a lead time of ~20 months. And it was considered acceptable.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,723 (1.60/day)

A surge in demand for chips at more mature process nodes is causing shortages for both 200mm foundry capacity and 200mm equipment, and it shows no signs of letting up. In fact, even with new capacity coming on line this year, shortages are likely to persist for years, driving up prices and forcing significant changes across the semiconductor supply chain.

Hmmm... January 2022. How things change so quickly. "Persistent 200mm shortages" (aka 8-inch wafers) has suddenly turned into price war and overcapacity this year.
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
17,425 (4.69/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Processor 7800X3D -25 all core
Motherboard B650 Steel Legend
Cooling Frost Commander 140
Video Card(s) Merc 310 7900 XT @3100 core -.75v
Display(s) Agon 27" QD-OLED Glossy 240hz 1440p
Case NZXT H710 (Red/Black)
Audio Device(s) Asgard 2, Modi 3, HD58X
Power Supply Corsair RM850x Gold



Hmmm... January 2022. How things change so quickly. "Persistent 200mm shortages" (aka 8-inch wafers) has suddenly turned into price war and overcapacity this year.

what sorts of items use this 200mm wafer? I am guessing cars? cause cars are still insanely expensive.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
1,012 (0.19/day)
Processor Intel Core i5 8400
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370N-Wifi
Cooling Silverstone AR05
Memory Micron Crucial 16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX1080 G1 Gaming 8G
Storage Micron Crucial MX300 275GB
Display(s) Dell U2415
Case Silverstone RVZ02B
Power Supply Silverstone SSR-SX550
Keyboard Ducky One Red Switch
Software Windows 10 Pro 1909
Oh yes, of course. It's just that mobos are fast following GPUs to become the most expensive parts of a PC.


Personally, it can't come fast enough. The industrial sector is still struggling under a major chip shortage. We got a quote on a price of equipment (that should have been 2-3 months lead time) with a lead time of ~20 months. And it was considered acceptable.
Wtf lead time of 20 months is freaking gross
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,723 (1.60/day)
what sorts of items use this 200mm wafer? I am guessing cars? cause cars are still insanely expensive.

200mm wafers are the same as 8-inch wafers that are discussed in this article posted today.

I'm just noting the very confusing times we live in: 1 year ago, it looked like 8-inch wafers were skyrocketing in price. Today, their prices are collapsing.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
43,609 (6.48/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF x670e-Plus Wifi
Cooling EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory 32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 4090
Storage WD/Samsung m.2's
Display(s) LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s) Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Amp, Adam Audio T5V's, Hifiman Sundara's.
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard Epomaker 84 key
Software Windows 11 Pro
Yes. This will be great for CEO's in their search for perpetual growth and profit! I doubt they'll pass that on to the consumer.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
834 (0.46/day)
Maybe for Automative and other industrial applications.

Demand is collapsing and there's 18 months to 2 years left for it to play out imo.

For all tech hardware segments.

Just seeing the beginning with these cuts.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
17,769 (2.42/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Wtf lead time of 20 months is freaking gross
Some parts have over a years lead time...

200mm wafers are the same as 8-inch wafers that are discussed in this article posted today.

I'm just noting the very confusing times we live in: 1 year ago, it looked like 8-inch wafers were skyrocketing in price. Today, their prices are collapsing.
Collapsing, no, but going back to previous levels at least.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2022
Messages
913 (0.85/day)
Imagine being the sucker blamed for bringing a production line back to 200 from 300 and loosing serious money on it
 
Top