AMD Speeds Up Development of "Zen 5" to Thwart Intel Xeon "Emerald Rapids"?

[Starks]

am5 longevity?

 

[NeuralNexus]

If true they are going to see Zen 4 sales further decline. Why buy Zen 4 if Zen 5 is launching in less than 9 months. I certainly will be holding off for either Zen 5 or Arrow Lake to upgrade my 3700X system. Zen 4 has me underwhelmed as has Raptor lake's insane power.

Defend INSANE power...because if you are talking about a huge power draw due to inefficient and bloated E-Cores on an outdated architecture. I guess that would be considered INSANE.

 

[Minus Infinity]

I hope they just focus on IPC, I really don't want more than 8 or 16 cores in a consumer CPU, far too many games and apps aren't going to scale beyond 2 or 4 anyway.

20-25% IPC, major new architecture, the biggest change since Zen, slightly higher clocks than Zen 4, more L1 and L2 cache. Sounds nice but I doubt it can compete against Arrow Lake.

 

[Dragonsyph]

Jesus, think I lost some brain cells reading the crap reply’s to this thread. My god.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Is AMD clearly on "the back foot"? They have the best enterprise processors, the 3d v-cache chips have regained the gaming crown, Zen4 is way more efficient, the Zen4 mobile line seems to be better than Intel in both performance and efficiency....and all of this while AMD has an R&D budget less than a third of Intel's.....to me that would be considered to be performing pretty well, even "punching way above their weight class". I think the "back foot" perception is based upon the double standard people set on AMD....everyone expects AMD to not only deliver a superior product, but to do so at a much, much, much cheaper price...which is literally impossible. AMD can't win at performance AND charge less and all while competing against two companies that have access to way more financial resources than AMD.

As for as Zen4, prices have come down substantially on CPUs and now budget motherboard options are available. DDR5 has come down enough in price so that Zen4 not working with DDR4 isn't really an issue anymore either. Laid out like that, I dont see how AMD is on their back foot...they're simultaneously competing against two, much larger opponents and still offer some of the best products around and they continue to grab enterprise market share which is the most lucrative x86 segment.

***I've read multiple leaks from different sources that claim Zen5 will have 16 cores per CCD, and that Turin will have 256 cores...weather those are Zen5 or Zen5C cores, I'm not sure, but without a node shrinks and 16 cores per CCD, we're looking at at least 192 cores based on a 12 chiplet configuration like Genoa, although if they do got to 3nm like has been claimed, they might be able to fit 16 chiplets in the Turin package and there's your 256 cores....so Zen5C could be even more, maybe 384 cores, but that's pure speculation.

Let's also remember that Zen4 and Zen5 are developed by two different teams and that Zen5 was ALREADY in development long before Zen4 was even released. So, it very well could be that Zen5 could be available that soon after Zen4. It seems more likely that Zen5 originally being released in 2024 was probably a CHOICE by AMD to ensure enough Zen4 sales rather than a constraint dictated by development or TSMC availability.

Well there's a few problems to outline here. Despite Epyc's great on-paper performance, the longstanding reliability of Xeon and Intel's constant side channel distribution deals has largely captivated and kept the enterprise market's attention. As the competitor, AMD's very mission is to deliver a superior product at a cheaper price, which is the only way they will achieve a leadership position, once solidified, their prices would naturally go up. The problem being, they're going against Intel here, and they're called Chipzilla for a reason.

Not sure I agree on the DDR5 on consumer platforms entirely, sure, I'll say prices are no longer as atrocious as they used to be, but they are still a lot higher on average (unless you are buying dirt-grade 4800 MT/s 8 GB sticks) and kits that cater to the enthusiast crowd (such as those with Hynix A-die) remain a very expensive proposition in the face of widely available and high performing Samsung S8B DDR4.

Just as an example, the 32 GB DDR5-6800 Trident Z kit I've purchased (TPU review) for my Raptor Lake build cost almost as much as my Samsung-based 64 GB Dominator Platinum DDR4-3000 kit did back when I've purchased it in 2018 (and this 3000 kit happily ran at 3600 for its entire service life on my old AM4 system), and this still came with a compromise, I'm giving up half of the capacity from my former build to reach out for the performance sweet-spot, something that the 5950X could do with even with all ranks populated. Add all that and the important question: "Do people even need DDR5 yet?", which is a big negative, suddenly buying a 5800X3D seems a much more attractive proposal for 9 out of 10 people instead.

 

[marios15]

20-25% IPC, major new architecture, the biggest change since Zen, slightly higher clocks than Zen 4, more L1 and L2 cache. Sounds nice but I doubt it can compete against Arrow Lake.

Welcome to 2023 time traveler.

 

[Robin Seina]

It is just a GIGAduck... The gigabyte already changed that statement. Zen5 is still slated for 2024

 

[tfdsaf]

Is AMD clearly on "the back foot"? They have the best enterprise processors, the 3d v-cache chips have regained the gaming crown, Zen4 is way more efficient, the Zen4 mobile line seems to be better than Intel in both performance and efficiency....and all of this while AMD has an R&D budget less than a third of Intel's.....to me that would be considered to be performing pretty well, even "punching way above their weight class". I think the "back foot" perception is based upon the double standard people set on AMD....everyone expects AMD to not only deliver a superior product, but to do so at a much, much, much cheaper price...which is literally impossible. AMD can't win at performance AND charge less and all while competing against two companies that have access to way more financial resources than AMD.

As for as Zen4, prices have come down substantially on CPUs and now budget motherboard options are available. DDR5 has come down enough in price so that Zen4 not working with DDR4 isn't really an issue anymore either. Laid out like that, I dont see how AMD is on their back foot...they're simultaneously competing against two, much larger opponents and still offer some of the best products around and they continue to grab enterprise market share which is the most lucrative x86 segment.

***I've read multiple leaks from different sources that claim Zen5 will have 16 cores per CCD, and that Turin will have 256 cores...weather those are Zen5 or Zen5C cores, I'm not sure, but without a node shrinks and 16 cores per CCD, we're looking at at least 192 cores based on a 12 chiplet configuration like Genoa, although if they do got to 3nm like has been claimed, they might be able to fit 16 chiplets in the Turin package and there's your 256 cores....so Zen5C could be even more, maybe 384 cores, but that's pure speculation.

Let's also remember that Zen4 and Zen5 are developed by two different teams and that Zen5 was ALREADY in development long before Zen4 was even released. So, it very well could be that Zen5 could be available that soon after Zen4. It seems more likely that Zen5 originally being released in 2024 was probably a CHOICE by AMD to ensure enough Zen4 sales rather than a constraint dictated by development or TSMC availability.

If they do add more cores to the CCD it is likely to be 10 or 12 cores, rather than 16. It would be extremely expensive to sell a 8600 for $200 which has 16 cores, but 8 are disabled and I'm assuming the 8600 will have 8 cores, 2 more than the current gen!

Or more likely they stick with the current CCD and introduce a "weaker" CCD with smaller cores, probably 4 cores and just add however small cores they want to improve performance in applications, while using only 8 fast cores for games!

 

[TumbleGeorge]

What Jim Keller talk about AMD ZEN 5? +30% general performance up?